It would be far better to eradicate all welfare; at the moment it is not being used for that purpose.
I can agree with the premise that those that are better off should pay their own Medical etc, but on the other hand, it is those that have been burdened with the Taxation drain, and in all honesty, Federal, State and now local Governments are fast becoming organized crime rackets, which throw crumbs out to make it look like they care and have done something.
White Collar crime should be dealt with harsher penalties; so far even to force surrender of assets and Ill begotten wealth through fraud and theft, Include Politicians and Public servants of all descriptions in there also.
I can not see any class distinction what so ever in anyone’s posts that think and veirmantly disagree to Tristins socialist construct.
The supposed middle class in numbers is far less than the greater numbers that claim to be disadvantaged, making it easier for the lazy and the thoughtless to drain the resources in it self is criminal negligence. And that is compounding in numbers.
When it comes to allocating money to the real needy and those who are more specific in it’s distribution, find there is nothing left to be given; It has already been looted by the Lazy selfishness and the depravity of the a new age parasites. That is why the compounding effect will out grow normality. You see that in Skilled Employment, Crime figures, etc. There is a lot of Linguistic manipulation and basically a lot of liars ruling the roust.
It would not matter how much money Governments had, the end result will always be the same, nothing but misery.

Col

Most negatively geared investors are like a person in a leaky boat. Each of the leaks represents an outgoing for holding costs such as council rates, water rates, repairs and body corporate contributions. They are busily supporting their investments with their other income in a bid to keep their financier from calling in their loan. Their investments do not support themselves. What happens if they lose their job or are sick or injured for a long time?

Positively geared properties provide cash flow which is more predictable and stable than negative gearing or relying on the slow returns on capital gain.

At least you can see there is a difference in this type of investment and shares. While I find you cold and arrogant I have always thought you reasonably intelligent – perhaps you’ll just say anything to try and score points in a debate.

On blackmarket and sales tax (rolling eyes) yes I know. GST was supposed to solve blackmarket – as if.

I note that by your silence on the subject you must tacitly approve of white collar fraud and middle class welfare. If this is true why do you begrudge assistance to the unemployed or ill? - Majority of us don't stay unemployed or ill and can contribute to economy again, as I have done.

Dearest Col,

You wrote: “Re ” what will happen if we all take the “opportunity for equality” you seem to believe exists?”

No one is stopping you or anyone else from taking advantage of every opportunity which falls at your feet, (except your own fears).”

Once again, instead of answering the question you use diversionary tactics, make baseless assertions about me or others, and above all, completely fail to support your own argument. If you can’t make a sound case for your own argument, why should anyone bother to accept it?

As you refuse to make a satisfactory case, we will have to assume that you have conceded that your argument is unsupportable. Just as your claim to self-reliance is baseless, your example of services to remote areas is ridiculous and your “tall” person analogy proves nothing. And you accuse me of having nothing of worth to contribute.

You wrote: “Tao wrote “.... particularly as they are not actually producing anything which is useful to humankind (entertaining maybe).’

Which equates to suggesting some people produce “nothing of worth””

Sorry Col, but useful means “able to be used advantageously, beneficially, or for several purposes; helpful or serviceable”. Sportspeople don’t produce anything useful to humankind, although as I said, it is entertaining.

“Worth” has a number of meanings, including value, merit, high quality or excellence. I did not suggest that sportspeople (or anyone) doing their best was not of any value or merit, or that what they were doing was not of high quality or excellence.

I think you’d better take some lessons in the use of the English language.

Cont...

...Cont

You wrote “Neither you nor I nor any government or bureaucrat in government is sufficiently and competently qualified to judge how much a sportsperson, pop star, corporate executive or any other person should be allowed to earn.

The difference is, I and others who hold similar views to mine have the humility and personal insight to accept we do not know.

You, conversely, like most narcissi, embody such pretentious arrogance that you proclaim that some people who earn alot more than you “produce nothing of worth”. “

No, the difference between us Col, is that you “embody such pretentious arrogance” that you use your unsupported ideological drivel to justify a situation where the majority of people in this world do not have enough food, clothing, shelter, medical care or clean water, while a minority have access to all of the benefits of human endeavour. This is defending the indefensible, and denies the reality whereby sportspeople can do what they do professionally, and others can earn high incomes, only because there are a multitude of people supporting their material existence.

You and your ilk carry on about “responsibility” and “self-reliance” and “individual effort” but abrogate all responsibility for your actions and actions of those you apologise for, handing it over to “market forces” as though the market is some God which is out of our control and has the power to give life and death. Then you assert that those who end up (or start) on the wrong side of those market forces are entirely responsible for their situation.

Your ideology is no better than organized religion justifying the divine right of monarchs, aristocracy and clergy and casting the rest as sinners. And when confronted with the unsound nature of the assumptions by which you live your life, which are no better supported than the word of God, you resort to puerile nonsense.

Negative geared investors are free to invest where they want. Obviously a lot of people “get it” and see the term benefits otherwise they would invest elsewhere.

Your assertion of “Gearing is nothing more than a scam on the tax system.” Has now turned to suggesting that those who freely choose negative gearing investment strategies are some sort of victim with “Their investments do not support themselves.”

What do you care that someone can see beyond their next meal far enough to “get it”.

As for “What happens if they lose their job or are sick or injured for a long time?”

Plenty of people “over gear” to invest beyond their means, it is called dumb greed.
If someone cannot afford to carry a negative geared investments, then do not go into them, same goes for part paid share subscriptions, if you cannot the obligation, don’t buy in. Exactly the same applies with even greater consequences to being one of the “names” at Lloyds insurance.

Realists realised GST was not going to eliminate the black economy. The ATO have far better commercial intelligence on which jobs roles scamming and by how much, partly due to the amount of detail collected on BAS statements.

Tao, what you find “Satisfactory” in terms of presenting cases is a matter of complete irrelevance. You are simply being argumentative and have failed to answer my earlier requests, when you called yourself Tristan, to explain why you believe we are here to pay tax rather than have a satisfying life. How about exercising some honesty.

Your quest to enslave everyone under your will of “everyone forced to exist under Tristans Rule” will not get past the starting line.

Nice hissing fits on me viz the divine right of Kings. It is something similar to authoritarian monarchy or religious dictates which you would seek to impose. Dictatorship of the proletariat, damn the Kulaks, starve them to death, like Stalin.

FACT - Everything which I promote diametrically opposes the notions of Divine Right of Kings and stands squarely against all forms of religious or authoritarian social orders.

Col’s modus operandi is not to study other’s posts – he is at risk of learning something if he did. His method is to scan for what he believes is any weakness or a statement he believes he can contradict.

For example, he stated that people who invest in negative gearing and become ill lose out due to their own ‘dumb greed’. Is this an admission that negative gearing is indeed greedy? In which case, Col must be assumed to be greedy as he advocates this form of investment.

Apparently, in Col’s world, people are supposed to predict illness or accident. Or is it simply another example of Col’s ‘blame the victim’ mentality?

Whatever, Col's claim to be self reliant is a flawed philosophy. There is no such thing as complete self reliance. At one time Col was a helpless baby; in his future, as for all of us, he will become feeble and old. Where will his self reliance be then? In the meantime I assume he doesn’t need roads, electricity, food, water or even friendship.

He may well claim that due to his (self confessed) greedy manipulations he has enough money to ensure an independent old age. Just how independent can one be in a nursing home waiting on a nurse to wipe his backside? Meanwhile his family squabble over his ‘fortune’.

On another thread Col stated he did not trust government as his interests were in competition with 20 million other Australians. This was very revealing. Col has no faith in democracy AND he sees himself apart from the rest of us. While I don’t believe that Col is a true psychopath, he does display the characteristics of a narcissist. As a result, this bias permeates all of his posts - self absorbed, self obsession.

I note, also, that Col has yet to veto middle class welfare and white collar crime. Perhaps, even Col recognises the hypocrisy if he did so