Scout, this morning I went to a meeting of a group, trying to
establish a biodiesel plant. Before they can do
anything, they will need a host of permits and licenses and pay
heaps for them. It was mentioned that a grant was available.
If I had my way, we would all be better off without all the Govt
red tape and costs, as well as without the grants.

Let me explain my position. If I had my way, everyone would
be treated the same. Tristan’s position was that workers should
pay more tax, I strongly disagree. Govt does not spend money
wisely enough, for us to give them any extra. 40+% of GDP is
more then enough. If those that do work don’t have an incentive,
they simply won’t bother and your golden goose is gone,
something which people like Tristan and Tao don’t understand.

Yes, more money is spent on detecting welfare fraud then other
fraud, because welfare expenditure is also so much greater
then other expenditure. If you related fraud detection to Govt
expenditure, the picture would look quite different. But I agree
that all fraud should be exposed.

I don’t believe your story of the few in welfare fraud. The experience
that I have in my community, is that a great many on welfare see
any kind of work as optional. In WA, where the economy
is simply booming and employers are screaming for labour, a whole
stack of people have decided as a lifestyle choice, not to bother with
getting out of bed in the morning. They get away with it under one
excuse or the other, yet when cash is offered, they are willing to work
immediately lol.


Most middle class welfare goes to people with kids, prepared to help themselves.
Why should I object to that? I do object to people who screw the system
because its so easily screwable and don’t do their share. Certainly in
my community, its extremely common. I refuse to accept that taxes on
the average worker should be higher, to make life even easier for those
people.

Yabby,

“If those that do work don’t have an incentive,
they simply won’t bother and your golden goose is gone,
something which people like Tristan and Tao don’t understand.”

There is a very good reason for this. Tao is Tristan’s alter ego … necessarily emerging after Tristan successfully paints himself into a corner. I recognise those hyphens anywhere.

Scout, I am wearing my accountant hat. The exact same rules of accrual accounting for income, expenditure, assets and liabilities, apply to trading in the supply of rental property (be it negative or positive gearing) as apply to trading in shares, as applies to selling ice cream from a van, groceries from a supermarket or electrical TV’s in an electrical store.

Each media of trade has a income, expense, asset retained values (be it ice cream stock, unsold electrical equipment, ripe bananas and tin of beans, share certificates or real estate) and possibly borrowed liabilities (bank overdraft, trade credit or a house mortgage).

Your idea of apples versus oranges is infantile rubbish.

Seeker you are right on the assent of tao following Tristans cowardly decline.

Now Tao /Tristan

You said “Of course we shouldn’t discourage sportspeople to do their best, but we don’t need to pay them millions while others starve - particularly as they are not actually producing anything which is useful to humankind (entertaining maybe).”

Neither you nor I nor any government or bureaucrat in government is sufficiently and competently qualified to judge how much a sportsperson, pop star, corporate executive or any other person should be allowed to earn.

The difference is, I and others who hold similar views to mine have the humility and personal insight to accept we do not know.

You, conversely, like most narcissi, embody such pretentious arrogance that you proclaim that some people who earn alot more than you “produce nothing of worth”.

From what I have read of your "ideology", there is nothing of worth that you have or are ever likely to contribute either. The difference between you and a football star is, whilst thousands of people are paying to see sports stars, whilst no one is likely to pay you.

Thank God you at least recognise that you could not promote your views to a voting public. You will save yourself the public humiliation and ridicule. It is a shame Latham did not show similar foresight in his pursuit of similar egoistic political grandeur before he imploded.

Actually Yabby and Seeker,

I don't agree with Tristan much at all.

Tristan believes capitalism can, and should, be tinkered with to make it "fairer" in order to save it from itself. I don't.

Fundamental difference.

Now Col,

On the one hand you say that narcissi proclaim that people produce “nothing of worth”.

And then you proclaim that I have “nothing of worth” to contribute.

Who is the narcissist?

Furthermore I don’t believe I have used the words “produce nothing of worth”. Your own counterargument cannot be very convincing if you have to invent an argument to attack.

Again it is interesting that you choose not to address any of the more serious issues I have raised.

For example, what will happen if we all take the “opportunity for equality” you seem to believe exists?

One wonders why, if you have such a great life as you constantly trumpet to us, you bother spending so much of your precious “valuable” time engaging in such inane, vacuous and malicious point scoring.

In all seriousness, read this link for an explanation for a Theosophical perspective, on how some believe it to be; "Dependance on the State"; and the to control the masses and their minds. Lets not forget; "The what driver" of their Egos.
http://majorityrights.com/index.php/forums/viewthread/124/

Nothing like a good Exorcism. Ha.