Yes King.. I also would not normally meet.. or more accurately, meet and be able to engage in such conversations as this.
If I tried it by door knocking, I would be given the short shift :) I'm sure.
But that is the beauty of the net. All we have to do is 'not' click on this or that thread. We are less threatened, and hence speak our hearts more bravely.

Keiran.. u poor sod.. :) muddling around in your teddy land there. Mate.. 'democracy' alone is NOT the answer to human social organization.

1/ Without some restraining values framework, giving ultimate purpose, it will degenerate into the squabble for power by those who have nothing better to do with their short lives.

2/ Democracy, good as it is in theory, usually ends up with an elite oligarchy where vested interest drives the agenda's of the major political parties. i.e. its about selfishness, greed and gratification.

3/ Sometimes, a simple democracy will be at the mercy of a totalitarian state, where the decision to goto war against some other state is made without reference to the will of the people. Then, even when Hitler is climbing up the cliffs of Dover, there will be 'anti war' morons in street bleating about not annoying him and how stupid war is.

Democracy without the preserving salt and the light of Christian values will destroy itself in a short time.

I truly believe you (atheist) blokes have either no clue about just where society would go or.. perhaps you prefer it that way, if you do, then I feel like pointing the bone at you. If u just don't realize, then I feel sorry for u because what is coming will overtake and consume u and ur famililes.

In conclusion, I believe we need a 3rd evangelical awakening, not a humanist revival.

BD - "In conclusion, I believe we need a 3rd evangelical awakening, not a humanist revival."

You go work on your evangelical awakening and we'll work on the humanist revival.

You might have to get a bit braver about challenging corruption within the church for your part though. Your approach of being ever so gentle with "christians" and confronting with non-christains seems to be a reverse of the NT model, that might be why you have so little progress. Have a read of the NT sometime looking at who the harsh words were targetted at.

Clean up your own backyard and your complaints about the neighbours lawns not being trimmed as well as they could be might make more sense.

R0bert

Philo is spiralling down with his lousy efforts to paint me as some type of law breaker and a user of powerful central nervous system stimulants. It is not hard to see where this faulty assessment originates but it's very, very, funny indeed and we all collapse laughing over that one.

Perhaps I've had one parking infringement in my life as a law abiding citizen. It's also so boring and seemingly a waste of time when I say I drink a half dozen cups of green tea a day and on the odd occasion olive leaf tea. I take a tablespoon of extra virgin olive oil and eat ten pekan nuts a day. Over twelve months perhaps a handful of beers .... so really no alcohol. No prescribed pills or tablets, preparations of any kind....... pretty boring isn't it ......... in my whole life I've never found the need for drugs as stimulants and only rarely has it been necessary for one or two panadols. I count my blessing every day that I remain healthy and somewhat intoxicated with life. Have always played sport and like being active... physically, mentally and participatory.

My life is about raising my consciousness, and not developing a conscience if that can be understood intelligently. The former is a thirst to understand the nature of my/our being while the later is born out of emotional blackmail by religious (teddy) cheerleaders. Probably harder to understand for the teddy infected types is that this blind attachment to moral behaviour is one of the major causes of crime in every shape and form.

Philo says ... "Moral democracy". Never heard of it. Sensitivity, judgment, initiative, imagination, reasoning, communication and even persuasion are part of consciousness and necessary for consciousness building in a democracy.

Yes, these somewhat nasty personal attacks by the christians are the last resort by some who cannot deal with the more weighty spiritual and philosophical issues of life. Others revert to infantile regurgitation of bible verse to achieve the same end.

It is not just Christians but also Feminist, Marxist, green, etc. ideologies when adopted by undergraduate zealots that do the same thing . But those young people grow out of their closed immature mentalities with time, some rejecting their ideologies alltogether and others going deeper into the ideological essences, exploring contradictions and paradox while rejecting trivial dogma. The difference here is it is easy to transcend a university text book, but the christians worship the text book and moving on requires a more traumatic psychological shift similar to the psychological "rebirth" that entrenched the textbook in their subconscious in the first place. This re-re-birth can be terrifying as an open mind can lead directly to rejection by peers and loved ones.

The drive to proslytize is not based on love compassion and connection, as Jesus taught, it only fulfills egoic responsibilities to ideological imperitives, for the edification of the evangelist not the "subject" (more accurately "object").

Robert, the very nature of a Spirit led awakening is JUST that... it reaches into the hearts of 'religious' people and turns them .. touching on all the secret sins and pet attitudes which are unbiblical, and produces repenetance at the deepest level.
Read about Evan Roberts etc.. (Wales)

King.. your point about young undergraduates growing out of their trendy ideologies etc is quite valid, but not for a mature Christian who's faith is grounded and rooted in Christ.

You seem to be ignoring the reality of Christ and the Apostles, including Paul, and choosing to neglect that which is before your eyes. Rather, turning away to something of your own choice, which in the end will prove empty and futile.

Some of the most precious words in the New Testament are:

"You, who were once far off, have now been drawn near in the blood of Christ" (Eph 2:13)

I see you there, in the distance, lost, wandering.. aimless...like so many, taking the 'wide road'.....

I recommend you read the whole chapter of Ephesians2 ..it might scratch where you are really itching.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=56&chapter=2&version=31

Cheers

“…the reality of Christ and the Apostles, including Paul, and choosing to neglect that which is before your eyes. Rather, turning away to something of your own choice, which in the end will prove empty and futile.”

Feel free to ignore me BD (as you usually do) but can you point to the evidence of ‘the reality’ please? Grant me some opportunity to see the reality. What evidence do you have to support your claim?

And substantiate the empty and futile something else that you say exists for King, R0bert and others like them… please.