Bronwyn and Alchemist

I have to point out (for the umpteenth time) that the reason there are not Christian 'suicide bombers' is exactly as (The non Christian) Redneck said: it is against our FAITH and against the teaching of Christ.

A person is a 'Christ'ian when Christ is in their hearts and lives.
Not because they have a green card for the USA.

This is the problem with so many observers, they fail to distinguish between the different foundations of Christ and Mohammed.

If u fail to do this, your conclusions will be spurious, just as Alchemists and Bronwyns are.

When 'Christians' begin a guerilla movement to destroy the state because it fails to uphold 'Mosaic Law' you can clearly say "They are disobeying the teaching and example Christ and their faith is highly questionable"

Such is not the case with Mohammed and Islam, in this case, the worst you can say is... wait.. there is nothing to say.

"Fight them wherever you find them" ('those attacking the Muslims')

....and of course, 'attacking muslims' can be anywhere, anytime and is open to an interpretation which could conceivably include a Non Muslim Bank manager foreclosing on their home. (yes, I'm serious) The sura and verse I quoted above is specifically about those who have 'forced the Muslims out of their dwellings'. Sura 2:191
While this interpretation might seem a bit of a stretch, it is not too much to say that anyone harrassing, making life hard,persecuting Muslims is not 'attacking' Muslims.- does it matter if you attack with a sword, an m16 or a foreclosure notice ? The result is the same.

God help the Bank manager who forecloses on a radical/fundamentalist Muslim with a large extended family !

The point of course, is that once you 'set in concrete' the principles of war as in the Quran, you are able to apply them as Muslims.

All we need is a Benbrika or a 'Dr Hook' from the UK and next thing u know, we have people arrested on suspicion of planning to assassinate our PM and his family !

Hi y'all,
Paul Hill. Look him up. The notion that suicide is against the christian faith is, maybe, debatable: could Jesus have avoided or come down from the cross? That murder is against the christian faith is, maybe, less debatable. Paul Hill is not the only one: Eric Rudolph, Michael Griffin. But one counter-example is all it takes to knock out the argument on logic. On balance of probabilities as a ground we need to go to total populations, numbers of offenders, and history: not so easy and beyond my time availability at the moment. And, texts out of context remain pretexts, regardless of source or target. Thankfully, as far as I know, Australia is not following America in this, yet.

Social cohesion is a tricky business. Vilifying anyone (on one OED definition: To lower or lessen in worth or value; to reduce to a lower standing or level; to make of little (or less) account or estimation.) is to devalue someone on some basis, i.e. to make them worth less than the vilifier. I find it difficult to see this as a viable right in a society that views people as equal before the law and as citizens (to the extent that they are citizens). It allows me to say X is worth less than me or my group, and therefore,their voice should not be heard. Insult, mock, lampoon, satirise, argue with, disagree with, yes; vilify, probably not.

odsoc

odsoc

To Ms. Bronwyn.

The culture of the North European Protestant people has been the most successful on this planet while Islam has been an unmitigated disaster. So spreading “Christian influence”, “democracy” and “wealth creating opportunities” through military means does not seem such a bad idea to me. But if you believe that the US government has been taken over by Christian fundamentalists who want to spread Christianity by the sword, then I think that you should have a Bex, a cup of tea, and a good lie down. The Christian/atheist world is having fun while the Islamic world walking backwards into the future, which is exactly what the Christians want. The Christians want the Muslims to keep stuffing everything up.

But getting back to Greg Barn’s original premise, there is no valid comparison between Christian fundamentalist terrorism and Muslim fundamentalist terrorism. I know about the attacks on abortion clinics and the staff of those clinics, but these attacks are more the work of individual psychos than organised groups. If such groups do exist, they are not even national, much less international.

I can see that you are another trendy who is making excuses for Islamic terrorism. Good. Good. Please keep it up. Don’t forget to link your opinions with “the three R’s” (Reconciliation, Republic and Refugees). It helps us Rednecks heaps.

I am a right wing gun nut who resents my people’s land being invaded by Muslims. I resent my people’s resources being looted by Muslims. I resent my culture being polluted by giant multimedia organisations that create music, movies, TV shows and computer games which glamourise violence, profanity, and criminal behaviour, and then specifically engineer their marketting to appeal to our children. Using the same logic you use to justify Muslim terrorism, if I engage in terrorism to fight against these social evils, am I a freedom fighter too?

The only thing that you got right was that Muslims do not value their earthly life. You betcha they don’t. Our system has given us a life worth living. Theirs is just a religion of death.

Dear Odsoc

Paul Hill

Presbyterian minister who was executed for murdering an abortion clinic doctor.

Can you help me out here and provide some scriptural foundation for 'murder' ?

I can show you something "against" it:

21"You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'Do not murder,[a] and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.' 22But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother[b]will be subject to judgment.

I think ALL of us are under judgement on that one.. including you ?

Your comment on Jesus death surprised me a bit, I tend to assume people actually understand His death in context but clearly this is not the case.

From Isaiah 53:

5 But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was upon him,
and by his wounds we are healed.

6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
each of us has turned to his own way;
and the LORD has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.

Odsoc, do you realize 'you' (and I) are part of that "all" ?

From Jesus

45For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many."

You know, the very first thing Jesus taught His disciples after they realized he is 'The Christ' (Mark 8.27-29) was this:

31He then began to teach them that the Son of Man must
suffer many things and
be rejected by the elders, chief priests and teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and
after three days rise again.

32He spoke plainly about this, and Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him.

Why did Peter rebuke Him ? I guess he was a lot like us. We dont LIKE a sacrificial, giving,serving "Messiah" we want a powerful, hero type who will rid us of either John Howard or the Tax office or Al Queda etc..I urge you (and all) to consider your position regarding the real Christ.

Bronwyn said:

"The average Muslim fundamentalist who just happens to resent his people's land and resources, not to mention their minds, being taken over by Western imperialist and capitalist forces has no such luxury. His only weapon is the fact he doesn't value his earthly life the way we do in the west."

Maybe its you who is standing next ot him on the bus when he explodes his backpack. He doesn't value your life either. Perhaps that would be justice.

I swear its fools like you will get us all killed.

"There is no inherent right, nor should there be, for a person's religious or political beliefs to be quarantined from criticism, condemnation or even vilification" Greg writes against this veiw.

it would seem to me the author's argument is ridiculous, as the author is actually vilifieing the MP the above quote came from. He is vilifying (criticising) his political beliefs in an article saying that one cannot vilify peoples beliefs? What is the world coming to?

Has any Christian terrorist attack killed over three thousand in one go. Have they even killed three thousand in total over the past one hundred years? Islam likes to keep at this level for each and every year. And that american and western army you guys say is run by the christian west, oh that's right, they are the ones helping out the black muslims who the arab muslims are slaughtering in the Sudan. Oh, thats right, they were also the ones who ended up stopping the slaughter of bosnian muslims after the wider UN let them be slaughtered in front of their eyes