Froggie, understanding that monotheistic believers are absolutely petrified of not only being wrong, but of not having power, is a good start. They refuse to even consider, that there are other ways of running society than those that have failed in the past.

It's because they can't see forward, only back. Agnostics are those that have a foot in every camp, and I think thats an excellent approach, as it allows you to be open to what is, may be and may not be in front of us for the eternal future.

Christian views are exactly the same as islam, thats what frightens them so. The same goes for islam, they see a reflection of themselves in christianity so want to destroy it. Pretty warped really, but throughout their history, they have always been the same.

If you look at it from a psychological viewpoint, it is a classic case of those possessed by illusions reacting violently to anything that denies their delusion. If religion didn't have so much power, we would probably lock them all up as unstable and a danger to the community. Because of their violent desire to impose their illusions on the population and disrupt society. Which they are doing now. So our mental health approach has failed and we have an epidemic of out of control deluded monotheistics running round the world screaming, I'm peaceful, and I'll destroy your society to prove it.

Religions idea of secular, is we agree and accept it, as long as we control it our way. A very intelligent approach to life. You see it is the religious that only reflect the one opinion, god

Agree Alchemist.We humans are just too arrogant.We assume too much.There well may be a supreme consciousness but we may not be all that important in the scheme of things as we presume.I have yet to see any evidence of our consciousness existing before birth or beyond the grave.
Religion serves a purpose of giving us the comfort of a protective father figure and fear of breaking moral codes and laws,but it does not teach us how to deal with the reality of survival.

Religions don't have all the answers nor do the aethiests.Religion must remain separate from state since faith is based on our desire to to surpass this mortal existence,and desire does not mix well with logic.

Well it looks like Irans largest newspaper "Hamshahri" is running a competition on humour on the holocaust to see if the West truly believes in the freedom of the press as I suspected in one of my earlier posts... Hey I am setting the world's agenda from OLO...lol or I am psychic...Ha!.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,251-2027749,00.html

As I said in an earlier post whilst I may or may not find these cartoons offensive when I see them I WON'T be protesting them, or be burning the Iranian Flag, or taking the paper to the UN for discrimination... I will just think that particular paper is silly for doing it. I believe the extermination of 6,000,000 people is not funny.

But I will also remember this... Just because some Muslims may find the cartoons, once they are completed, funny ... many Muslims will ignore them and keep on with their lives.

So in the end if everyone remains sensible it will just be a silly exercise.

Will these cartoons help the Muslims who live in the camps of course not! Will it help the West understand Muslims better... No. Will they help Iran...No! Will they add to the stereotyping of Muslims... probably but not with me or people who think like me. Hopefully most of us will not judge the Muslim religion or people based on this papers competition.

Will it test our concept of freedom of the press ... No!

An Aussie cartoonist "Leunig" has already had one of his cartoons used. The Age newspaper is apparently seeking legal advice on it's use as it had rejected publication of this cartoon.

Scroll down it appears here http://www.farisqc.observationdeck.org/
- to some it may be offensive but to me it is just one man's commentary... big deal.

It looks like we are in a tit for tat battle to see who can create the silliest, unfunny cartoons.

We can only watch and wait!

Some Iranians are being manipulative or ignorant about these cartoons.

They were about a religious icon, the holocaust is about humans, a man-made atrocity. There was no divinity about it, it was a man leading a killing program against people he called Jews. You can joke about it if you want to.

It's illegal in germany to deny the holocaust precisely because 'germany' did it and it doesn't want us to think that a) it's pretending it didn't happen or it wasn't responsible, b) to say sorry to jews and c) so that such orchestrated hate might never happen again (i.e. those who forget history are doomed to repeat it).

However, historians debate the islamic myth and the christian myth because nobody has provided (so far) any rock-solid evidence (as opposed to biblical or koranic hearsay) that either of the two dudes mentioned ever walked the earth.

As for the sad sacks waiting for us to get all flag-burny about a local cartoon competition - dream on, the 'joke' has already happened you fools. What about the 1969 monty python 'lampshade' sketch in which a Mr Hitler runs for the North Minehead by-election?

The sketch contains barbs for everyone today plus it reveals how that scholar Mr Ahmadinejad hasn't caught up to even a rudimentary understanding of where Western culture was 35 years ago, let alone now in the 21c. (Let's not even consider the Merchant of Venice (1600), he's probably not up to that yet).

"Johnson: How long are you down here for, Mr. Hilter. Just the fortnight?

Hitler: (shouting) Why do you ask that? Are you a spy or something? (drawing revolver) Get over there against the wall Britischer pig, you're going to die!

Von Ribbentrop and Himmler grab Hitler and calm him.

Von Ribbentrop: I'm sorry Mr. Johnson, he's a bit on edge. He hasn't slept since 1945.

"Landlady: Telephone, Mr. Hilter, it's that nice Mr. McGoering from the Bell and Compasses. He says he's found a place where you can hire bombers by the hour.

Hitler: If he opens his big mouth again...it's lampshade time!"

http://www.pythonland.com/episode12.ph

I think its vital in light of the present debate to correct a very important mistake in a previous post, a mistake which could entirely effect the course of human affairs. Some of you may have noticed it, but to be absolutely clear, I point it out for the record and in the interest of the public good. The link to episode twelve of MPFC is http://www.pythonland.com/episode12.php

The recent German cartoon with the Iranian football players is an example of the stupidity behind the joke. Yes it's funny once, twice even. I dunno... To me, it makes as much sense as showing Jesus Christ presiding over the Abu Ghraib abuses and Guantanamo Bay prison. I wonder what drama a series of cartoons like this would create in the the USA's "Bible Belt" states.