Wow, J kenno, you've been in the mental ward at long bay and tried to get internet access for inmates, I bet that was frightening for you. I've seen many complete uni courses in Jail, its called correspondence courses. Internet access, security requirements,. you may as well give them nights out at the pub.

Some of the jails I've been involved in, Pentridge, Cooma, Long bay remand, max, low. Goulburn max, protection and tracs, laurel hill and Tumbarrumba. I haven't been involved since the early 80”s, but know exactly what its like in there, the restriction, effects and lifestyle. I've spoken to hundreds of inmates, admin, security, parole and psych, sections, helped write appeals, paroles, transfers and personal problems.

Prevention is better than any accidental death. If people are educated properly, instead of being told they have the right to do what they want, by the PC controlled schools. If they had it drummed into them, that if they cause death or injury, rob, assault. They will go to jail to be educated in being more responsible, if they don't listen at school, then bad luck.

I went to war at 18, try being smart there. Once you can conduct your life separate from your parents in socialising, then your responsible for your actions. Anything else, your an uneducated fool.

A car is a deadly weapon, its the same as saying, I didn't know the gun was loaded after you'd aimed it and pulled the trigger. What's different, to a car driven at high speed on a road. They both kill, A car not only kills but also creates lots of collateral damage, pain and suffering. So give them guns, they'll only shoot one, not kill and maim lots or destroy property.

Make them pay for the damage they do, that'll slow crime down. Make people pay economically and personally, as their victims and families do for the rest of their lives.

Jkenno,

Something else we also disagree on is what constitutes a ‘mistake’. If you think that killing one person and maiming two others whilst driving dangerously and not in accordance with the law is a ‘mistake’, then I can safely say that I have not made such a mistake.

People don’t fall foul of the law just by making a mistake. And “compassion and forgiveness” don’t come into the law. That’s a matter for the victims and the families of this particular young lunatic.

Your question: “And Leigh – is your theory that everyone who commits a mistake in life is ‘uncaring’ and ‘criminal’ by default?” again assumes that causing death by dangerous driving – or what ever the charge that was the culprit jailed was for – was a ‘mistake’. This girl knew she was doing the wrong thing. I would say that she did not care at all about the lives of her passengers, other road users or herself. And, yes, she is a criminal, and that is why she is in jail.

“Jail does nothing for an offender”, you say. The idea is not to do something for the offender, it is to do something TO the offender. It is a punishment, pure and simple. And, if they don’t learn from deprivation of their liberty and re-offend, make the sentences longer and longer until they do learn. If necessary, bring back the lash.

Alchemist – if you follow any trends in modern education, you will know that the majority of university courses conducted by correspondence now necessitate the use of computers and the internet. Note that the prisoners weren’t allowed to even use the word processing in a low-security area. Now explain to me the rationale again? Surely we want to rehabilitate a prisoner so when they come back in to society they will have real life options so they will not commit crimes again?

I don’t doubt your experience in jails mate, but don’t patronise me. I do agree that kids need to be educated. But I see little point in not doing everything we can do to rehabilitate people who do commit crimes.

Contrary to popular opinion, the amount of jail time being given out is drastically increasing. About 1 in 600 adults in NSW are in jail, which has doubled since 1986 (NSW Dep of Corrective Services). Ever since the introduction of guideline judgements in 1998, the length of sentences have increased. Now, if jail was such a big deterrent, you’d think the jail population would be decreasing, wouldn’t you?? At 30 June 2005, 60% of prisoners in Australian jails had served a sentence prior to the current episode (ABS). A review of 111 studies which looked at the relationship between various punishments and repeat offending concluded that "harsher criminal justice sanctions had no deterrent effects on recidivism; that compared to community sanctions, imprisonment was associated with an increase in recidivism; and basically, the longer the sentence, the more likely was the prisoner to re-offend”.

So Leigh, in response to your assertion, the harder we get, the more crimes people are going to commit, according to the statistics. I do agree though. Punishment should do something to any offender. It should teach them the consequences of their actions to ensure they do not do it again, and rehabilitate them so when they return to society, there is little chance of them making the wrong choices again. Incarceration, it appears, does the reverse

And in the news, just in time for comparison:

From: http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200602/s1566900.htm

Teen in serious condition after shooting
A teenage girl is in a serious but stable condition in hospital after being accidentally shot in Sydney's south-west.

The 16-year-old received a bullet to the stomach at a house at Cartwright last night.

Blake Clifton from police headquarters says an 18-year-old man has been charged over the incident.

"An 18-year-old man from Cartwright attended Green Valley police station and was questioned by detectives," he said.

"He was subsequently charged with causing danger with firearm and a negligent act causing grievous bodily harm."

We shall see how long this young man gets in gaol. Or do all of you who want to see the killer driver walk free also want to see this young man walk free? What is the difference between a car and a gun when they both kill 'accidently'.

Hamlet

No one has wanted the young girl in this article to walk off scot-free. Where did you get this idea? Some of us see that vengeance and retribution as suitable punishment, others see that punishmnet would be more effective if it included rehabilitation and a chance for redemption.

After all, at some point in time these young people will be released back into society and expected to behave responsibly. The onus is on us to minimise the chances of recidivism and maximise the chance of redemption.

Does the Judge play golf with her father?

I've copped high range penalties for defended public transit case several years ago. I was unrepresented, indigent, and denied legal aid. The bench was overtly hostile to me, unduly sympathetic to the prosecution team, and the matter took place in the western suburbs of Sydney.

Wonder if I had access to my family's resources and had legal representation commensurate with those resources would the outcome have been significantly different.

Our whole legal system is predicated upon class bias. In St Kilda a year ago, a prostitute was murdered by a former Olympian weightlifter who broke her cervical vertebra [neck]. His defence team inferred, inter alia, that the cause of death was possibly certain narcotics present in her toxicology screening post mortem. The jury rejected a verdict of Murder, came up with manslaughter instead, and he only got FIVE (5) years.

In our society unfortunately you're worth as much money as you've got. I've learnt the same when assaulted [near William Street after midnight] with a robbery attempt in the car of a suburban Auto Industry [sales/service] worker.