Scout

You really are emotive re this adult criminal.

Sometimes you call her a young offender, and other times you call her a criminal.

You seem to think that Hamlet and I are heartless. That is not so. Rather, we are objective. That is quite different.

Are you saying that it is OK to kill another human being - without any recompense?

I am not privy to any knowledge about this case, any more than you are. I am using commonsense.

Hamlet has extensive experience as a legal person, vis a vis, from what I have read of his postings on other threads. That does make him heartless.

This young woman deliberately chose to disobey the law of the land. She deliberately made that choice.

Hamlet and I have both said that she should not be gaoled forever - we have both agreed re weekend detention and counselling during the week.

I find it interesting that via her parents and her legal team, she has not made a public apology for her actions.

The parents of the person that she killed have said that she has not shown any remorse. What so you think about that?

If she had killed your daughter, would you be as compassionate?

Rehabilitation occurs after punishment for a crime. That is the reason it is called rehabilitation. Note that the key word is crime.

The notion of rehabilitation for illness related issues is an entirely different scenario.

I did not disparage you by name calling. Please re-read my previous post.

It seems that your personal experience is blurring your logic. In a previous post you said that you have been rehabilitated for something. Good on you.

As you say on other threads
Keep the balance
Cheers
Kay

Kalweb, Hamlet

It is only when I have become passionate that either of you have referred to rehabilitation - until then all you have spoken of has been vengeance.

Until your last two posts you have given the impression that there is no hope for these foolish young people. Yes, they have done wrong and yes there should be punishment, However, locking them up with hardened criminals without rehabilitation is just wasting more young lives.

And rehab should work in conjunction with punishment - it is not a reward it is a part of the process. The reward is re-entering society and becoming a functional member of it.

I do find you very judgemental - surely you have done things you regret. I know I have and, as such, do not judge people from media reports - I investigate as much as possible and keep an open mind as much as possible.

For example I would regard someone like Ivan Mulat (backpacker killer) as beyond redemption. But a young foolish person who has caused misery due to stupidity rather than intent deserves support - not vengeance.

Kalweb, stating things like "If she had killed your daughter, would you be as compassionate?" is a cheap shot. Of course I would be upset, however I have experienced enough life now to know that compassion is the best gift I can give any one and that vengeance only begats more vengeance - doesn't solve anything. This is why we have feuds between families and on a world scale why we still have wars. Simply because we can't sit down and work out a compromise.

I repeat - I do not know if this young woman can be rehabilitated or not. I do not know her. I do know that setting myself up as judge on a minimum of information is stupid. While I am not the smartest person to have lived I do try hard to be the best person I can be. I'll never be perfect - in fact I don't want to be (how boring!).

Scout, a hardened criminal is one that commits a crime of violence without remorse or fear of prosecution and recrimination. Fits pretty well with this woman and many others that use a car as a deadly weapon. Weekend detention, sorry I've dealt with people that have undergone that, in 90% of cases, they think of it as only an inconvenience and resent their time being restricted. So it rarely works.

However locking someone up, as soon as they are charged with causing death and keeping them them there for a period before trial, certainly makes them think about their actions. On the outside, they only think of themselves, never what they have done nor the consequences that may eventuate. Rehabilitation starts in jail, or its worthless.

As to them being locked up with real criminals, it appears to me that you are discriminating as to what a real criminal and violent crime is. I violent crime is when someone is hurt when they shouldn't have been in the act of someone breaking the law. Anything else is social and economic discrimination, but the PC's of the world support that, as they are the worst for prejudice and discrimination. Whats the difference between shooting someone and killing them with your car. Any difference is according to your prejudice and discriminating outlook.

Statistics saying the majority jailed become repeat offenders, is only because most that are locked up, are economically disadvantaged and resent the systems refusal to support them, as with the massive support the system gives to the economically and socially advantaged

Alchemist

I agree with what you say.

PLease read my post. I said: "And rehab should work in conjunction with punishment"

I have never stated that the young offenders should not be incarcerated. Sheesh!

I am concerned that their punishment will consist of being locked up with career criminals.

I only used Ivan Milat as an extreme expample to make a point about intent.

Clearly I must appear very ignorant and stupid. I will endeavour to make my posts so clear in future that even 3 year olds can follow them

Kay, Mostly I find your posts are a fair minded viewpoint, and agree with much of what you have said re this matter; I don't think that Scout's viewpoint is so very different. However you did write,
"You seem to think that Hamlet and I are heartless. That is not so. Rather, we are objective. That is quite different"
Yet in a previous post stated
"Stop blaming others because you are a selfish f*wit......I am sad for the family whose young daughter was killed by a horrible egocentric yuppie!"
If that is objective then I have missed something

Prisons need to be a place of rehabilitation. If there are no opportunities for rehabilitation, counseling and education taking place, then those entering prisons will be exposed to an environment conducive to negative conditioning.

Furthermore, when prisoners finish their sentence they will probably be more likely to re-offend, or be unable to re-adjust to society, placing further bourdon on the wider community.

As for the traffic laws, I think there's a lot of people out there breaking the rules, hooning around and taking no responsibility for their actions. To this I can only suggest a more preventative approach such as subsidised driver training and education programs, higher road-worthy standards, limiting the kind of vehicles teenagers can drive, introducing a driving curfew and getting a bit more serious about confiscations for even minor offenses such as burnouts.