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Minority religions and secular states : Comments
By Syed Atiq ul Hassan, published 1/2/2006Syed Atiq ul Hassan argues even if a society claims to be secular the majority will dominate: religiously, culturally and socially.
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Personally I'm fed up with all holidays, christian and otherwise. Christmas ends up lasting for about 2 months from November when the TV Ads, fake santas and office parties are launched into space like ballistic missles, costs a small fortune and is forced down our throats to put us all in debt and a high state of anxiety and mania. I hate the fact that I end up stuck in traffic jams at shopping centres for a week before xmas, and then can't get to the shops or do any business for another. The Islamic holidays are no better. People show up half heartedly to work during ramadan at around 11am and leave at 2pm for a whole month, and half of them are nearly fainting from hunger or unhealthy dehydration. No-one talks or does anything seriously about poverty, and once its over, they all turn into binge eaters for a few days. No-one talks seriously about making the world a better place (surely the point of all these religions in the first place) on either Christmas, Easter or the Eid as they're all too worried about their credit card debts, their bulging stomachs and whether they've gotten everyone a present.
Posted by minuet, Wednesday, 1 February 2006 9:31:39 PM
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Syed, thanks for a well written article, you raise some interesting points.
The holiday question has been explained by others, its simply a question of history. Most people use the time to forget about work for once and spend time with their families and friends. Religion hardly plays a role these days, in most peoples lives. The last figures that I saw, only about 8% of Aussies bother about going to a church. The figures are not that much different in Muslim countries. I gather that only about 23% of Iranians go to a mosque. People have other things in life that interest them far more. The problem with the devoutly religious of any faith, is that they make far more noise then their numbers would suggest. The silent majority stay silent, whilst the passionately religious noisely try to force us to live by their holy book. In Australia we are pretty fortunate, religion hardly plays a role in politics. Politicians are well aware that they could actually lose votes, if they are seen as religious nuts. The perfect democratic system is yet to evolve, where a number of religions can live in harmony together. Us secular humanists are fighting hard to have freedom of religion, but also freedom from religion. Keep religion as a lifestyle choice, no more. When Catholics try to manipulate our political system, to enforce their agenda, we protest loudly! I understand your point about this being harder to introduce in Islamic countries, for Islam is a political religion. Thats the very problem, thats why there is so much conflict in Islamic countries, IMHO. Regarding advances, the UN actually did a study on that and one of the reasons why the Middle East was shown to be backward, was in fact religion. If kids spend their days reciting the Koran off by heart, they are missing out on other education. Its not those who constantly have their heads in religious books, who have made progress in and for our societies, its eg engineers who study engineering etc. Posted by Yabby, Wednesday, 1 February 2006 10:16:48 PM
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Steve Madden
The majority of people who live in Australia live alone? Stats please? Kay PS: What a weird assertion. Posted by kalweb, Wednesday, 1 February 2006 11:20:43 PM
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"Why Christianity is the bedrock of liberal democracy and not cultural relativism that grounds multiculturalism"
Some say Thomas Jefferson didn't believe in God, if thats so then his inclusion of God in the American Declaration of Independence is a stronger argument for the necessity of God in modern life. "Necessary for what? Necessary in order to complete the argument that constrains human power. Necessary in order to establish a ground so that the weak and the defenseless, so that those with no power, those with no eloquence, those with no case to be made by their money or their status or anything else about them would be able to stand in the face of every human power whatsoever and demand respect for their human rights and dignity. Do we think that that comes about [applause] . . . do we think that comes about because Alan Dershowitz feels like it today, or Alan Keyes feels like it today? No." "I want you to listen carefully to what Mr. Dershowitz said. The thing that bothers me about it is that he wants me to give up my reliance on God as the guarantor of my claim to dignity, and instead rely on him and his good conscience. [applause]" Keyes From a wonderful debate between Keyes and Dershowitz. "Does Organized Religion Hold Answers to the Problems of the 21st Century?" http://www.renewamerica.us/archives/speeches/00_09_27debate.htm Posted by Martin Ibn Warriq, Thursday, 2 February 2006 5:13:58 AM
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Religion is bunk the public holidays we have while many of them where created in a period when most Aussie went to a Christian church they are now very much secular holidays. The over welling symbol of Xmas is Santa clause ( not to be confused with saint Nicolas) Easters symbol is the Easter bunny a very pagan symbol. Very few Aussie go to any of the various churches that celebrate these holidays. Australia is very much a secular state (no matter how deluded radical fringe groups might think). While the people that wrote our constitution were Christians they were very much people of their time. Australians under lining moral codes are consistent with just about every religion (pagan or otherwise) and culture in the history of man. The main place were it differs is democracy and that is not a idea born from any of the major religions exiting today.
If Australia constitution was being written today the only reference to religion would be to up hold the freedom of it and from it. Posted by Kenny, Thursday, 2 February 2006 8:45:54 AM
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Personally I thought the link between holidays and state religion was a bit thin hey.
The reason we have certain holidays of christian significance is more to do with the history of our country, rather than any significant political control of today. Also I believe Christmas became a christian holiday later in history. According to Wikipedia (lol highly credible reference of course) that 'Originally it was a day in which the Romans worshipped the God Saturn'. Apparently Pope Julius 1 and Constantine changed it into a christian ceremony around 300-400 AD mark. It could be said today that is has really reverted into a secular holiday, although I think too much is made of it all. I just think it has different significance for each person. For me as a Christian, I enjoy doing all the religious things. For some people its just about finding a time to give and enjoy the company of friends and family. As for your idea that the majority always dominates the minority, including with religion, I'd have to say absolutely. That's democracy. We do not like in a state that enforces secularism like USSR or China. Rather our society is designed to cater for the needs of the majority. To take an extreme example, if 51%+ of Australia decided tomorrow that Fred Nile was the answer to this countries problems, then I'd dare say that this country's laws would start lining up with Fred Nile had to say. If you need any further proof of this, just look at the American elections. How could a moron like George Bush get a 2nd term you say? All the polls showed that the most important issue to the American Public was morality/religion. Hence when George Bush came out and stated his (so-called) Christian views, whereas John Kerry took on a humanistic view (which he revoked in like 2 days), it caused a massive swing of votes towards Bush. Religious leaders like James Dobson asked people to vote for him, and the rest is history. Posted by justin86, Thursday, 2 February 2006 10:42:43 AM
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