Thanks Tania, I investigated Renate Klein's background as a result of her claims about RU486. I, too, find Renate's credibility questionable given the plethora of information and 30 years of use of the drug in many countries throughout the world.

Renate must indeed view Australian women as incapable of self-determination, given her opposition to RU486, in the face of overwhelming success in many other countries.

My investigation has simply confirmed the points you make in your article, Tania. Therefore, I must question Renate's agenda here. Clearly women require credible information and as many options as possible regarding their fertility.

I would ask that Renate qualify her POV in the light of evidence that does not support her claims. What is she really trying to prove here?

Everyone is entitled to their opinions and everything is up for debate.

I must caution those who believe that all women are intelligent enough to make an informed option regarding termination of a pregnancy, when a large proportion of those are as young as 14 years old.

I have supported my female gender in their quest for choice but I am fast realising that we are taking away opportunities and a chance for new-life.

Our Western societies have much choice available with controlling fertilisation and full term birth, that this may be lead to our ultimate minoritising and eventual extinction.

So do we have too much choice?

I find it ridiculous that Tony Abbott even shares the floor and debate on this subject when it is obvious that his past mistakes have influenced his decision on Abortion.

He wasn't a particularly smart cookie when the love child that he thought was his, turned out to be another mans.

Guess he should have worn a condom, then he would have been sure.

re Suebdooto or similar Are you suggesting that we encourage 14 year olds to go ahead with bringing kids into this world!? Are you totally crazy. A 14 year old child who finds herself in that postion certainly needs many things least of all some more strict mangement. However its still a child at 14. Do you even know! what you are saying. Any 14 year old girl should by law be terminated. Its criminal to except a child to expereince child birth .I suppose you also support this 3 grand grant that the goverment brought in which encourages young poor single girls to have a child. No wonder the other countries look at us in discust at our unmarried child rate. I suppose you also think we the tax paying should pay for its keep until 18 as well.You are not born until u are born Sue. hello when did you say your birthday was.Well thats when you are born at any rate. Before that it is completly up to tne women what to do with not only her body but her life. Especially at 14 kids need forward thinking advise not some rat bag going on about pro life.

Wendy

I am terrified for my niece who is about to reach 14 years. She has already had intercourse.

My brother, a widow by suicide (when the girls were 18 months and 5 months)cannot handle reality. "It's just a one off. She won't do it again". He has his head in the sand. She is also smoking and drinking alcohol.

The writing is on the wall. She will no doubt get pregnant - provided that her fertility organs have normal functioning.

My brother is not addressing any issues.

It is sickening and it is sad.

My niece has myriad problems. If she gets pregnant, I will despair.

I am not usually pro-abortion - but in this case -.

Thank you
Kay

That we have so many abortions is caused by our society's inability to condemn sexual intercourse outside of proper times and situations, thus leading to intercourse by those who would be unable to bear children. That shows our society's disrespect for life - trying to divide life from sex - as we slump into a permissive, individualistic bind... we create life and then destroy it to suit our petty pleaures and persuasions.

That's what sex removed from the sphere of procreation is considered to be deviant by all sorts of people, such as Freud, the champion of many such promoters of a permissive sexual ethic. Abortion is an unsuprising consequence of such a lack of ethic.

Many complain about the lack of maternity leave or equal wages as causing abortion. Across countries with such conditions, abortions still occur, especially amongst younger women. Who are we kidding? This brinkmanship - "we'll kill our kids if you don't pay us cash after giving birth" - is a ruse, and the true problem is a society which places money, work and prosperity over life itself. In such a culture, life will not win out.

RU-486 will give choice, but will also entrench a culture of individualism towards life, rather than allowing any proper regulation with mandated counselling for women in this situation. The disempowering of society on issues like abortion is obviously an aim of many feminist groups, and all it would do is entrench our terrible status quo.

I have trouble being optimistic. This is another nail in the coffin of a traditional sexual ethic, and ethic which would be the best way to lower abortions and thus lower the pain associated with it.

I would like to know when the ‘proper time and situation’ for sexual intercourse is and from where this determination comes?

"I would like to know when the proper time and situation for sexual intercourse and where this determination comes from"

Easy, any time is sexual intercourse time.I prefer it in the morning myself to greet the new day, but in the evening will do just fine.Lunch time for a quikie.

Situation. I find it better when the kids are out, loud music puts my trouble and strife right off.Also she is a bit reluctant these days at the drive in,her feet get caught in everything.The beach is not much good anymore, when you start to get a bit old sand gets into all the wrinkles.I have done it whilst she is doing the dishes ,but we break so much crockery it was becoming expensive.

My wife usualy determines all of the above,however I do have some input(so to speak)if she is a bit tired.Its my job to keep her awake.

Reason,

"I would like to know when the ‘proper time and situation’ for sexual intercourse is and from where this determination comes? "

Easy - when people understand the consequences of unprotected sex or sex with condoms only (which can break), or sex using only the pill (with its very small but real chance of not working) etc etc ...

Education is the key there. Do not ban the abortion drug if it is safe but lets not kid ourselves - Except in the case of rape, incest or genuine medical complications a lot of abortions can be avoided. But I am realist to understand that some things as the unrestrained pursuit of pleasure means people can avoid the hard questions of themselves. That is human nature? (Hey I like it too)

This drug would not be even needed if only women, who GENUINELY do not want to get pregant, took the proper precautions.
If they had to pay the full costs of an abortion, rather than rely on Medicare, again this drug wouldn't be needed!

" thus leading to intercourse by those who would be unable to bear children. That shows our society's disrespect for life - trying to divide life from sex - as we slump into a permissive, individualistic bind... we create life and then destroy it to suit our petty pleaures and persuasions."

Now now DF, thats following that weird Catholic dogma, which thinks
sex is somehow evil. Why should people who are unable to have children not have sex? Sex only for the rich who can afford kids?
Get real!

Perhaps the Church should have a good look at nature. Sex is natural
normal, healthy and fun. Trying to deny all that doesent even work for Catholic priests, look how many are caught with their proverbial
pants down and thats just those caught.

Most women can create about 400 human organisms in their lifetimes if they wish, reality is not all can survive. Read Origin of Species, it makes more sense then Catholic dogma.

If the Catholic Church really cared so much about life, they could sell their billions of $ of assets and feed the starving babies, rather then preach the evils of the condom

Kalweb

I think that you need to talk with your 14 y/o niece, and her father for that matter. There are plenty of ways to avoid unwanted pregnancy.
One very effective method is to go on the contraceptive pill. However this option is not for everybody. It can have some serious side effects, such as depression and mood swings.
Another is to combine condoms with the rhythm method. Realistically there are only 30 days in a year that a woman can fall pregnant.
You could find out this information and have a talk with you niece.
Then again, there is the far more troubling reality of the number of young girls who actually go out and get them selves pregnant on purpose. I have known a couple of girls (now mothers), who’s mothers actually told them that the best way to keep a guy is to get pregnant!
My mother put me right off having kids at a young age, (she had my sister when she was 17).
Mums words of wisdom were “If you have kids young, b4 you have a stable income, you will always be poor!” I think that it was good advice, you should tell your niece something like that, and how ugly stretch marks are!

As for the debate on the RU 486 pill. I think it is a good idea. If I wanted to have an abortion, I would rater take a pill, then endure some invasive procedure. I’m sure the girls would go through adequate counseling and explore all their options, b4 being given the pill.
I don’t think it will encourage more abortions, it will only give those seeking one, more choices.
I think it is absolutely ridiculous to think that this pill would cause the extermination of the human race..that's crazy! There are still plenty of couples out there who want to have children. The environment is already struggling to cope with the overpopulation of the world

As for Howard’s Baby bonus. It is just a ploy to help ease the approaching crisis of an ageing workforce heading for retirement. Basically there won’t be enough people working in Australia to support the oldies pensions. He should have thought about this years ago. But this problem too can be fixed, by allowing more immigrant workers into the country. But instead it does seem to be encouraging more poor young single girls to get pregnant, only making the problem worse.

Kalweb,
What a worrying time...I am not usually in favor of abortion, however like all rules, made to be broken, especially in this case of your brothers, I really feel for him and for you.

Hope everything works out well, have you talked to her about a Family Planning Clinic visit, or perhaps a family GP...

Celene and SHONGA

Many thnaks for your thoughts.

They are in Newcastle, and I am on the Sunshine Coast. I visited prior to Christmas and will be visiting again during the first week of Febuary. It's so hard long distance.

It's so very sad.
Cheers
Kay

Bit of a tangential question, about risks. Does anyone know of the risksof RU486 compare to those of regular abortions ? And how much these riskscompare to those of childbirth ? Mind you, a quite separate issue (whichthe author is talking about) is whether we can have informed consent aboutrisks.