How nice. People in Australia connected to terrorism have the same rights as the rest of us to be heard, and the media should facilitate their rights. People in Australia already have the right to say what they think. Why should people with the tendency to express themselves by killing and maiming other Australians be treated differently? And what does the “foundation of humanity” have to do with these warped creatures?

We are not talking about what the author calls politics in relation to terrorists or would-be terrorists. And they will never be convinced that they are wrong as long as the Koran tells them they are right.

Who is going to see these poor souls, who might go underground because they can’t openly preach hate (although a couple of wacky imams seem to be getting away with it) as victims of the state? They might, and their quieter supporters might; but most people will not.

Having said that the media should provide them with a voice, he then says that people who wish to disrupt and wreak havoc on Australia are deranged and have ill-conceived ideas of their faith. But are they really deranged, and are their beliefs ill conceived? Does not the Koran incite them to their actions?

listen hassan i couldn't give a phat rat's hairy arse what people in other countries thought about us.......if your that worried about what's happening overseas then you could always pack up and move there.

anyhow this arguement that's constantly trotted out by jornos and pollies that 'we have a poor reputation overseas' is a furphy.

my challenge to hassan and his ilk is to give names and adresses......who exactly are these people who think so poorly about australia??......sure there might be a small group of like minded leftwing journos and social agitators who may think that way, but the vast bulk of humanity is oblivious to australia and any political issues here, their more interested in getting on with their lives, making money and enjoying themselves.

Jean Charles de Menezes

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Charles_de_Menezes

This is a fine example of what erosion of rights can cause in countries like Australia. A slight change in emphasis on the handling of suspects opens the gate to terrible behaviour and violations of personal wellbeing. The officers involved walk away without repercussion, because even the slightest changes in the law allows them to.

On a side note (http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=3964) this from the wikipedia entry also,

"Later, a security agency source said: “This take-out is the signature of a special forces operation. It is not the way the police usually do things. We know members of SO19 have been receiving training from the SAS, but even so, this has special forces written all over it.”

As you see, special operations forces will commit human rights violations as modus operandi, no matter what country, even in their own country.

Syed: Even with these new laws aimed solely at those who want to destroy us. Australia is still a lot freer then 99% of all moslem nations.
Moslems can set up mosques, schools etc in this country and these can be foreign funded. In how many islamic nations could Christians do the same, and if they could they would be heavily constrained.
In Australia my religion or lack off is none of any Government's business. In the majority of islamic nations if a citizen converted to Christianity, Hinduism or any other religion he/she is killed or jailed.
Moslems will use our laws & democracy to destroy us as one of your leaders stated in reference to America.
There seems to be many of you people sending in articles at present, is it the beginning of a media blitz? You know like "We moderates are misunderstood and deep down we are wonderful"
It was only last week that there was in every major Australian city 10,000 or more moderate moslems marching for peace, marching for tolerance and castigating the firebrand islamic preachers - err wasn't there? No sorry that is something I have never seen nor am I likely to do so eh mate? numbat

"the communities at risk from these sedition laws would be the Australian Muslim community, the anti-globalisation and anti-war protest movements, freelance journalists and ethnic media"

White supremacists and conspiracy theorists are also at risk, as are those in the republican movement who ridicule the British royal family.

Apparently a new law banning the publication of information on euthanasia also comes into effect today.

We're getting some very confused messages about who is allowed to say what. The who and what goalposts and the rules applying to them are moving in inconsistent directions.

Why must we respect Pauline Hanson's right to speak her mind, but deny the same right to someone who objects to Prince Charles and Camilla becoming the King and Queen of Australia?

I can't remember the name of that bloke who wasn't allowed here because he denies the holocaust. Was it someone Irving? Yet Geoffrey Blainey has been openly praised by our prime minister for doing exactly the same thing.

There are truths and untruths all over the place and varying shades of grey between them. If we're going to live the rhetoric of choice then surely we're entitled to choose from the entire range of opinion. How else are we to make educated judgements?

For a start , Australians were never asked if we wanted to drop the White Australia policy, we were never asked if we wanted Multi Culture.
The anwers to both would have been a loud,"NO!"
So do not give us the line that this country was founded on Multi Culture and do not give us the line that it is open to everyone.
Most Australians deplore the downhill ride our once good land is on.
Unsuitable migrants who will never adapt are not benefitting us,particularly those who come from countries that are in a constant state of war and chaos. Such people do not know how to live in peace.
As can be proved by the amount of crime generated by ethnic gangs.
That is Multi Culture and most of us reject it.

chainsmoker, i must have missed something cos i never realised that blainey denies the holocaust took place.

next you'll be telling me he eats babies for breakfast.

When are we going to see an article from a Muslim that is pro-Australia,anti-terrorism and tells us how happy they are to be in this great country?

It is all about elevating themselves to victim status and gaining as much political and social advantage as the population will bare in the name of racial tolerance.

Muslims are further alienating themselves from the general population by these persistant demands and protests to increase their influence and power.Aparently creating ill feelings in the community doesn't bother them one iota.

This is a dilemma among majority of us - with isolated mentality, less knowledge on international politics and influenced up by exaggerated media - as soon as we see an article written by supposedly a Muslim, identified by name, everyone bombarding on his writings and on him using the same common grounds which are being used against Muslims without any justifications and understating of international politics.

I cannot see any author’s statements where he tried to promote Muslim views, or abuse Australia or Australians. Matter of fact, the central idea of author’s article is to avoid unnecessary seditions law in Australia which could create unnecessary fear in the section of the people not only among Muslims but peace activists…. he has entirely focused on anti-terror laws and seditions….. I am sure if this was written by an author whose name was not reflected a Muslim identity, there would have been several comments supporting his logical and well referenced write-up as I find the article well balanced and the views which have been said by many Australians, journalists and writers before.

I have read so many articles of the same author published internationally in past many years where he has praised Australia and promoted Australia internationally.

Unfortunately, as soon as we find a person with Muslim name, we without wasting time and instead of putting some thoughts on his/her saying, start condemning the person…. What should we expect then from them to think about us….. Shouldn’t this behaviour of ours justify them to feel that yes there are people among us who do have racist mentality and feel that only those Anglo Saxon are Australians whose forefathers came by boats as convicts…..

I think we have to be honest and fair….. I would request all my friends to please judge the author on his sayings not on his background….this will leave good impression to others nationally and internationally

The Liberal(?) Howard Government is, as well said by Frazer, "a party of fear and reaction". And the Australian people, by providing Howard with a Senate majority, proved themselves fearful, reactionary and stupid.

Reporting by the media - critical, unquestioning and compliant, enforced the stupidity.

Curtailed as the Holy Grail of cross media ownership legislation revocation has been held, like Damocles Sword, over the media. Much more at stake than informing the public - political advantage - and the opportunity if compliant - to reap millions.

Bush and Blair have, quite rightly been pilloried for their conduct. Not Howard. No US citizens are subjectd to Guantanamo Bay, all British Citizens have been extradited, but Australian Hicks has been abandoned for the fourth year.

Howard holds the whip hand. Legislation which will make billions for the winners.

The sedition laws, it is suggested, merely up the ante for a compliant media.

Good post Malik!

On sedition laws, from what I understand the laws relating to 'unlawful association' are much more invidious.

Of particular relevance is section 30 of the new law which speaks of acts that Advocate or incite crime. Any person who by speech or writing advocates or encourages:

(a) the overthrow of the Constitution of the Commonwealth by revolution or sabotage;

(b) the overthrow by force or violence of the established government of the Commonwealth or of a State or of and other civilized country or of organized government;
[Of course these laws can’t be applied to places like Iraq! )

They do however leave open a wide corridor for political interpretations of where sedition begins and where political dissent ends. So much for our bloody pride in democracy!

Thanks for this article Syed!

PS.
Arjay, since you’re such a prodigious expert – could you tell us all what religion or culture a 'John Smith' would be? You seem to have some intuitive insight into what people’s background are without relying on the evidence us mere mortal use

Has anyone noticed that when Moslems move to the West, they immediately become experts on “Human Rights” and then start lecturing the rest of us on “Freedom of Speech”? Too bad that they and their religion don’t practice what they preach. Where Islam and Mohammud rule, people have very little of either. That is why Muslims want out of Islamic countries.

See how the followers of Mohammud respect personal opinions and “freedom of Speech”. They would kill over a few silly cartoons that are really not that offensive:

http://www.newspaperindex.com/blog/2005/12/10/un-to-investigate-jyllands-posten-racism/

Notice that yours truly is giving them heck, as usual. Notice also how well Muslims defend their dear leader Herr Mohammed from accusations of conduct unbecoming a great moral example - and how much they support freedom of speech (not!).

Mr. Hassan says “One should not forget that freedom of speech is the foundation of all humanity.”

Mr. Hassan is so really concerned with democracy and freedom that he can write whole articles about these in Islamic countries and oops, he forgets to mention them. How pathetic. Please see

http://www.mediamonitors.net/syedatiqulhassan1.html

Yes, these countries have something Muslims call “blasphemy” laws that show how much Islam respects a person’s rights. May I quote: The penalty for contempt of the Holy Prophet, is death and nothing else." (Pakistani Federal Sharia Court, 1990). Please read these links:

http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/12/11/news/pakistan.php

http://www.asianews.it/view.php?l=en&art=4146

Both articles today by Taimor Hazou and Syed Atiq ul Hassan have the same “give all benefit of any doubt to terrorists they are really misunderstood people” attitude that is derived from their absolute refusal to link terror to the intrinsic violence of Islam. The fact is that there is absolutely to correlation between what Muslims say in the West and what they do when they are in control. They talk about freedom of Speech, but they support "shut up or else" anti-villification "be nice to Islam" laws. Ask the catch the CTF Fire folks. You cannot trust Muslims; they cannot be honest about their faith. Sad, but true.

John Kactuzkid

Some Free Speech from the pen of Keyser Trad, Aussies friendly muslim spokesman:

"our ideology is the best salvation for the people of Australia, and the people of the world in general. Yes, we are a threat to the culture of drunkenness, paedophilia, and mostly we are a big threat to the culture of ELITISM."

"In a way, they feel safe because of the quantity of water which surrounds this country, so they feel fortified behind this great body, it gives them a feeling of security. But the reality is, the land belongs to God, not to them, and if those foreigners, whom they fear as migrants are not permitted to enter as migrants, they will come as settlers, in numbers so large that they will not be able to process them, hold them, or stop them. What will they do then? If these foreigners who are restraining themselves, because they see a legal hope, that they can come to this vast mainly uninhabited land for whatever reason, are told that there is no longer a legal way to come here, what will they do?"

Sounds like the answer to Keysers Question is Jihad on Australia.

http://www.islam.org.au/articles/16/RACISM.HTM

Syed, welcome to the world of The Forum, a gathering place for all sorts of wierd and wonderful people. I haven't read your piece yet. But after reading some of the nonsense posted by the monocultural looneys here, I will be certain to read it within the next 24 hours. Anyway, Must go. Unlike some of the bludgers who congregate here, I have some real work to do!

I spent more than 30 years and consider myself as much as Australian as the Australian as others.

Reading views of some, I feel how much this nation is ignorant, selfish and disregardful about others. According to renowned Australian (white) historian, there were significant number of cameleers, labour and farmers brought into this land of down under by British rulers from South Asia especially from Afghanistan. Most of them were Muslims. They were treated like stone-aged slaves. They were not given chance to see their families one more time. They built railway tracks, roads and other basic infrastructure in long and isolated desert of this huge continent.
Shamefully, the descendents of those white people, who occupied and rule this country to keep their convicts today abuse those people whom grand fathers built this land.

Muslims never become the threat to this land. Even if one claim and refer to post 9/11 events then I would say they have no deep knowledge on international politics. It is not very long time when Osama Bin Landen, his followers and Talibans were the heroes of America as they defeated Russia in Afghanistan.
I am a Catholic I feel proud to speak and accept the realities and the reality of the last century is that in Hitler who was a Christian, was the only person managed to kill millions on this earth by the worth hatred against Jews. Similarly, US is the only country who practically dropped the atomic bomb in Japan and killed millions. US with the help of Australia killed millions in Vietnam and there are several other examples. But today, only Muslims are being considered as terrorists.

Instead of blindly condemning Muslims and criticizing any intellectual, writer or journalist just because he/her carries a Muslim name shows that how rude and ignorant the people in Australia.

No one can deny that Australia earned good reputation in the world once they abolished white Australia policy. I find the article of Syed Atiq ul Hassan was an excellent case of defending the rights against the government seditions laws and unwanted terror la

In the country this gentle man came from I very much doupt you can say what you want, or indeed do as you wish.
No fan of this goverment ,I understand radicals play by inhuman rules and use our freedoms against us.
Miss information and out right lies are a weapon often used.
How can we propose to silence white raceists in our country but leave these murderers free to speak?

Sedition: The Common Law offence of speaking or writing seditious statements, or any other conduct done with seditious intent.

Seditious intent: An intention to bring the Soveriegn into hatred or contempt, or to incite disaffection against the Commonwealth Government, the Commonwealth Constitution, the States or against Parliament.

To convict an accused of sedition it must be shown the accused had an immediate and predominate purpose to excite in his or her audience Dissasitfaction towards the Crown, the governmnet, or the constituion Burns v Ransley (1949) 79 CLR 101.

Who has Soveriegnty of this land? I believe there are two 1 Black, 1 White, "Traditional owners".

Both have a dissagreement with terrorism which a is a cowards way of frightening a population into believing what the government of the day wishes them to believe.

The oldest religion is hinduism.
The oldest laws are here accross Australia (Aboriginal) we believe that death is warranted in many cases a penalty must be paid for doing wrong regardless of age, to teach a child right from wrong is good but to teach a child fear is a crime.

A penalty must be paid but a child is only a child and to teach them a lesson on knowing the difference is better than to punish without teaching them a rule of law first.

A woman in many countries has no rights, men of many lands believe they are superior to woman, so let them bear the children and we will see who is the creatror and who God gave the gift of giving life to.

Syed if I'd written: after 9/11 came waves of terror, in revenge for the US-allied forces actions, by the Muslim 'fanatic's targeted' in Iraq and Afghanistan, I'd be written off, by most, as an illogical looney and by Irfan as an armchair Nazi.

Since 9/11 only two attacks occurred in the west. Madrid and London. Madrid the work of Islamist extremists based in Europe. London the work of 'home grown' Muslim terrorists. Indonesia had attacks; on the Australian Embassy and two tourist resorts, carried out by Indonesian Muslims.

The only other significant violence is in Iraq and Afghanistan. That violence, without doubt, targets Muslims.

Your claimed 'targetted fanatic's', from Afghanistan and Iraq are not attacking the US or it's allies. Especially not Australia.

Our new laws allow our police and security forces the leeway to ensure the typical wanton violence of the Muslim societies of Afghanistan and Iraq is prevented here.

Western societies have suspended their freedoms on those occassions when the way of life has been threatened...violently. In Australia the media endured heavy censorship by the Curtin Government. There was a general uproar when the Government endeavoured to use those repressive measures long after they were obviously not needed.

It's common for westerners to abdicate their rights in the face of threats, just as it is common for them to expect those rights re-instated once threats dissipate.

That is one of the reasons the west have relative civil peace and an enduring democracy. Most of us understand our freedoms and why we have them.

Our politic's is about expressing verbally and non-violently our needs and desires. What these terrorists are about is violent aggression. We know they have avowed to destroy us and our society. Why would we need to allow them a platform to spout their hatefulness and their villification?

Demanding a voice for our enemy is an abuse of our freedom. It would never have happened during Curtin's time nor in Mohammed's Arab Empire.

ps It is grand you admit there were 'fanatical' Islamist terrorists in Iraq. Wasn't that one of George, Tony and John's reasons ...?

Rainer ,basically I see you as a left wing anachist.You want power without evolution or responsibility.You are just as dangerous as the right wing white supremacists.You will gladly take from the society that affords you abundance and denegrate the values discipline and history that make it all possible.

Basically Rainer you are a hypocrite.You talk of presenting unbiased history to your students yet never mention like most of your lefty mates how the Aborigines treated each other prior European settlement.The Aborigines were involved with their own murderous tribal warfare over land and resources just like the Eurpoeans.It was influenza that killed more Aborigines than any bullets.

So don't give us this nonsense of the noble oppressed savage.You like most Aborigines Rainer have more Anglo genes than Aboriginal.It suites many Anglo Aborigines to be the victimised down trodden receivers of sit down money which has insidiously destroyed them.

As I've said previously,the Romans and Vikings invaded England so get used to it."What did the Romans ever do for us?"Remember the quote from "The Life of Brian"?

Oh deary me Arjay, Do you really want me to respond to this effort? I'm sure others do but I'm kinda bored with analysing your pathetic racisms and paranoid fears and least of all your comic book political opinions. You've got to read more broadly than playboys and the sunday papers Arjay, theres a whole world of theory and history waiting for you.
Heres a picture of me for you to look at mate!
Its an old one but it shows my best side!
http://www.pg.com/science/haircare/hair_twh_36/hair_twh_36_02.jpg

Rainer.Yes,the picture of the Old Aborigine is something to respect,since he was a true warrior but the present day pretenders have lost the plot,just like many of our Anglo trendies.

Arjay, you are right about respecting the old Aboriginal warrior. I respect him more than the drunken and stoned goons we saw defiling the Australian flag at Cronulla. I can only imagine what Christ would have done to these looneys. Perhaps something similar to what he did to the money changers ...

Then again, Christ was of Middle Eastern appearance. So he might have been hit by a beer bottle before lifting a finger ...

Irfan, the "drunken and stoned goons" wouldn't have been there, if not for years of abuse and intimidation by Lebanese gangsters, and their assault on two lifeguards.
These Lebanese gangsters should all go back to their countries of origin, bacause they are incapable of assimilating and contributing anything positive to Western civilisation.
Your constant focus on the Anglo-Celtic reaction to the Lebanese provocations shows that you are biased.
What about the events AFTER the Cronulla riots as well? Or do you consider the rampage and destruction of property by the Lebanese gangs to be fully justified, as well as their prior provocations?

Froggie

The armchair defender of our freedoms won't answer those questions.

He simply can't.

Here's some more questions - I do not hate nor am I at war with pagan islam - but
Quote:" We declare ourselves to be clear of you, and enmity and hatred have appeared between us and you forever until you believe in alah alone (60:2-4)" islam a religion of peace?
Then there is "Taqqiya" or "al-Taqqiya" Now come you peace loving honest moslems surely you have been taught this special moslem teaching? It means of course :"concealing or disguising one's beliefs, convictions, ideas, feelings, opinions and/or strategies at a time of eminent danger, whether now or later in time to save ones-self from physical and/or mental injury. Another translation would be"dissimulation" (www.al-islam.org/encyclopedia/chapter6b/1.html)
This means that moslems can and are encouraged to lie to non-moslems.
So how in blue blazes can we believe you in what you say on this forum - please answer HONESTLY - if possible. numbat

So the muslims are worried about freedom of speech, you pack of ingrate hypocrites, we cant say anything about you lot, or your hateful beliefs, what about the two Dannies that read a verse from the Koran and said we should all love Muslims, big mistake in your eyes. You think you are pop stars or something, why are you always in the media, having a say, and complaining, we hear nothing from the Buddhist, or Hindu's or any other minority group, just you lot whinging, victim playing nuisances. If you have nothing to hide, what's your problem jacko.