Very interesting quote eco. There has been a lot of comments coming out of universities about how schools are failing. School in its current form would indeed appear to be bad for children. Literacy and numeracy are both in decline, and bullying is on the rise.

Unfortunately the idea of school is so ingrained in the psyche of the populace that many have difficulty in seeing that there are different ways to educate. Regrettably school has done such a good job at institutionalising most people, few are able to see that as an educational system it is; inefficient, antiquated and fundamentally flawed.

Hi Lyn,

Thanks for the comment. The letter was from the Office of the Minister for Education, Science & Training, that is, Hon. Brendan Nelson. As such it was written on behalf of your Commonwealth education minister and representative.

I've just added a links guide to tertiary pathways for homeschool students.

regards
Rosie
www.rosiereal.blogspot.com

Hi, I'm another home educator. I am also an education professional with a Masters in Education, and feel I have sufficient experience both in and outside of the school environment to recognise the issues on both sides of this discussion.

I wanted to address a couple of issues I have seen raised.

Some stated bullying often originates in the home, rather than in the schools. I agree, but would suggest schools offer an opportunity for students who have not learned bullying skills at home, to learn them in the school environment from their friends, without sufficient guidance and intervention from overtaxed teachers. For those who have come to school with bullying skills already learned, schools provide an excellent environment for honing those skills. There are enough examples of workplace bullying in the media alone, to support the argument that schools do nothing to re-educate children with regard to positive social interactions. In fact, schools have few resources for such re-educate and struggle to minimize the incidents of bullying, let alone re-educate the offenders/victims (with children usually being both simultaneously)...

The second issue is the right of parents to withdraw their children from a toxic environment where the bullying is occurring - for the sake of this argument, that would be in schools. As things stand in Australia, parents in most states do not have the right to simply remove their child/ren from school if they feel the child is not being protected. In most states, parents must first seek permission to home educate, or otherwise be fined. They must seek permission from the very body whose job it is to advocate for schools. Education departments and staff cannot be deemed unbiased, when they very existence is dependant on the existence of Government schools, and therefore giving permission to parents to withdraw their children actually threatens their existence.

While parents must seek permission to withdraw their child from a situation dangerous to their (physical, emotional, or psychological) health, while they must WAIT until such approval has been given, children will continue to be damaged for life through school yard bullying.

TonyC
I thought, to be fair, as I asked you for a reference I should do the same.

This is a great resource for you homeschoolers who haven't come across it yet - a reputable and free peer-reviewed online encyclopaedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literacy#Literacy_history

states that
"in England in 1841, 33% of men and 44% of women signed marriage certificates with their mark as they were unable to write. Only in 1870 was government-financed public education made available in England."

and that according to the United Nations Development Programme Report 2005 the literacy rate in Australia, UK and most other developed countries was 99.9%. It is difficult to see how this could be any higher.

I do agree though that the standard of literacy has declined in recent years which I think has a lot to do with too much TV and not enough books.

Sajo, here goes my second post for the day :).

I wonder about 99.9% literacy in Australia. How are they defining literacy, do you think? I wonder about this, because, apparently according to Government studies up to 1/3 of Australian school leavers are "functionally illiterate" (meaning, they can read the words, but not comprehend the contextual meaning of the words they read). In this case, does being literate merely meaning the person can recite written words on a page, and reproduce them, that is really not the essence of literacy.

Hi Jolanda,

I don't know if you thought that was my quote about homeschooling preventing bullying - I was actually quoting the title of the original article we are all commenting on here!

And I presume you mean "are bad for children" instead of "I don’t think its fair to say that schools, per say, are for bad children", lol….! The "schools are bad for children" was the heading of the small article I posted, not my words. If it got down to it, I'd maybe have to say (and we have very limited space here to say anything much, with a limit on our number of posts as well, both frustrating aspects of this forum) that perhaps schools aren't all bad. I just don't think they're all that good either.

I'm not knocking teachers for a lot of them (not all) do as best a job they can in a tired, old, ineffective system. I know a fair amount of teachers and principals who agree with me.

I'm also not wishing to “stir” or spiral down into a argumentive discussion, however mild, about school versus home education – both exist and one has enormous problems, whether people see that or want to see it, or not, to the detriment of many children.

I simply quoted what Mr Schank apparently said (and I have looked up other things he has written about school education since – pretty damning actually!) because I thought he made some good and valid points about students regurgitating information for exams, the need to produce adults who love learning, to stop thinking that all children need to learn the same stuff and creating adults who can think for themselves. I will do some more searching and see what else he has said to say, and what he may be proposing as an alternative to school, for my own interest.

I agree with you, Jolanda, when you say it’s not the children’s fault. We adults have a responsibility to our children… and with that I’ve run out of space for further comments for a day or so….