Bullying amongst school students is a vital educational issue and home schooling may be a good alternative, at least temporarily. I am also interested in the more recently expressed notion that extends this concept to include bullying which often occurs in schools, towards teachers from students.

As a well-experienced teacher I have experienced this type of bullying. I am well aware that many other teachers have suffered similarly. Student bullying has also caused teacher suicide.

This concept must be discussed in its wider context as an unacceptable form of social aggression. It probably underpins such negative behaviour as 'road rage', workplace harassment and violent 'street gang' demonstrations.

The focus of bullying has been mostly directed towards children and their school peers. This focus must be widened. Teachers and others need protection from bullies too. The law does attempt to protect citizens and workers in adult employment and public situations, but teachers within their classrooms are often left powerless against child bullies. They are too often expected to 'deal with aggression' from such children in their care. Their professional credibility and authority is often questioned if they appear unable to 'deal' successfully with this problem on their own. They have few tools available to 'deal' with bully behaviour successfully. Senior school staff very often cannot or do not want to 'deal' with the problem either. Teachers are loathe to admit defeat and to speak out.

Some schools are now using video surveillance in all classrooms to monitor classroom behaviour. This strategy should be used in all school classrooms. This is not a 'big brother'tactic so much as a potentially protective measure for all people engaged in the education environment, if and when unacceptable behaviour occurs.

Classroom bullies could be 'caught on film' and if necessary, their parents could be shown clearly how their children are behaving in class. The onus could be returned to parents, to also 'deal' with their own child's antisocial behaviour. Too often a bully will attempt to emotionally destroy his peers as well as his teachers. Teachers need to be included in the bullying equation too! Urgently!

Although homeschooling could sometimes be appropriate in most cases it would surely be better to sort out the problem. Teaching our children to basically run away from bullies neither provides them with the skills needed in adult life nor helps remediate the bully. Child bullies are likely to end up as adult bullies either in gangs or in the workplace. They are also most likely to bully another child once the victim has moved on. The majority of children are not bullies and it is in the childs interest to learn how to interact socially with their peers. Bullies generally carry out their intimidation in groups and it would be more successful to separate them from their mates than just remove the victim.

Why is it that schools seem to generate the sort of environments that foster bullying. Even with the best intentions, bullying still goes on, every single day. Many schools do have their bullying policies, and claim that there is no bullying in the school because they have a policy to deal with it. However, despite the policies, bullying is rarely addressed properly, and when parents complain, the issues are rarely dealt with and the bullying often intensifies. I too have heard that home education is the best way out for many families suffering from unaddressed bullying. It is interesting with bullying on the rise, that the State Government would now seem to be legislating to stop this avenue of escape for many families. By making it harder for families to leave the system, and remove their children from a dangerous environment, the State Government is actually putting bullied children at greater risk. Also I have been reading lately that the new Education Act, will have children attending school all the hours it is open for instruction, which means that parents will not be able to give their children even a days respite from the daily torment of bullying.

Sajo’s comment that; "it in most cases it would surely be better to sort out the problem. Teaching our children to basically run away from bullies neither provides them with the skills needed in adult life nor helps to remediate the bully", belongs in an Enid Blyton book. It is this sort of naïve, antiquated and reactionary type of thinking that perpetuates the bullying problem in our schools. Susan Wight and the other home educators should be congratulated for looking for a better way for their children.
It is sad that there are some in our society so bound by the convention of mass education, (which is only a 200 year young tradition), that they are unable to appreciate those who have the courage of their convictions to try a different way.

The Bayswater Primary School principal states that - bullying is openly repeated behaviour designed to have a negitive affect on those you are bullying. Some of the signs of bullying he mentions are social isalation, school refusal, low academic achievment, and depression. These signs are not a problen in home educated children, in fact research suggests the opposite. HSLDA America states 74% of home educated students complete college education compared with 46% of general students. 71% of home educated adults are involved in their community compared to 37% of traditionally educated adults. L.E. Shyers(1992 A comparision of social adjustment between home and traditionally educated children) states home educated children demonstated higher assertiveness and self concept, and less problem behaviour as a means of resolving social issues than traditionally educated children. M.M Ddelahooke ( Home educated children's social and emotional adjustment 1986) says home educated children are well adjusted and less peer dependant. Thomas Asserton (1995 Home education - Distance education without the distance) states - home educated children are socially advantaged,demonstate strong self concept, good social adjustment, are less peer dependant and can interact with all age groups confidently. Professor Roger Hunter from Griffith University in Queensland ( 1994 ) notes the resurgence of home schooling and its significant growth. He estimates in 1994 there were approx 10,000 homeschoolers with an annual increase of 20%. It seems that a lot of parents think that homeschooling is a stable,safe and more socially aware way to educate their children. Perhaps the Victorian government should look at following home educators examples rather than trying to bring in new legislation that will bring home education under their laws and rules that have proven themselves to be an inefficent way to educate children. The 2005 - 2006 budget report states - that in year 10 alone 19% of victorian state school students can't read, 18% of victorian state school students can't write ( how is this possible ) 27% of victorian state school students can't do maths. These are not the results that parents expect when they entrust their children to the government state schools.

Home schooling is an alternative solution that should be available to any parent. There are solutions that would greatly reduce bullying. Teachers cannot do it alone, they must have the support of administraters and parents. Administraters must have the support and help of the community and parents. Solutions begin with bystanders becoming involved (they must be taught how) and with having strong leadership who will handle the incidents without having the concern of losing their job.

At www.stoppingschoolviolence.com there is a resource to help parents and teachers. I do agree with the teacher who claimed bullying of teachers is a concern. It is getting out of hand and they're being bullied by students and parents. Unless all adults work together solving this epidemic will take a long time.

Thank goodness home education exists to provide a refuge for families suffering from bullying. Home education has proved to be successful for the majority of children, and not just for those suffering from the systems ineptitude to deal successfully with the issue of bullying. It is frightening that the State Government is trying to curtail the growth of home education in this state. Perhaps they too subscribe to the view that ‘Bullying builds Character’. Or maybe they are trying to bully the home education movement out of existence.

The real issue here is that our education system has broken down as far as bullying is concerned. As such it is part of a larger problem of a breakdown in law and order which people have responded to with security doors, dogs, alarms and mobile phones.

How many people feel like going for a walk after dark especially in the inner suburbs of Melbourne and Sydney?

The other point is that compulsory schooling today is ridiculous. I might accept that the government expect parents to see that their kids can read and write and do basic maths essential for earning a living. I fail to see any justification in this day and age for demanding that parents send their kids to a school every day from 5 to 15 when educational standards are so low and there are so many cheaper and better ways of achieving that schooling is supposed to achieve.

Susan

Thank you for your article.

I have been (pathetic grammar!) mental health nursing for some 25 years or so. Mmm.

Remove the kids? Mmmm.

I must have missed something during that time.

Simple for me. Bully kids learn bully behaviour from bully parents.

And the "bully parents" are so often the so-called middle and upper class politically correct people who have a hidden agenda.

Hi Kalweb, what exactly is your point? Your rhetoric appears to be somewhat rambling and confused. Who exactly is it that you are against, home educators, middle class people, or politically correct people? I salute the fact that you have been a mental health nurse for 25 years, but what exactly has this to do with the issue in hand?

I agree with kalweb - bully kids learn bully behaviour from their parents, ( where did their parents learn it ) children also learn this behaviour from their peers and their teachers, both they spend more time with in the school year than their parents. All behaviour, good or bad is learnt. Babies have only two needs food and care, everything after that we learn from those around us.It appears in this world of self indulgance that adults have forgotten that we are all human, whatever our schooling, upbrining,religion, or political agenda. We need to consider others as well as ourselves. It's time to work together regardless of whether our children are in state school,private school,home educated, slow learners or advanced learners. It's time we take the control of our children back from the government.Stand up and say " enough - your track record is rotten, you have failed. I f the government was a private business running our schools they would have been sacked by now. Something has to be done to rectify the situation. Bullying policys are obviously not working, children are still being bullied. It's still a major problem in every school in australia. Rather than bringing in new legislation the government needs to take a huge step back and rectify the mess they have gotten our children into. All parents need to write to their local member and say - 'the new proposed laws regarding education are not going to fix literacy or bullying, we object to them abd want and demand a study that includes all educators,parents,researchers and proffesors, that will look logically at all evidence and consider changes to bring back sensibility into our schools and the give the power back to the parents to make choices for their children.' Our children deserve our support.

I fully support your remarks. I have been exposed to parents who have been put through these issues. Good luck in your work towards peace for the families.

The change in my god child when he was removed from the school where he was bullied was dramatic. The sheer relief that he was not going to be subjected to degrading, humiliating and offensive behaviour any more was palpable. He once more became happy, interested and confident in his own abilities. How can it be right to subject children to this day after day, and how sad that we as people in control allow it to continue. The government will make the situation worse by forcing children to be in school everyday, as they will make things worse by meddling with home education. Why is it they refuse to acknowledge we are an information rich society where home educators are trail blazing the way to bring education into the 21st century. The government should be supporting them not restricting them with draconian rules and regulations. Leave the bullies to themselves in school and leave the home educators to their system that works, a system that works with love, nourishment and family values.

Home education presents so many solutions to societal and educational problems. The bullying aspect of institutionalised schooling is ingrained. It simply does not occur when parents, who have a vested interest in their children's emotional and physical well-being, are present. Home education physically protects the child, as well as fostering a genuine love of learning provided by involved parents, and not retricteded by a coercive 'minimum standard' set by an anonymous educrat.

As far as I'm aware Politically-correct hidden agenda = Bracks Government!

My family has had issues with bullying at school but not just from students but from teachers and the Education System. Two are on Distance Education on Psychological and medical grounds as a result of serious psychological and emotional issues as a result of their treatment at school.

Here is what my children say. It’s the adults that are the problem as many of them are racist and bullies and if they don’t like a kid they make it obvious. My children are of Lebanese background and intellectually gifted and they have found that more often than not the teachers either ostracize them or publicly humiliate them. The other kids notice the fact that the teacher is treating them unfairly, so in order to be on the teacher’s good side they take the teachers cue as they know that the teacher and school will turn a blind eye and that bullies are protected. Of course there has been the odd occasion where they have had a teacher who is not like that, but it has been the minority.

Same thing happens in the playground. My children say there is no supervision, discipline, no control and bullying behaviour is rife.

Schools seem to think that it is my children's perspective that is the problem and that they are just too sensitive and it’s just kids being kids. I say it’s louts in the making. I have sat in the playground and watched, it isn't my children's perspective that is the problem, its the fact that the standards have dropped to such a low standard that there are those that think it is normal for another kid to walk past someone and knock them out of the way or to ram into another child with the “its an accident’ excuse – time and time again.

Push and shove is seen as normal. Spinning school bags and letting go is seen as normal. Kicking balls into others is seen as normal. Insulting others is seen as normal.

Adults are not supervising the children and setting a good example. That is not normal.

Hi
Bullying such an important issue that needs to be dealt with in our school system. I applaud homeeducaters for taking the initiative to actively and effectively protect and educate their children. For the person that mentioned we are running away from dealing with the issue of bullying by removing kids from school to HS you have no idea what you are saying.

We should never deliberately place our children in a situation where they are systematically bullied to do so equals abuse in my book. I can say this from experience having being emotionally physically and sexually abused for years in the school system and no one cared.. Not even the teachers who refused to believe us when we tried to tell them. It took legal action to stop the physical abuse after I was battered for no reason everyday I walked in the school grounds. I am telling you this because I think more parents need to take this issue very seriously, it can affect our kids lives for a very long time

I have Homeschooled at various times two of my own disabled children due to bullying and during this time they have excelled intellectually, physically and emotionally. Bullying robs children of so much whether they have the tools to deal with it or not. I think Home schooling in my experience has been the answer to not only the bullying issues but to many other issues that plaque our school system.

good on you Susan, its great to have a voice out there that is lobbying for a better alternative

Good point gbyrneg50, some people think we are living in the 1950’s rather than almost 2006. Schools are not succeeding, so why are we clinging to this antiquated system that is obviously not working. From what I can tell homeschooling would seem to be a highly successful, forward thinking and enriching educational experience for children. It is a shame we can not say that about the school system. It seems that the government’s new educational act only seeks to restrict any education movement other than it’s own dysfunctional state schools. Well done homeschoolers both here and overseas, you have shown us that there is another way other than the tired clapped out school system.

I wasn't suggesting that we should leave our children to be bullied day after day - only that we should deal with the bullies not teach them that their unsocial behaviour pays off. Homeschooling has a lot of merits - I have even considered it myself but for other reasons. However it is not applicable to most parents who are unable or lack sufficient patience or skills to homeschool to a high standard. Are you suggesting that only those children whose parents are able and willing to homeschool should be protected from bullying? It should however be available on a temporary basis while schools sort out any bullying behaviour. Bullies left to their own become bigger bullies later on. Our children will meet up with them eventually and the outcomes are likely to be as bad if not worse in adulthood. Removing victims from schools may help individual children but does absolutely nothing to prevent it happening again. Or is OK as long as it only happens to someones else's child?

Whether people wish to acknowledge it or not, bullying is a huge problem in Australian schools. It is not going to go away just because people pretend it isn't as bad as it is. My daughter was bullied so badly in kindergarten that she did not want to go anymore and I would literally have to drag her there. I, like most parents, hoped and believed that the teacher would be able to make it a safe and fun place for my child. Unfortunately this was not to be. The teacher was not really able to do anything except tell the boy his behaviour was undesirable and to please be good. Obviously this did not work. When my daughter started to have bad dreams about kindergarten and told her grandmother about the 'monster' who tormented her there, it became apparent that it wasn't working. I withdrew my daughter and began home educating her. We haven't looked back. My happy and confident daughter has returned. Her love of learning and education level would make any teacher proud. She is able to socialise with people who make her feel good about herself and distance herself from those who don't. She can learn about negotiation and disagreeing without physical abuse. Adults don't have to accept physical abuse in the workplace... so why should our children suffer it in school?

Sajo, you seem to have a very poor view of parents in general if you think that most parents ‘lack sufficient patience or skills to homeschool to a high standard.’ For someone who has considered home education, you seem to be quite hostile towards it. Susan Wight has not suggested leaving bullies to their own devices, she has merely pointed out a viable and successful option for families dealing with the issue of bullying. Surely you are not one of these people who believes that being bullied builds character. The problem is not so simple as merely ‘dealing with the bully’, how would you suggest this is done? It is the school environment that fosters bullying, and it is not only the children that are bullied, teachers are bullied and parents are bullied. How this is to be fixed? I can give you no answers, but I salute the home educators for finding a better way.

Sargo, I understand what you are saying but many of us have worked with schools to address antisocial behavior, only to fail. The sad fact is we can't stamp out bullying in our schools. No policy as good as it sounds will remove the bullying

Homeeducators do in fact give their children the tools to deal with bullying behavior as adults, but we don't place them in a situation where they are systematically bullied to get the point.

I understand there are situations where parents can not HS to protect their children but the sad fact is in today's society that if the schools can't cope then we do have to protect our children and step up to the mark the best way we know how.

Removing our kids does make a difference, it changes their lives. I've dealt with bullies in schools and it doesn't matter what you do or whether you work with the school, implement strategies etc it clearly doesn't work. If it did there wouldn't be a mass bullying epidemic in our schools.

Bullying is never ok for anyone's child, but as I said to you nothing the victims do to solve the problem is accepted by schools or work. They don't have the tools and their are limits to how often or much they are involved.

Whilst I do agree that the bullies themselves need support and need help, the tools simply aren't in place to do so and I won't do it at the expense of my child and nor should anyone else.

Schools are limited as to what they can do to deal with bullies. We are not physiologists and nor should it be our job as parents to deal with the behavior of bullies.(nor can we do so legally). We can only follow the protocol of the ed department which inevitably comes to nothing.
For many of us Home education works,whatever our choice; school system or not we have a responsibility to raise children who treat others with dignity, respect and love

Way to go lilian. I have just stood up and said "enough..your track record is rotten, you have failed". The school system is not working. We hear all the time how a lot of primary aged children are illiterate, and yet the government wants us to conform to that system. I was bullied at school, on a small level, and that was bad enough. My number one priority just now is my children, their welfare, their education, their health. They are MY responsibility, and I believe no-one except a parent has a childs best interests at heart. Home educating is a wonderful, and at the moment, free, alternative for many reasons, including bullying. Why oh why does the goverment feel it their duty to take away the parents authority.

My son suffered from severe bullying at school. His life was miserable. Sometimes the bullying was overt. When teachers attempted to crack down on that, the bullying didn't stop, it just became more sneaky and went unnoticed by teachers. A child has a right to learn in a safe environment. He has a right to be able to eat his lunch without crouching on the ground, constantly looking over his shoulder and in a position ready to run.
I now home educate and have discovered that not only does home education provide the safe learning environment that we wanted but it provides a better environment for a child who loves to learn.
I am worried that the state government's proposed regulations on home education will make it difficult for concerned parents such as myself to rescue their children from a bullying situation and they will not be able to watch, as I have done, as their children blossom and learn in a safe environment.
The government needs to do something about bullying in schools but it should not block the exit to home education by unnecessary regulation. Parents have right to educate their children in the manner they think fit. I suspect the government only wants to regulate home education in order to limit the number of people who are exiting the failing state school system to take up this superior form of education.

Let's face it - what is natural about school? Children are placed in an institution, segregated with children only of their own age and often, their own class (eg. Middle, upper or lower) and sometimes religion. Segregation doesn't stop there, these children are then put into groups of 'high achievers' or 'remedial' students and in sports games divided according to ability/age. The list goes on. This doesn't take into account the needs of the specific child, emotional maturity or the natural need to be exposed to a diversity of ages, cultures and ideas. Instead it breeds a culture of 'dog eat dog' and extreme competitiveness with no focus on understanding, compassion and basic human decency. How can a child be expected to accept that someone is 'different' in their class if the whole school system is based upon differentiating everyone into small groups? They see this child is 'different' and shouldn't be there, so they take it in hand and as a bonus they get to be seen as the 'best' at what they do; bullying. Children are then forced into three streams; to bully, to conform to normality in a disturbing way, or to differ and be bullied. A very unnatural state of being that leaves many children to live with one of those beliefs for their whole life, hence marital violence, low self esteem, teen suicides and the need to keep up with the Joneses.

People have a need to socialise and learn from a wide range of sources. They cannot function appropriately in society without this. Home education appears to be the only option. Up until the last few centuries when the educational 'crusade' began, children learnt in a meaningful and wholesome way about the world around them from people who cared, gave them loving, but constant guidelines and the ability to be involved in the world, not disjointed from it. Before anyone jumps up and down about literacy and numeracy - these are things that can easily be taught at home by anyone with a basic ability.

As a parent my primary concern is my children's happiness, health and safety. If they are being bullied in school then I must be able to protect them in whichever way seems best, including withdrawing them to home educate them, if that is the path I choose. There is plenty of evidence that home education works, and that increased regulation of home schooling has no correlation with better outcomes.

I am concerned that the government's proposed legislation concerning home education would leave parents unable to protect their child from continuing bullying by withdrawing them from school: the child would have to stay in school until permission were granted to home educate. And as pointed out above, if the parents kept their child home for even a day's respite, they could be fined for truancy.

Governments and school boards have not been able to find a solution to or suitable prevention of bullying in schools for over 100 years. The likelyhood of them finding the answer now is slim to nil when, as some have commented, the solution lies not in the schools but with the parents. Those of us who home educate our children already know that and endeavour to lead our children by example. No one but ourselves have responsibility for our childrens behaviour and that is the way that we like it. On many occasions I have had complete strangers comment on my childrens manners and behaviour in public and I solely accredit this to the fact that they are home schooled. Now it seems that the State Government thinks it has the right to tell me the best way to make sure my children are conforming to 'their' minimum standards when in many ways they are failing miserably. If they would like to know how many of us are out here then fine, but keep your 'minimum standards' to yourself. Our children are bright, well mannered, considerate of others, talented and learning. They WILL be good citizens in their society and WE as parents are responsible for that.

In Queensland, Justice Roslyn Atkinson (2002) states that phenomena such as bullying in schools, herald a litigous future for Education Queensland. Brennan (2002) is a secondary school principal who has listed other factors contributing to similar concerns about dangers in schools. These concerns include: student violence, substance abuse, uncertainty as to values, student absenteeism, teacher absenteeism, and trespassing.

Such uncertainties have partially contributed to the growth of the home school movement across Australia.

Home education, however, is far more than an escape from some of the personal and social threats found in schooling. My research (Harding, 1997, 2003) indicates that parents have chosen home education for many positive reasons which include: the positive "real life" experiences home education provides; the positive learning environment home education provides, the positive social development gained through home education. Home educators do not want to risk their child's literacy and numeracy development; social development and values education to a system which can not guarantee good results.

Research globally indicates that home educated children around the world enjoy academic and social development "as good as, if not better than their traditionally schooled counterparts".

It is ironic to now see Victoria’s educational bureaucracy using bullying tactics upon the home educational community.

These bullying tactics reflect the following:
1. A complete lack of understanding of home education,
2. No reference to the global research into home education,
3. A predetermined agenda to extend the control of the State over the private family home,
4. A government agenda to control a form of pedagogy which is totally foreign to it,
5. A non-democratic contempt towards the home education community,
6. A plan to bulldoze the State's educational legislative process through to completion, as quickly as possible, whilst attracting the least possible public attention and
7. A plan to quash the most parent-honouring and freedom-loving Education Act in Australia.

I ask the Minister, to leave the Education Act unchanged, with respect to home education. It is an exemplar to all other state Education Acts. The Minister should be proud of it and protect it as it is.

I agree with Terry - and ask the minister to leave the education act alone. If Terry in Queensland can see its a good thing, why can't the Victorian Government see it. The governments of Australia haven't got it right yet and it seems like they have been practising with us for a long time. To the minister - For Once do the right thing, Don't make things worse.

The system is never going to find a solution to bullying whilst they have this "no blame" Policy in place. The purpose of this policy is to protect those employed by the system!! If a bully is not going to be blamed for his actions then by lack of action the actions of the bully are being supported. In essence the system supports the bullies and turns their backs on the victims and that is why so many people side with the bullies.

I have 2 children attending high school at present and two primary children being educated at home. I have educated 3 of my 4 children at home for different periods because of bullying - mainly by the teachers and the system. I would say that there are some parents out there, and I suffer from this problem, who do struggle to home school their children because of lack of confidence in their own abilities and lack of higher education. It’s not always a solution for everybody and it is not always as easy as it sounds. Some children love the independence of attending school and would rather not be home schooled but cannot cope with the torment and neglect they are exposed to at school. We shouldn't need to have to keep our children home in order for them to feel safe. The solution is simple - deal with bullies and bullying behaviour regardless of who they are or what position they hold!!

I wrote about my families issues on this site http://www.yourdemocracy.net.au/drupal/?q=node/858

I also have a blog called "Education Keeping them Honest" http://jolandachallita.typepad.com/education/ that deals with issues in the system. Before the system is able to deal with bullying in schools, they have to address the bullying within their ranks

I agree with Jolanda. Abuse often goes neglected within schools, because of the no-blame policy. A child I know well was severely and repeatedly sexually assaulted by students at her primary school and this was never apparently picked up by the teachers, despite going on under their noses. Her Mother, noticing changes in her behavior, even repeatedly enquired with the teachers as to whether there might be an issue, but they just blamed it on her temperament and ignored it. The young girl eventually told her mother; medical and psychological investigation confirmed the assaults. She is still recovering from the trauma and the boys involved are in the public system without any precautions taken to prevent recurrence, as this would impinge on the boys’ liberty. Many parents remove their children from school because of the lack of care and attention given by teachers, leaving bullying unchecked and letting many children with all sorts of issues just ‘fall through the cracks’. It is impractical to expect that the teacher to child ratio of 24:1 is sufficient to protect children and meet all their individual learning needs, despite the genuine efforts of most teachers.

I have heard much debate over the past few months about the need to regulate home education to prevent abuse occurring in homes, and there are laws in place to do just that. Many children are removed from abusive homes - why does the government want to impair our ability to remove our children from abusive or inappropriate school environments? There are no laws to adequately protect them there!

Obviously, Sajo, every child should be protected from bullying but the school system is unable to protect every child so surely we should be entitled to remove the child, immediately, without Government interference. We don't want any more Marie Bentham's.

I would love to be able to stop bullying across the board but personally I don't have any better options than the Education Department offers. It is not okay for other children to be bullied but my heart renders it necessary to stop it for MY children.

My children are 'my' responsibility, not the Governments, not the schools - MINE!

As to whether our adult children will meet up with bullies or not, if they do, they will meet them as confident adults who will not accept bullying and can take appropriate measures. Unfortunately many school age children do not have the capability to do that.

Di T

Thanks, Di T, I agree. No one wants bullying for anyone, but those parents who choose to take responsibility for their children's education should not be bullied by the education department.

I understand that the new Education Act in Victoria will put increased pressure on families who homeschool. It will also put increased pressure on the very many more families who do use schools, but who also judiciously use days off from school for rest and recreation and release the pressure for their children.

This new Education Act seems to me to be a very backward step for Victoria. And at this time, why? The Education Department are struggling to do a decent job of educating all the children who are already being sent to school. There is no sign of the social factors easing that make a teacher's work difficult and challenging. So why would the Ministry of Education be wanting to screw down the lid on the schools pressure cooker now?

I don't know!

David Arnold

I believe all children are born with a natural and compelling desire to learn and grow in knowledge and wisdom. In fact, it takes an incredible effort to knock this out of them! Yet school, despite the best efforts and intentions of many teachers, is the most effective way I know of to dampen and still that desire. It may be through bullying, or an unnatural social context, or a concept of norms which has little to do with individuals, or a system of times and obligations which pays little heed to the sponteneity and creativity of the child - however it does it, school manages very effectively to stifle enthusiasm and strangle the love of learning. At home, my children were able to enjoy a rich childhood unhindered by this intrusive unnatural external pressure. Those children are now responsible, thoughtful, well-balanced, wise and useful adults eager to take their place in the world. It would grieve me to see the future children of Victoria deprived of this kind of opportunity to experience the joy which comes from real education.

My son was at school for 8 years, he was bullied sometimes, and that contributed to our decision to homeschool, however he was not one of the main targets. He told me about one child at school, who was bullied by everyone, including the teachers. This unfortunate child was bullied so badly during one lunch hour that his arm was broken, the teachers did not believe he had a serious injury and one teacher even jerked his arm around, when he whimpered in response, she said it clearly wasn't broken because he would have been in more pain if it was. Apparently many children who are bullied by their peers, are also bullied (not protected) by the teachers.
My son was bullied, but fortunately not to this extent. However, after 8 years of school, I realised that he was unhappy and lacking confidence and his school life was the problem. I also realised that he had completely lost enthusiasm for two things he had always loved, reading and using his computer. Like many others, I had thought school was it, but at this time I came across Home Education. I realised that school was failing my son, and that we had nothing to lose so he left school. Since then he has changed completely, most importantly he is happy, I now realise that is something I hadn't seen for quite a while. He is much more confident, and much more competent. And, he has rediscovered his love of books.
We have had no problems home educating, we have an excellent local library, we have access to the internet, and we have life. What a change from the narrow confines of school.
Bullying will never be eradicated in schools, in fact it is obvious the problem is becoming worse with teachers now being victims as well as perpetrators, and students being killed, injured or suiciding.
However, bullying is only part of the home education story, there are many reasons to choose home educating, and one very obvious reason is that schools are superfluous in the information age we now live in.

Congratulations on the degree of concern expressed by all the respondents so far. If people are this concerned about bullying then a solution must eventually be found.
My children did not have serious issues with bullying when they were at school and it was not the reason they each chose to continue home education; (we don't do home school, that is something quite different).
The worst experiences they have suffered with bullying has been at a local youth group. The same children who were recognised as the bullies at school were also the bullies at this group, so we moved to another club. It seemed the only way for my children to continue their involvement in the activity without the nuisance and distress of bullying behaviour. Why would parents not remove their child from a hostile environment?
(Note: one of the bullies at school was rewarded by being made a House Vice-captain. Is that the anti-bullying protocol in practice?)
If home education is not for you, there are other options. Look around and you will be surprised what is out there when you take off the school system blinkers. But please, please, Mr Bracks, do not take away our right to home educate our own children. Rmember, if it ain't broke, don't fix it!

Being a father of 4, 1 from a previous marriage who is in the public system and 3 who are home educated, I am in a privileged position to have been able to see first hand the great divide between the two educational styles.

I see my eldest who is at school being taught not to be inquisitive. Everything is in black and white and must be done 'the right way'. This has spilled over into her artwork where she was once quite talented and now is so focused on doing it 'right' that it is now just like everyone else’s and has none of the originality she so enjoyed prior to school. She has little self esteem and no longer enjoys any activity unless her peers condone it. She experiences stress in talking to children of different ages, shows disrespect for the elderly and will not play with children 'below her', not even her siblings, instead treating them with contempt. I see her being 'dumbed down' and no matter what I try to do to help her maintain her originality and individualism, everything is lost in the great abyss of conformity. She even loses her faith in her capability due to trying something once, getting it slightly 'wrong', being teased for it and then simply believing that she can't do it. As a pre-schooler, she was bright, motivated, caring and original, now I just see a tortured little brick of conformity.

As a stark comparison, my children from my second marriage are bright, inquisitive and original. The have high self esteem and are comfortable talking with people of any age and social status/culture. They approach new ideas/learning opportunities with enthusiasm and an expectation of understanding. They enjoy every day of life without being afraid of what others think of them. They are thoughtful, caring and though not always perfect, acknowledge others feelings and take care to look after them.

Do we really want the next generation of Australians to be mindless drones, stuck in classes and stereotypes? Where do you think all the racial tension is arising from?

Lets revisit the very notion of schools and schooling.

If we were to design a place to educate and socialise our children would we call it a school, or something else? Are teachers the only people who can educate children?

I was bullied at school and I was guilty of bullying others. But I soon saw the error of my ways and sort justice for those who were bullied. Its how I as a child rationally thought I should survive what was otherwise a very boring and yet authoriarian place.

Susan Wight brings to our attention some very important issues not just about schooling but about the society we want our children to inherit from us. That it also contains schools is something we should ask them to decide whether or not they are the relevant or humanitarian.

To Lynne Kosky: Home education is as much a civil right as the right to vote, and because we are a rising minority the need is now arising to squash it. Has Australia become so intolerant and afraid? Really what threat are we? Perhaps we might share too many of our Non GM vegies with you, or perhaps your children might hear about us and want to come home too? All we are doing is what is best for our children and what has been proven to be best for children over the centuries and in almost every country of the world.

I am not an extremist, I am a 4WD catholic (maybe atheist, still trying to decide), work a 50 hour a week job, eat, drink, have a mortgage, love my kids and I put my pants on one leg at a time like everyone else! The only thing that makes me different is my desire to give my children a choice – and I will do everything in my power to make sure they have the legal right. Anyone in support of home education needs to start writing to their local State MP’s and to newspapers to ensure our valuable way of life is not lost. Do we want to end up like the home educators in other states, hiding from the registration ‘police’ and living in a constant state of stress? Let’s make sure our laws stay as they are, and are there to enable freedom in the method of choice of our children’s education without unnecessary red tape and restrictive conditions.

Well done Terry Harding. I agree the legislation does reflect a total lack of understanding of home education, and indeed a total disrespect of parents’ rights in general.
With parents forced to keep their children in school all the hours it is open for instruction, they will be unable to take them on holidays during school time. Many parents are unable take time off during the school holidays, so they will be unable to holiday with their own children when they choose to. Additionally many will not be able to take extended vacations overseas or tour around Australia.
There is a hidden antagonism towards parents implicit in this legislation. I agree with many of the comments here; that it is almost as if the Bracks’ Government thinks parents unqualified to raise their own children. Schools and governments have no right to intrude upon families in this way.
The Government’s State School system has provided a substandard education for our children. Home Education is proven to be successful, and the Government should not be legislating against them, or making them conform to an outdated and inefficient system

Education in the public market place (ie State Schools, Non-State Schools, State Schools of Distance Education) is a public affair. As a public activity it ought to be regulated as it is funded by the taxpayer. The Minister for Education has a responsibility to the people of Victoria for this public education.

Education at home is a private family matter. It is the responsibility of the parents, not the State. If parents wish the education of their children to be the Minister's responsibility, they may delegate that responsibility to the Minister by enrolling their children in schools, as is the practice of most Victorians.

However, if parents wish to take the full responsibility for the education of their children, they have the right to do so and that is done without the Minister's permission. This status in law ought not to be changed in Victoria.

The State wants to give home educators 2 things:
1. Permission to exist.
2. Permission regarding curriculum and academic methods

The State does not have the power to give these 2 things to home educators. The Victorian Education Act already empowers parents in regard to these matters.

If Victorians give the Minister permission to give them permission to home educate, they give the Minister permission to deny them permission to home educate, and they give the Minister permission to give them permission about how they home educate. Do not throw away freedom.

I do not have to ask the State for permission for my wife to have a baby and for us to raise it, nor do I have to ask the Health Department's permission to prepare and cook meals in my own home. I do agree that the Health Department should oversee the running of public restaurants, as they serve the public sector. However, what takes place in my home nutritionally, is a private matter, which my wife and I are responsible for. This allocation of the authority of parents and the State in the private and public sectors is true for both nutrition and education

Terry

I agree with you that the right to home school must not be compromised. However I also believe that every child has a right to an education at least as good as that available in the public school system. Fortunately most parents who homeschool try to give their children the best education possible and many succeed. However some just don't see the point in high academic standards. It is not sufficient that children are able only to read and write it is also in their interests to achieve as high an academic standard as they are capable of. (I appreciate that some schools seem to have problems with this concept too before the barrage of objections starts). Therefore it is necessary that the government retains the right to determine whether parents are suitably skilled and resourced to do the job on an individual basis. I was under the impression that the current Education Act is adequate in this respect in which case I support your moves to keep the status quo. If there are moves to change the NSW Act then I will be writing to my MP. But - I still do not think it is every parents right to homeschool their children unless they can prove that they are able to maintain an acceptable standard. Yes we are responsible for our children but we do not own them.

In 2 days time it will be an ELECTION YEAR !

I was bullied, I did NOT bully, I was tortured, I did NOT torture.
The only solutions to bullying I ever saw or experienced, were either the humiliation of the bully in front of the school, or a bunch of 5s to re-arrange his face.

The stupid mamby pamby softly softly "Lets reason with them" and "lets talk about boundaries and opportunities" etc.. sounds good in theory, but usually has little effect. I think some anti bullying policies include a ramping up of sanctions to the point of expelling the bully, but most bullys are prepared to threaten a lengthy stay in hospital (I'll get you near your house after school) kind of thing.

So, it usually goes in loopy cycles and round and round and buck passing.

I have another very original and ancient solution to this ugly problem.

Deuteronomy 21:18
18 If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, 19 his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. 20 They shall say to the elders, "This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a profligate and a drunkard." 21 Then all the men of his town shall stone him to death. You must purge the evil from among you. All Israel will hear of it and be afraid.

The principle here is very clear, even if the 'details' may seem a bit over the top to us today.

The principle is that the community must deal with such behavior in a decisive and no nonsense manner. We have authorities who are entrusted with this responsibility. The problem is, usually the symptom or the peripheral issue is dealt with, like the School's bullying policy is attacked rather than the bully himself. I think, cut the bull, and go straight for the root.

Some newcomers to Home Education groups who have recently been taken out of school can exhibit undesirable traits such as exclusion, discrimination and belligerence. They soon find out from the other children that these skills are unnecessary for survival in a HE environment, and that the adults are not their ‘enemy’. The exposure of HE children to others of differing age, ability, sex and background develops their skills for real-world cooperation and removes any need for schoolyard politics
The HE environment is more than capable of developing the skills required to tackle any bullies our children may encounter in adult life.

Why is it so many people believe one can only obtain an education at school, when school is to education what fast food is to nutrition

Yes, Sajo, I agree with you: we are responsible for our children but we do not own them. So the major skills needed for Home Education are a belief in our children's innate passion to learn and to understand, a willingness to relearn most of our own existing ideas on what constitutes education, and a readiness to follow where our children lead. Because, if we are open to enlightenment, we find it is our children who teach us. Not having been conditioned by the school system they have a huge advantage over us. They are so much more confident, more resourceful, more knowledgeable about what their real needs are, and more innovative in finding ways to meet them, than we can ever be, no matter whether our background is in teaching or academia or whatever. So a 'suitable' Home Ed parent needs confidence, humour, commonsense, open-mindedness, and, above all, faith in the children. Given these things (and not a little patience) they can offer the children the space and air needed to achieve - in their own time, at their own pace, and in their own direction - levels of satisfaction and success their parents could hardly have imagined possible.

Home Education has saved the lives and is saving the lives of thousands of children and teenagers every year in this country both mentally and physically. The public are afraid of it mainly through the fault of myth and misinformation. Teachers are afraid of it because it may mean their redundancy. Governments are afraid of it because they have no control over it. Business is afraid of it because public education is big business. Corporations are afraid of it because just maybe these well educated young people will think twice about selling their integrity to the highest bidder and will look upon the problems of the world with compassion instead of greed in their eyes!
For the sake of the environment and the diversity of the human race we are in desperate need of a new way of educating our children. Let’s give this a go! Institutionalised schooling has had its day in the sun – it’s our turn now!

Very good point Terry, the State Government’s proposed Education Act is very anti family.
With the new legislation stating that children have to remain in school all the time it is open for instruction, this will add terribly to the stress that families already face. Families are finding it increasingly difficult in this day and age to find time to spend with each other. Adults are having to work longer hours, and often are unable to take their holidays during the term break. It is a shame that parents are now being legislated against in this manner, where they will simply not be able to take their children on holiday when they choose, or they will be forced to degradingly ask for permission to spend time with their own children.
It is interesting that when the State Government is asked to explain the more questionable parts of their new Education Act, they say that it is their intention for a light touch. Well if this is their intention, why does their legislation sound like something out of a George Orwell novel.
I have read in the paper that they will try and push this legislation through during the Commonwealth Games when all are preoccupied. As they released the Exposure Draft just before the Christmas holidays to ensure minimal debate, this doesn’t surprise me at all.
If the Government are truly trying to legislate in our best interests, why are they trying to push through this Act in such an underhand manner

I don't know why so many people believe that putting a child in with 100 or so others will give them social skills. Schools isolate children from the community, restrict them to mixing with their peers, without guidence in an unatural environment, where all the adults are authorities. This only fosters communication problems, social problems and bullying.

Home educated children have great social skills because they develop in the community, where with guidence from parents, they mix with their peers, adults, the elderly, toddlers and babies. They understand how the community works, can relate to it and deal with it.

I was 5 in 1939 and couldn't go to school until I was 6, as the school had been taken over by the British Army as temporary barracks. My mother had only a basic education, but she was a naturally smart woman and taught me my times tables up to 12, basic reading and writing and simple outline drawing. When I went to school, I already knew what we were being taught, so I was continually moved up [as was the style in those days] and got a free scholarship to an otherwise very expensive private school when I was 10. [They are called "Public Schools" in England.]

The headmaster of the primary school was a psychotic bully, both physically and psychologically. He would not be tolerated today, but in those days he was regarded as a brilliant school principle, because of the unusually high number of scholarship achievers at his school. We were all so glad to get away from him!

My new school was supposed to be run on "Christian" lines, but was a hot-bed of bullying, snobbery and class distinction. I was the youngest and smallest boy in the class and was also a poor kid at a rich kids' school. Physical bullying was rife and was frequently done openly in front of the teachers. It was considered "good form" to accept the bullying and unacceptable to "sneak", ie report it to the teachers. Some of the teachers joined in with psychological bullying. I honestly believe that, despite their high academic qualifications, some of the teachers were too stupid to understand the implications of their actions.

Despite my small size, I was naturally strong and agile and learnt to use my feet, knees, fingers and any heavy object I could lay my hands on, so I generally got left alone. I never started a fight, so I wasn't concerned at how I finished it

[cont]

Despite my small size, I was naturally strong and agile and learnt to use my feet, knees, fingers and any heavy object I could lay my hands on, so I generally got left alone. I never started a fight, so I wasn't concerned at how I finished it.

For various reasons, I was generally popular at school and was never short of friends. But I absolutely detested school, from the day I started until the day I left. In those days, we had to stay at school in England until we were 15. At my mother's prompting, I managed to hang in until I matriculated before I was 16. Then I was happy to go to work and earn some money.

Home teaching was not an option in our family. My father was well educated, but drank, smoked and gambled too much and my mother had to work to cover his excesses. And when I was 14, he was diagnosed with [self-inflicted] lung cancer. I don't know if home education was an option in those days anyway.

I don't think any of that did me any lasting harm, maybe because I'm logical and resilient by nature. But I'm quite sure that it was far from an ideal school experience. [And thank goodness I started to grow after I was 16 and finished up quite tall!]

I don't know if I've contributed to this topic in any constructive way. I just read what others were saying and it all came flooding back.

Lyn makes an interesting point that schools have had their day.
The decline in literacy, and numeracy alone must prove that as an institution dedicated to educating our young, the school system is seriously failing.
I do not see how bringing in new laws to control Home Education will fix the falling standards in our State Schools.
It is interesting that the Bracks' Government’s attempt to fix the ailing school system is to introduce more bureaucracy at the tax payers' expense

Rex makes a good point, England has had a major problem with bullying and class and sociall segregation for a long time. They were extremly intolerent of those who are different. This is the system Australia has modelled itself upon politically and schoolarly throughout our history. Now the government is about to pass a law is nothing new- it is similar to what England passed a few years back. Tryancy officers in England have the right to stop children in the streets and question them.They have the power to come into your home,children who home educate carry an I.D card that states they do not have to answer questions.This sounds like remanants of Hitlers regime.This is the law our government is trying to force on us.Have they asked for public opinion - NO; have they openly informed us of this _ NO; Do they have the right as our elected representitives to do this _ ONLY if WE let them. Stop them eroding our country any more, let them know how you feel, write to your local member and any politician you voted for.2006 is an election year, let them know this issue will be reflected at the polling booths. They have made laws and schooled our children and then act surprised when the bullyies took over Cronulla.The government and their bad desicions for decades have affected children and this is the public result. They can't pretend anymore. It's time for us to stop them.

RE the comments about children 'running away' from bullying by home educating: when people feel loved, worthy, inherently good, they have no need to attack anyone. One purpose of home education is to build a strong self-worth. Just as some parents prefer not to give their children sugar and processed food in their first seven years while they are establishing their tastes - a child who has only experienced natural foods will naturally reject the doctored foods that our food industry is serving up because his/her taste instincts have not been perverted. Same with home education: a child who has been nurtured will naturally treat others with interest and respect.

Regarding socialisation: to be socialised means to fit in with society, i.e. a range of ages, nationalities, religions, skills, genders, etc., not a school class of 30 same-age peers. Children who are home educated play and learn in the 'classroom of life', meeting and interacting with a wide variety of people. They are noted for their ability to relate to a range of ages.

It sees a great pity to me that the overnment feels the need to control home education while they are struggling to keep their own house in order.

Quote "The sad fact is we can't stamp out bullying in our schools. No policy as good as it sounds will remove the bullying" Actually there is a simple policy that will remove bullying from schools. it goes like this.
The bully plays up once they are taken out of class & drilled as to why they did it.
Bully plays up again the parents are called in & told this is the bully's last chance.
Bully plays up a third time & they are thrown out of school!
The parents can then transfer the bully to a special school that, so to speak, puts all our bullies in one basket. End of problem.
Secondly here are a few problems with home schooling that, as much as I admire the movement haven't been addressed.
1. Antiquated jug to mug approach to education
2. Lack of diversity of views [particularly so among extreme religious groups where ONLY there own views will be taught. The child grows up thinking that either those views are the oviously correct views or that any other views are stupid].

Hello,

I am happy to see another article in the 'mainstream' media on home education. I am writing an article on tertiary entrance options and procedures for homeschoolers to be published in Education Choices Magazine. http://www.educationchoices.com.au

I have homeschooled for a decade and my son is now a university student (previously distance courses now seeking on campus place). Our story was recently featured in Sunday Life Magazine. The article I am currently writing for Education Choices has a short deadline and I am seeking to hear from homeschoolers who intend to go to TAFE or uni, who are currently enrolled or have previously studied at this level. For more information could you please visit the following url where you can read more about the intended article.
http://rosiereal.blogspot.com/2005/12/tafe-uni-entrance-for-homeschoolers.html

http://rosiereal.blogspot.com/2005/12/university-entrance-for-home-educated.html
This is a good opportunity for homeschoolers to let the tertiary education sector know how they can improve their admission information and procedures for home educated students. These institutions will be contacted for research purposes for this article.
Thanks
Rosie Williams
BA (Sociology)

What a simplistic view of life you have Bosk. Sadly in the real world the streamlined simplified approach that you espouse does not happen, and even if it did would not be effective as most bullying goes undetected.
Your views on the problems with home education tend to display a common ignorance. Home educated children do not mix only with their parents. Home educators mix in large groups on a weekly basis, the groups are extremely diverse as many come to home education for a variety of reasons. Additionally most home educated children are actively involved in their local communities. Many also do activities such as sport, ballet, art, etc. They mix with a large variety of people on a daily basis. They are exposed to a far greater diversity of opinion than children stuck in a classroom with one teacher and 25 same age peers

Our daughter is a happy, loving, giving, child. She displays compassion, empathy and caring traits to all and everyone. She is forgiving and tolerant, but will not accept any wrongdoing towards any person and will take appropriate measures to ward off anti-social behaviour from others and to protect those being bullied. She has high self-esteem and believes that she is a worthwhile person and has a lot to give to society. She has a brilliant sense of humour and is highly artistic. Our daughter was diagnosed with ADHD, ODD, and Pervasive Developmental Disorder when she was attending school. Her school reports were full of comments along the lines of “….. is a disruptive and negative influence on the classroom….” “… will not conform to the rules of the classroom …” “cannot sit still and be quiet…” . Her teachers informed us that she was a target for the bullies. At the end of 3 years of schooling (both public and private), she could not read, write or count. For her fourth year of school, she was still to be in Grade 1, having spent 2 years in Preps and one year in Grade 1 already. The “system” had failed our daughter totally and completely. This is one of the reasons that we home-educate our child. The other reason for our home-education is bullying. Our daughter was bullied in 2 different schools, and to a great degree. She would come home from school in tears, with physical and mental injuries. After three years, two schools and “Anti-Bullying Policies” our dauther was spiralling into suicidal depression, for which she was seeing a child pyschologist on a weekly basis, this tipped our decision in favour of home-education. Our daughter is free to learn at home, and in the community, without fear of ridicule, without fear of reprimand and without fear of her safety. Our daughter is able to interact socially with her all members of society – regardless of age, class, race or creed – without prejudice. Our daughter is alive, which is something that we believe is totally due to her home-education.

claddagh. My youngest son is very sensitive and he cannot cope at school at all, he is on Distant Education at the moment on psychological and medical grounds. It’s not just when he is bullied and/or treated unfairly that is the problem, but also when other children are targeted – he cares so much. He found school so stressful and depressing, he became sick. He says that the teachers do nothing and many are psychological bullies especially to the students that they don’t particularly like. There is a lot of favoritism and discrimination going on. Students with ADHD and the like are targeted as are those of certain ethnic backgrounds. Children like mine who stand up for themselves and publicly complain, even though they know that they will be victimized and bullied for it, and who cannot sit back and do nothing are also targeted. My children have been to 5 different schools and the younger one says that it isn't getting better - it is getting markedly worse.

I think that your daughter and all children who were removed from school because of these issues are very lucky to have parents who are open minded; parents should protect their children from neglect and abuse as if we don’t protect them –who will? Nothing good can come out of being in an environment where you are not treated with respect, are not validated and where you are seen as insignificant, and worse still when nobody cares enough to do anything about it.

As a parent every time my children were not happy we either moved schools or they stayed home and were home schooled until we found an alternative. My children refused to go to a school where they didn’t feel safe and where they felt they were wasting their time. They go to school to learn, not to be abused. One problem has been the attitude from other parents in relation to the moves etc. I was branded a pushy crazy mother for protecting my children and responding to their needs and we were ostrasized by the community!

Have you ever met anyone who wasn't a victim of bullying at school, or on the way to or from school? My mother's answer was to learn to ignore bullies, which I did, and this behaviour was largely successful. As a young mum I even gave this advice to my children when they encountered bullies. But it's not an answer; it's actually an appalling solution that simply perpetuates the problem.

Luckily my children, once they reached school age, rarely encountered bullies, and when they did they were in settings where they were surrounded by caring adults who quickly intervened. We weren't perfect parents, and some of us were bullies ourselves. But most of us weren't, and together as a group we were discovering and sharing with each other a new set of social skills, based on cooperation and collective as well as personal responsibility instead of competition and individualism.

The difference between the social environment we inhabited and the environment of school is that ours was voluntary: we could choose to be there at that particular time. We didn't have to be. No one, no law, forced us to associate with each other in a particular way at a particular time. Our children knew this. They knew that is was okay to walk away and ignore the bullies if they chose. They knew that if they asked for, or needed, help adults or peers would rally around and help them resolve the situation. They knew that part of that process would involve taking care of the bully's needs, as well as the victim's. They knew that all everyone really wanted was to get along, but that it's not always easy and that learning how to takes time.

I've spent twenty years fostering the development of this voluntary community: the homeschooling community. If you're interested in any aspect of homeschooling, try Googling the word "homeschool" or visit Homeschool Australia http://homeschoolaustralia.beverleypaine.com

Advance Australia Fair? Standby apathy is a cultural by-product of “structural violence”.

We clobber “whistle blowers” or anyone who does not conform to “Ocker” images, where the “mateship” archetype is in total denial. Antic’s like don’t “rock-the-boat”, “don’t-cause-trouble”…”she’ll-be-right-mate”, “I’m okay-it’s-okay” means the problems we face at community and ground levels are over ridden by a “conqueror and divide” mentality... “out of control”!

We, are a shrinking community resource, we have become a culture AFRAID to “stand-up” for the “outsider”, where the person/s found defending themselves (for what ever reason) more often are “scapegoat” because to stick-up for the “other” , who may not be “ya mate/s” means, we might get hurt as well. Don’t-get-involved-the latest impartial catch-cry!

I am sad to read Marie Bentham’s story. I pray for her family, and all those trying to survive this type of experience – single-handedly!

I believe issues in “Crime Prevention and Mental Health” are at an all time high. I believe as Australians, we have lost the meaning of “Fair-Go” and this is being “Acted-Out” in the school play ground, as a reproductive cycle of family and community violence, which reflects also; the increasing level of “structural violence” coming down from governments.

Bullying I believe is a “leadership” issue. I am not surprised to see the local Council, as quoted in this Susan Wrights article announcing, “There was nothing to raise any serious concerns”. No matter where we look in this country today… we find poor “intelligence gathering” based on refutation and cover-ups. Like the kids at school (reactive), we in society are left struggling at ground levels in a cultural conflict that discriminates wholesale against anything other than what is meant by civilized.

The culture of bullying is a serious “social ill”, an evil in transference rotating its depleted source; “anxiety, headaches, nausea, ulcers, sleeplessness, lack of confidence, isolation, depression, post-traumatic stress disorder, flashes of anger and hostility”… to and fro - between victim and perpetrator.

Stand-Up Australia, we need to get back to BASICs! People need people, which is more than “crisis talks”, targeting the short lame answer.

It seems that the majority of posters here have had very bad experiences with the school system. Anyone reading these posts would think that all school children are thugs in the making and should be avoided at all costs. I know a lot of parents from my own childrens public primary school and numerous other local schools and have not come across a single case of anything more than very minor bullying. I dare say it happens but is by no means common at least in primary schools.

My childrens school takes bullying very seriously and has a continuous program running from Kindergarten and reinforced every year that encourages the children to report every instance of bullying and it is addressed promptly every time. The older children know lots of the younger ones through a buddy system and I could not have imagined a nicer bunch of children. In fact the children are happy, well adjusted with plenty of self esteem - something that is not restricted to homeschooled childen.

The point is it is possible to address bullying in schools but it takes a committment from parents and teachers to make it happen. This may not work so well in high school but hopefully the children will know how to deal with it by then. Maybe I have been lucky and no doubt soem schools are worse than others but as far as I can tell bullying is not becoming an epidemic among our schools - in fact I believe it was far worse in my, my parents and grandparents generations when teachers either ignored or encouraged it. I know of no teacher nowadays who would tolerate or encourage bullying.

This thread has been very interesting. It is good to see actual discussion take place, rather than personal invective.

Sajo has a very good point to make. While bullying is a problem in schools and the workplace it doesn't mean we should throw in the towel and school all children from home. My niece and nephew attend primary school and both are doing well. Essentially shy children until they get to know you, they have not been targetted by bullies and I understand from my sister that the school has a program in place similar to that described by Sajo.

However, as a child I was subjected to verbal and physical bullying - I can only dream of what a difference home schooling would've made to me.

As with most issues there is no single answer. I agree with the posters who have found success with home schooling that they should have every support to continue. However, our public schools deserve every bit of support they can get - including support for programs to deal with bullying.

I don't believe kids have to be bullies - sure there are some very demanding kids, it is the responsibility of parents to ensure that their child isn't a menace to others.

I would be interested in ways to assist parents of bullies - my experience has shown that these parents tend to be bullies themselves (although not always).

Home education may be the answer for some but not for all.

Scout is right... wherever education occurs - at home or at school - it needs community support.

It is important to urge our politicians to consider all new regulations and laws carefully so that they don't inadvertantly adversely affect practices that are already achieving the goals such regulation or legislation seeks.

Beyond the administration of regulation regarding registration or similar of home education provision there is no support from any government department for parents choosing this option (for whatever reason). You are either within the system as the state sees fit to prescribe it, or you are on your own. It's difficult enough to homeschool already: regulation and legislation designed to protect school kids should not, through lack of forethought and consideration, penalise homeschooling kids.

Discussions such as this raise community awareness. Anything that raises awareness of bullying in the community, and any possible solutions, has merit.

Miacat wrote:

The culture of bullying is a serious “social ill”, an evil in transference rotating its depleted source; “anxiety, headaches, nausea, ulcers, sleeplessness, lack of confidence, isolation, depression, post-traumatic stress disorder, flashes of anger and hostility”… to and fro - between victim and perpetrator.

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This sounds like the workplace these days. A problem for all of us. It seems the more technical education we get the less socially educated we are.

Chris 1
Quote "What a simplistic view of life you have Bosk. Sadly in the real world the streamlined simplified approach that you espouse does not happen, and even if it did would not be effective as most bullying goes undetected." A few points.
1) My "streamlined ideas" come not from a "simplistic" approaxh to discipline but from several years experience at both the primary and secondary level Chris. How's about you?
2) This approach HAS been adopted & has WORKED in a number of schools. I have seen bullying plummet from a serious problem to almost ZERO in a matter of months. The buddy approach as has been mentioned is also incredibly effective in reducing bullying.
3) Bullying is NOT undetected. I'm afraid you don't know what you're talking about. It is underreported but almost every teacher in a school KNOWS who the bullies are.
The sad fact is that bullying is caused by a poor home environment. Either a) Parents who ignore their child, either by choice or necessity & so if the child cannot get positive attention then he or she will try for some negative attention. Better negative attention than to be ignored.
Or b) the child is modelling himself/herself on the bullying seen at home.
Quite often bringing the child & parents in & getting them to realise the seriousness of the situation & the possible consequences if the child continues [i.e. this is what's happening & if it continues your child will be expelled] will, in many cases, put it right [especially if the bullying is caused through neglect]. But, if it doesn't then the school, I would argue, has a duty of care to protect the remaining children. That means kick out the bully! I'm sorry if you find the FACTS inconvenient Chris but such a policy has already worked.
More later.

Hi Bosk. My wife has her Masters in Education and is working towards her Doctorate. She is very experienced in the area of bullying. When I showed her your comment, she actually also said it was a simplistic view, and that schools and teachers often hide behind this ‘zero tolerance’ approach.
I must say you are displaying a great deal of anger at someone expressing an opinion contrary to your own.

Dear Bosk
I'm glad that have have been able to deal with bullying so effectively in your school. However, the fact remains that the majority of schools deal with bullying in either an ad hoc manner or with a determined adherence to their bullying policy whilst failing to protect the bullied child. Bullying certainly varies from school to school by as much as four or five times but is part of the system.

I witnessed my own son being chased around the school yard by two children with a lump of wood with nails in it. I had a toddler by the hand and a baby on the hip and was unable to do anything but call out whilst attemmpting to give chase. On this occasion, my son was literally saved by the bell. When I reported this incident to the teacher on duty she claimed that she had thought my son was in a game of chasey. She promised to 'deal with' the incident and, as a parent I was given no further satisfaction than that. I later found out through a friend in the staff room that the bullies had been asked to fill in a form about the incident, they were given no reprimand and that their parents had not even been informed. It was a long way from being the first incident between these two bullies and my son.

There are many benefits of home education but the safety of my children certainly ranks very highly for me. The school system was unable to guarantee them even the semblance of safety.

Thank you to all posters

I have found this discussion to be fascinating reading. I knew that bullying was a problem, but I had no idea that the problem was so great. I also did not realise that home schooling has become so common as a result of overt bullying.

I now have a great referral point for my friend, whose child has autism and ADHD. Her child regularly gets suspended from school because of his behaviours. I get the impression that there may be bullying from teachers, rather than peers. He has had 75 days off school this year! His mother said that when he is home and she teaches him whilst he is suspended, that he does quite well. She has three other children under nine years and has no support from her ex-husband.

Any input on the above scenario would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks
Happy New Year to All!
Kay

Dear Bosk,
Alas, methinks the Antiquated Jug to Mug Education must be in your school, for I have home educated for ten years and never heard of it. As for the Lack of Diversity of Views, I wonder how many school educated children are aware of this forum, I know for a fact that a huge number of home educated children are activly involved.

The forthright rhetoric displayed in your articles are, I believe narrow and blinkered, but thats what schools teach best is'nt it?
"Many have made trade of delusions and false miricles, deceiving the stupid multitude" LDV

Lastly, your point about kicking the school bullies out - could'nt agree more! A short spell in the home educating community would cure them of all their ills I'm sure

Dear Tony
referring to your wifes education in order to demonstrate Bosks 'simplistic' solutions, reminds me of something I faced at Bible College. There were many students who were doing 'higher degrees' and learning all about 'Form Criticism' and all manner of ways where people sought to show how the Scriptures are not what they say they are. (Gods Word). Then, I went out as a missionary into Tribal Borneo. We had a saying. "All the theological degrees in the world don't mean squat if u cannot (in Christ) cast out a demon"

Putting this back into the forum context. Bosk has shown an approach which is backed up by his own personal experience, and is workable.
Why even bother speaking about someone elses education in the light of this ? Where it all counts, is where the rubber meets the road, in the school etc.

Please don't see this as any kind of attack or put down, I just don't think you gave Bosk adequate credit for his contribution.

Possibly the anger you perceive in Bosks post, is in fact anger at the 'system' which allows Bullying to go unchallenged, and it is anger on behalf of the kids who become victims, not so much at those here who have a different view ?

Hi Kay,

A good place for your friend to start is by finding her local home ed network. In Victoria it is the Home education Network and you can access the site at the following link http://www.home-ed.vic.edu.au/ There are many families with Autistic and ADD children who home educate (mine included) and it can have some really astounding effects. Simply having a solid home base for the children, allowing a routine and continuity of support and expectations makes all the difference in my experience.

I have an autistic sister, nephew, niece, and child. I have seen first hand the difference home education came make for children with a different way of thinking; it's all positive! There are some great articles in the HEN mag - 'Otherways' to do with Autism and ADD and I would really recommend suggesting them to your friend even if she is interstate. There are also home-ed contacts on the site and many, including myself who would be happy to email or chat.

Take care

Gen

This is just for a bit of a laugh....

Did anyone see the South Park episode where the WallMart came along took over/destroyed all the small businesses in town ? Then, Stan and Kartman and the others tried to 'kill' the 'evil Wallmart' by finding its economic jugular vein and attacking it. Anyway.. they succeeded in 'killing' the Wallmart and all the strip shops began to prosper again.. specially hardware shops.. in fact.. the main one prospered so MUCH it had to expand to provide space for all the former Wall Mart customers.. and this happened again.. and again.. until finally it grew into.....
A NEW WALLMART :)

Fine as the Home Ed network is, and will continue to be I'm sure. It is starting to get a life of its own, and will in due course I guess have a bigger and bigger network beurocracy...and become another..EDUmart ? :) I wonder who will be the H.E.N. Minister for Curriculum ?

I presume we are only talking about junior school, as with our current assessment methods, how can home schooled kids qualify for uni. Very few parents could supply the range of subjects my kids wanted in high school.
My father was a company trouble shooter, so I went to 17 schools.
As the new chum, I was bullied at each new school. When I was 8 my father took me to a gym, & had me taught to box, & then to fight. At my next school I took out the first 2 bullies. When I did not take over the bully roll, the bullie's followers did not know what to do, & the system collapsed.
The same thing happened at the next couple of schools.
My next experience with bullying was when my daughter was 8 & was punched as she got off the school bus. When it happened again, I made some arrangements.
The next day, when the bus stopped, at our country stop, I was waiting with a borrowed 10 Ft stock whip over my sholder. I had never touched a stock whip, but I was the only one who knew that.
I will never forget the look of fear, & horror on the face of the bus drivers face as I climbed on the bus.
Not knowing who the bully was, I looked down the bus & said, "I can take a bot fly off a horse with this". "Put your bloody hands in your pocket, & keep them there". "If ever I hear of you punching anyone again, I'll chop your ears off with this, & jam them down your throat".
For the next 2 years, anyone with a bully problem, had my daughter threaten the bully with my whip.
The only way to stop any bully is with strength, & the fear of retribution. By comming down hard, you not only save the bullied, but the bully as well. Perhaps its time to give the school principal back his cane, in the interest of all concerned.

Let's face it the epidemic of bullying is too important for any parent, teacher, or adminstrator to ignore. For those who are interested in suggesting a bullying program to the schools that works, I have one. The Compass Program is being given to schools at no charge, it only needs to be requested.
If we become involved and work together it is amazing what a difference we can make. We need to hold students accountable for their actions otherwise how will learn about responsibility.

The Compass Program is available at www.stoppingschoolviolence.com let your school know.

When my youngest began high school he was excited and happy to be moving on from primary school to the next stage of his life. He'd been School Captain in Year 6, a bright and studious boy, organised, kind and respectful. Bullying began the day he went for high school orientation, when he was punched in the stomach by an older boy during lunch, unseen of course by any staff. The first week of high school saw it resume in almost daily incidents by a couple of class bullies, one who came from primary school already in an established gang - teasing, intimidation, breaking of his pencils, cut up pencil cases & ruined zippers, school bag kicked, thrown and ripped, lunch snatched out of his hands and thrown in the dirt, hard slaps or punches to the head as bullies ran by, ears pulled, legs stuck out as he walked by so that he tripped, phone calls at home, etc. My son, early on, was fairly horrified by all this behaviour and reported various incidents to the staff. Then, as he felt little or nothing was being done, he told me and I/we spoke to staff. It reached the point where he didn't say anything to the teachers or assistant principals or me as he feared further, more sneaky, attacks. He became depressed, withdrawn, despondent, and his academics were suffering greatly.

It was months of slow and consistent eroding of his confidence and self esteem. Classes were changed, programs were put in place but not effective. The gang ended up throwing him against a brick wall and issued a death threat. My son was advised by the school, for his safety, to remain in either the library or a special classroom during all breaks. The bully and his gang were supposedly not allowed to enter these rooms at any time (but did manage it on a couple of occasions) but apparently were allowed the run of the rest of the school which left me wondering who was the one being punished here.

To be continued

Continued…
No staff/AP I spoke to seemed able to understand my problem with this, although the school prided itself on it's Zero Tolerance policy.

One day I dropped my children off, wondered as I drove home if this was the day my son would be bashed and taken to hospital, and decided I would take them out, that day, to homeschool. This is a much abbreviated retelling of a problem with affected both sons at that school.

I felt for the children who had to remain at that school, however I had to take care of the safety of my children. Sadly, this is not an isolated incident at either that school or others.

A couple of years on, my sons are feeling happy and eager to learn in the real world outside of school. My youngest has regained his confidence and self esteem to the point he is feeling very good about himself.

To those who say that bullying is almost a requirement, to toughen one up or prepare one for the future... well, I do hope that any or all future jobs, companies and projects that my children are involved in as adults do not have co-workers that regularly go round breaking their belongings or punching them in the head as they pass, so why should that be acceptable to children?

Bullying is a huge problem, in my opinion, and one not easily solved. First thing to do is to get the heads of educational officials out of the sand and seeing the problem for what it truly is, for more people to speak up and speak out and let those officials know that what is occurring is not acceptable.

M

Bullying in schools is a symptom of a wider problem of violence
in society at large. We need to adopt a zero tolerance against violence
in all aspects of life. Dealing with this problem requires a whole community approach. If we all did our part in condemning violence of any form then we may make some headway.Home schooling is not the best option as it is only a temporary solution. When the whole school community is involved in stemming bullying then a more sustainable solution to the problem will be found. Many times I have found that the bully at school is bullied at home. There is no one solution to this problem. We need to take a wholistic approach and attack this problem as a whole. I support zero tolerance for violence in any form or kind.

Jeshua

There are so many ways to bully. My family have made formal allegations of bullying and are taking it to the highest of levels in the Department and we have done this for the sake of all the children. For that my children and family have been black marked and are targeted by the system.

One school even formerly accused my son of harassment. The acting Deputy Principal told parents at parent teacher interview to keep their sons away from my son as he was a trouble maker! However, my son had never done anything wrong. It was me who had made formal complaints and allegations against the Education System of neglect and misconduct including bullying on behalf of my children. When I challenged the allegations of bullying against my son as my son believed he was being victimized and targeted, I was told that the details of the incident didn’t matter that they had three teacher statements that said my son did it and also student statements. After I pursued the matter and insisted that my son had a right to defend the allegations they finally gave me the date of the “alleged incident”, it worked out that my son was at home sick on that day, he couldn’t have done it. They should have checked their roll before they plucked a date out of the air. It wasn’t the first time this had happened. It was a witch hunt. The school was trying to ruin my son’s reputation and it isn’t too difficult to do because although my son is a good polite and high achieving student – he is of Lebanese background. The message has been clear all along in schools. If you speak up – your children will suffer. It really is irrelevant whether the bullies are teachers or students – the process used is the same.

More parents have to complain and have to support fellow parents who do complain. People are scared to speak up against the bullies as they know that the system does not support victims or whistleblowers. That needs to change

I am a Home Education consultant for the Home Education Network and the story that Eco told of her child being bullied from the first day of high school is one that I would hear probably on an average of six times a week. It is a problem in all high schools rich or poor, private or independent and parents are fighting back. They refuse to sit back any longer and watch their child suffer. Home Education gives them the key to their childs’ life and happiness and they are accepting the challenge.
Lynne Kosky and the Bracks' government I hope you are listening. Bullying is a symptom of institutionalised schooling and always will be regardless of your well intentioned anti-bullying programs. Parents(your voters) are demanding change and a better life for their children. Home Education as an educational choice will continue to grow and may possibly be the education of the future. Don’t stand in its way

I have heard so many stories similar to your own Jolanda. It is frightening the abuses of power that go on in our school system. An earlier post stated that school was an unnatural institution, and that is so true. The high level of competitiveness on all levels, social and academic, creates an environment for bullies to flourish, whether they be children teachers or parents. Victims are rarely helped, and schools with a zero tolerance policy, sometimes have the worst bullying problems, as there is often a refusal to acknowledge issues. Sadly, as teachers, schools and administrators go back and forth with policies and programs, they forget the suffering of the victim, who is insignificant in their bureaucratic blinkered world.
I am glad home education exists as a viable option to many families that the system has failed. To those who feel that parents are unqualified for the role of teaching their children, many thousands of parents successful educate their children to university level, it is truly not that difficult in our information rich society.

There can be nothing more frustrating or frightening than not being able to gain the support of teachers when your child is at risk. I don't believe this happens everytime in every school but just once is one time too many.

What we need is to identify a procedure that can be followed by all parents who wish to report and resolve bullying behaviour. This should of course begin with individual teachers and schools but must provide avenues for complaint to an independent body that has some authority or influence. The OH&S ACt in each State requires employers (Dept of Ed, Private School and all school principals) to provide a safe environment for all who are involved with the workplace - inlcuding students. There are established procedures for reporting and resolving issues of bullying and penalties apply for a breach of the Act. Maybe we should be involving a Union - several are becoming serious about sorting out bullying in the workplace. It could be in everyones interest for a class action to be lodged by a group of parents of children who have been bullied. This would require a group of committed parents who have a very tight and well documented case getting together with a good lawyer. WorkCover in the appropriate State should be involved too. Does anyone know any funding bodies who could help?

Perhaps before getting this extreme though it would be wise to become involved in the school's P&C which has a great deal of influence. We could also try to gain the attention of media who might just be interested in highlighting the issues.

It is amazing what effect a lot of media attention and threat of penalties can do - especially if you can get local politicians involved too as I am sure there are votes to be won. It would be far more effective and widespread in the long term than homeschooling. The vast majority of parents to whom homeschooling is not a sensible alternative would be eternally grateful.

Boaz flippantly suggests that as home education grows, a home education network might take the place of the Ed Department. However there is a fundamental difference about home education which would prevent such an eventuality. The home education community is very diverse and covers families of different backgrounds, beliefs, politics and lifestyles. The very point of home educating is the ability to tailor the education to the real needs of one's children. There is no one-size-fits-all home education. There is no group which dictates the way families home educate. The education department wants to do bring us under their umbrella in order to dictate what we do. We want to retain the independance that allows us to find individual solutions rather than follow bureaucratic policies.

Bullying is not only a primary school problem. Our local high school has a lock out policy for the library at break times. Anyone who wants to be safe goes straight to the library.

The feedback on this article suggests that there are two effective ways to deal with bullying in schools. One is to out-bully the bullies by means of physical punishment/threat of the same or withdrawal of privaleges/threat of the same. Schools are prohibited from physically punishing children or threatening to do so. The withdrawal of privaleges only works as long as one has the power to take something away from a child that they want.

One has to ask whether out bullying someone actually teaches them that bullying is wrong or just teaches them that the more powerful figure is a more effective bully.

The other method is through acceptance of people's differences and encouraging their self-actualisation. This solves the problem from both directions by promoting understanding between children who have been bullied and those that have bullied.

Home education amply allows for this second option.

Sajo. I wrote to the P & C in Sydney, and they responded with “although we appreciate your concerns, it is beyond the scope of the P & C”. I also tried to get help from other organizations, some said that they did not get involved in individual cases! Others said it was outside their jurisdiction and/or that they did not have enough resources and I even had Whistleblowers Australia tell me not to bother going to a Solicitor as they would just take my money and that you can’t win no matter what evidence you have. A Minister told me that too. The media didn't want to know about it.

My family have sought legal advice in relation to our complaints and we have recently had a hearing at the ADT in relation to documents that the Department is withholding in respect of allegations of manipulation of test scores and misconduct in order to exclude my children from certain schools and in order to neglect them, discredit them and publicly humiliate them. My family have already spent over $25,000.00 just trying to be afforded Procedural fairness and protection and we have had to do it without any support as the community turned their back on my children and family for fear of also being targeted.

That is a very sick system. There are policies in place that protects those employed by the Public Service from having to answer to allegations of misconduct. I have had a number of Solicitors tell me that my family would have no trouble proving negligence but that the system would drag it on for so long that it would financially ruin us and any compensation that we may be entitled to for the suffering that has been caused will be eaten up by Solicitors costs and we could loose our home regardless.

I have told the system that they might get away with what they are doing, but they are not going to cover it up. I will not teach my children to accept being treated like pieces of dirt! Our children deserve better.

Susie Blackmore - erudite post.

Out-bullying the bully simply furthers violence and does not teach any alternative behaviour.

Of course negotiation is more difficult - to find a win-win solution is very tricky. However if a bully learns to compromise and negotiate rather than dominate the benefits are obvious, otherwise they just take their standover tactics into the workforce and the cycle continues.

I agree that home education can remedy this, but it is far from the whole solution.

I also agree that the Brack's government should support home schooling and continue to support school programs as well - not everyone can home-school. Public schools need to remain viable.

Scout - Everyone can homeschool. We all make choices in life that set us on different tracks. Large homes, private schools, new cars is a track that many take and the cost of this is two working parents to sustain it. Many parents also have highly successful careers that are incredibly important to them and this is their choice in life.
Homeschooling of course isn't for everyone and it never will be.It is one of many life choices like vegetarians and non-vegetarians. Both are great. That is the beauty of diversity. We all have the choice to persue the things that are meaniful and important to us! We can also choose to change any time we wish! Life continually evolves!

Jolanda

You seem to have tried quite hard to do the right thing. However writing a letter to the P&C is hardly an effective way of getting parental involvement and awareness of an issue. For this you have to actually go to the meetings - preferably get on the committee - move that the issue becomes an agenda item and that the P&C recommends that the issue is formally reported (I assume this is the case) and therefore has to be dealt with by the school OHS committee. You can insist that all minutes of OHS committee meetings are available. Failure to carry out these procedures can be reported to WorkCover in your State and you could also contact the ACTU (hotline 1300 362 223)who might be able to help. It is also a good idea to make friends among the parent community and get them to attend the meetings too. Oh - and I suggest you don't make it a race issue as you will find the barriers will go up very quickly. OHS is an issue that P&C can take up and ensure that procedures are followed. One word of advice - this will all work much better if it is presented reasonably and accurately without unnecessary anger and blame and with the confidence that you expect something to be done. I do however wonder if there is not a lot more to your problem than you are letting on if, as you say, there is no support among the parent community. Parents at my own children's school stick together when they want something changed. This is also why a class action is more likely to succeed and make headlines than individual lawsuits.

Lyn, please take no offense, but not all people make good parents and not all parents make effective teachers. Not everyone CAN homeschool.

I am all for home education - for those who can and for those who need it, but not at the expense of the majority who attend public schools.

I know for myself I would've gained from home schooling - had I parents who had the ability and concern to provide it; but I didn't. I also know that my sister is doing an exemplary job of raising her children - however she does not have extensive education herself, but is actively engaged with the local school.

We need both: home education and public schooling and neither should be promoted at the expense of the other.

Sajo, I am glad that your experiences have been positive at your school, however this is not the case for many parents. I think it is unfair of you to suggest Jolanda is not telling the ‘whole story’. If you had a wider experience of education, you would realise that Jolanda’s experience is not rare. In regards to this being nothing to do with race, well I am afraid that racism is alive and well and existing in our schools. Some of the comments I have heard in staff rooms have been some of the most appalling examples of racial vilification I have ever heard.
You obviously are at a school that works for you and your family, and I am pleased for you. However you should not be so quick to judge those many parents whose experience with the school system has not been so positive. Mass education can not and does not work for all people. We are lucky that home education does exist to provide an alternative for the many that the system fails. Home education works, the research is there to prove this, and there is no need for negativity towards parents who have made a different choice for the education of their children. As a society we need to respect and nourish diversity, and this is as true for education as it is for anything else

Scout, that’s the great thing about our society. Everyone CAN home educate. I have known many working single parents, lesser educated, even disabled people who have been successful in educating their children at home. Our society gives us the CHOICE and everyone can choose to make it or not according to their own circumstances. I firmly believe that the only times that institutional schooling is necessary is for higher education due to the societal demand for degrees, and in situations of family violence and severe mental illness. Many of these children end up in Foster care anyway.

It is a choice that we can all make. Many people seem to deny this right of choice out of fear that they may have to look at their own lives, see that maybe the outcome could have been better, had they made a different choice. Or worse still, perhaps they might have to sacrifice their own needs to do what is in the best interests of the child(ren). Do not try to tell us that you have not a choice and that others do not, because, this pattern of thought is fundamentally flawed. It is sad that so many well meaning people have been fooled into believing that the only choice is institutionalised schooling. To be continued…..

I do not condemn anyone who, due to their own personal lifestyle preferences, choose to educate their children in the system. But everyone needs to be aware that there is the option and they government is not being forthright in allowing the public their right to choose. In Tasmania, where recent law changes have been made regarding home education, it is illegal to print any pro-home education material, articles or radio/TV segments on home education unless they have been cleared with The Home Education Advisory Council (THEAC) before appearing. THEAC answers to the Minister for Education and has a policy of ‘no publicity for home education’ and therefore no such articles appear. How is this a way of ensuring that neither home education nor public schooling is promoted at the expense of the other? It is a scary example of the government unfairly exercising the right to censor to suit their own agenda.

The laws have been changed in every state to slowly put harsh restrictions on home education and prevent the freedom of speech and the right to choose. We cannot let this bullying by the labor government continue.

P.S. You have my support Nicola, on your very apt comments in regards to diversity as well as Gen in regards to the 'choice' to home educate being for everyone.

It all comes down to choice and how we feel we can best support our children, the argument especially recently in Vic is that that choice may very well be taken away from parents to choose the appropriate education for their children.

Anyone can Homeschool if they choose as a family to go down that path then we as a community need to support those choices. Government policy has no right to choose what is right for our children - thats our job as parents.

More and more government policies are taking away our rights as families and citizens of this country. Protection is one thing but control is another and the governments lastest effort to further control families through Home ed legislation put further pressure on Homeschooling families. Homeschooling has proven to provide educational outcomes of academic and social excellence.

I've got one thing to say to the government of this country and thats leave our families alone and allow us to continue to make choices inthe best interests of our children.....

What you say is so true Hope. The State Government’s proposed legislation will remove many parental rights. It is atrocious that this has come from a Labor Government. We have always been Labor supporters, but if this bill is pushed through in its current anti family form, we, and many others will definitely not be voting Labor at the State election latter this year.
The hypocrisy of releasing the Exposure Draft just before the Christmas holidays was appalling, and a sly trick on the people who elected them. The Bracks' Government should realise they are there to represent us not to rule us.

Home ed's seem to be as bad as GB. The fact is there has always been bullying and always will be. Bullying doesn't stop at school it is all through life and if you don't develop the skills to deal with it then you will always be subject to it. I watch a doco on home schooling and most of the kids on it couldn't wait to leave home to get away from their parents.
Most kids are homed schooled because of religious reasons and while some parents do a great job most don't.

Kenny
Yes there always wil be bullies but there will also always be drugs, so to educate my child should I place my child among drug addicts, no thats absurd. Its equally absurb to allow children to be systematically bullied. Hsers have very sucessfully taught their children the skills to overcome adversity so really that does'nt wash.

as for the docomentary, it sounds as if only a selected few were interviewed what about the many hundreds of success stories out there? There are many stories of successful university applicants; tafe applicants. In the US studies show that universities favour Hsed applicants.

Countless studies prove Home Ed works!. Some years ago I was against Homeschooling until I started researching the subject and was blowen away by the overall educational standard which was above mainstream school standards across the board. There are even studies that showed children who do not pursue academics or a curriculum were well and truely on par if not above their peers socially and academically, that totally surprised me!

There are many many dedicated parents out there who Home school not because of religious conviction but because its best for their children and their lifestyle. Some HS because of a school system that simply does'nt work. Whatever their reasons, it takes committment, dedication and courage to HS so I for one take my hat off to those dedicated Home schoolers!!
I encourage you all to take a stand against the governments proposed legislation, children are already protected under the existing legislation, this new legislation is only about control and taking away parents freedom to really choose what is best for their children.

I find it difficult to believe that someone could base their opinion of a subject from an information source so sparse as a mere documentary. Kenny I suggest you perhaps should educate yourself on this topic before making such sweeping and ignorant statements.
There is overwhelming evidence that home education works. Many famous and highly successful people were home educated. Home education has been around a lot longer than mass education, traditionally all children were educated in the home, this is not some new idea dreamt up by hippies or those who wish to live an alternative lifestyle.
Mass education has a much shorter history, it has only been around for the last two hundred years or so. It is no coincidence that the push for mass education occurred simultaneously with the industrial revolution. Fodder had to be found for the factories. People were given enough of an education to operate the new machinery. The only needs mass education served were those of the industrialists who owned the factories. It would seem that today many still see the role of schools as to merely provide fodder for the job market.

Kenny,

You are right - bullying doesn't stop at school. It does continue through life. Have you ever considered the idea that maybe school teaches bullying? Children herded together have little power or control over their own lives. Some exert the only power they have left against smaller or less forceful children i.e. They become bullies.

Home educated children, by contrast, have significant control over their own lives. They, along with their parents, make decisions about what they want to learn, where they want to learn, how they want to learn, what they want to wear, do, read,etc; who they want to spend time with and so on. Perhaps it is for this reason, together with the presence of caring, involved adults at home ed gatherings/activities/camps and so on, that bullying is never a problem there.

I don't know what documentary you saw but it sounds like it did not reflect the real situation. You say the children portrayed could not wait to leave home and get away from their parents. I know many home ed families and have found the home ed community to be unusual in that young adults do actually want to spend time with their families - they consider them friends.

Home educators are not all religious either. Some are, many are not. People come to home education for a whole variety of reasons. Some, like myself, are mainstream parents who would never have considered home education except that school just didn't work out well for their children. Ten years ago I would have considered home education 'radical', 'way-out', 'impractical', 'bad for socialisation', and it was something I would have considered myself incapable of doing anyway. Bullying forced me into home education but now I have discovered its many benefits. Now I believe it is just a better way to educate chidren.

Gen

Many thanks for your feedback. Much appreciated.

Who controls home schooling? Who writes the curricula? Who sets standards? Who marks papers? And many other similar questions. How do kids qualify from one grade to another?

I am very interested.

Happy New Year
Kay

Hi
I am a home educator and for our family home education is a way of life.My children have always been home educated.We spend a lot of time together as a family and have a strong bond whereby my children really get along well with each other.There is peace and harmony in the home.We are able to do family read alouds (classics,historical fiction biographies etc)together,listen to some lovely progammes on air and then discuss it together as a family.We make trips to different parts of Australia and I am able to combine pleasure with excursions whereby our kids help plan the trip,work out the distances and come back and write about their trips.Our kids are confident and they socialise very well with the school kids as well as other homeschooled kids.Our kids have all the time to explore their own interests and do not have to conform to some stereotypical behaviours that is found prevalent in the society today whereby the culture is one of conformity rather than seeking out and bringing out the individuality of a child. Or one that is inspired by consumerism?Our kids are allowed to be kids and are not hurried along to grow up.
Home education is not new - its been around for a very long time.There are different approaches to homeschooling. There are some very good curriculum that many parents I know of use.I personally use graded books for the core curriculum and do projects taking into account my kids interests.My children in that way feel their have some input into their education.Suppose they're learning fractions they don't stop because their grade 5 textbook stops and moves onto another topic but rather go onto grade6/7 textbook if the interest is there.
I work closely with them and I can give them word problem questions whenever I feel the need to hence,I know and they know how well they have grasped the topic.We also seek outside help if we need extra help in any area.Our kids respond well to other adult teachers in their extra curricular activities eg Music.TO BE CONTINUED....

I believe that my husband (who is a great support to me)and I brought these kids (we didn't seek the govt's permission to do so)into the world and have the best interests of our children we know our kids so well to make the decision as to what suits them the most.
Education Minister Brandon Nelson has admitted “ that literacy standards for 14 year olds have declined over a thirty year period.”
Also the fact that “Australian schools are infected with “New Age” curriculums that are leaving behind their international peers in Mathematics,Science and English.”(Age- 28/09/05)
All I can say is that in my homeschooling programme there has been consistency.
We teach our chidren to be tolerant of different points of view and choices and in the 21st century we as parents have a right to choose what education we want for our children as well as what social values that are important to us as a family.
What social and important life skill is Heidi Meldau referring to?? Is it where the teenage suicide rate is high? The culture is one of conformity rather than seeking out and bringing out the individuality of a child. Or on that is inspired by consumerism?

We teach our chidren to be tolerant of different points of view and choices and in the 21st century we as parents have a right to choose what education we want for our children as well as what values that are important to us as a family.

Jolanda is correct, IMO, when mentioning that "people are scared to speak up against the bullies, etc" - this goes far beyond the gates of schools into just about every little corner of society. I had thought the problems my son was experiencing were largely over but he went too long in not saying anything to anyone out of fear. Not Good Enough!

Sajo, I was involved in school P&C's at a committee level for many years. I have been as involved a parent as I could possibly be and I worked for the betterment of ALL children, not just my own. I had been unhappy about several aspects of what I now consider institutionalised education. I tried to make a difference and even though I am now home schooling, I continue to work at improving the lot in schools in a small way, for I know that not everyone would choose home based education nor think they were capable of doing so. Too many still don’t know that it’s a legal option in the first place, in all Australian states.

It was through the dreadful bullying problems my sons were experiencing that I began looking good and hard at other aspects of their schooling. Too much of it was unsatisfactory – a one-size-fit-all education doesn’t suit all, too much time wasted throughout the day on herding and controlling the masses... the spark of curiosity fading fast from the eyes of my children (that’s a biggie). Too many “unsatisfactory” reasons to detail here.

Today that spark is not only back, it’s bouncing, and I now wish I’d homeschooled all my children, all along.

It’s not my usual style to dish out damning comments, however IMO the educational system is very sick and it’s not enough to change schools or “make them better” - total transformation is what’s required. Some children seem to get through relatively unscathed and then wonder at the age of 45 what the heck it was all about, finally realising that it certainly didn’t prepare them for life out in the big world.

To be continued…

Sajo. What makes you think that I didn’t try what you said before I wrote to the head of the P & C? The system relies on people to just assume that we must have done something wrong or that we must somehow be at fault as otherwise the system would have done the right thing!

Until we do something about this attitude towards victims, nothing will change. We have done nothing wrong except make public complaints about the system and for that we are being targeted and victimized. I have presented everything with respect and as per policy and procedure require. It is all in writing and is all well documented.

I think that the only way to stop the Government from making changes that affect home-schoolers is, if all home-schoolers indicated their intention to apply for Distance Education on Psychological and medical grounds. You have to hit them in the pocket. If they get a couple of hundred applications for Distance Education from parents refusing to return their children to school unless the school can guarantee a safe and appropriate learning environment then maybe the system might think twice about what they are doing or deal with the issues that are causing families to have to homeschool.

My children have been successful in obtaining Distance Education on those grounds in NSW and it is quite a great system. When and if they return to school it will be supervised and if at any time there is a problem my children will return to be educated at home by the Education system. I will not leave them in an environment where they are not safe and where their needs are being neglected. The system needs to be forced to take responsibility.

In the NSW Education Act 1990 it says the Education of the child is primarily the responsibility of the Parents . It also states that it is the duty of the state that every child receives and education of the highest quality. We have a duty of care to protect our children. All our children.

Kalweb asks the questions:
“Who controls home schooling? Who writes the curricula? Who sets standards? Who marks papers? How do kids qualify from one grade to another?”

Hopefully others will reply as well. There is no one way to “do it” and each state has different regulations. Ask a hundred home schooling families and you’ll probably get 100 different replies.

In NSW the Board of Studies “controls” homeschooling. In my very brief interpretation here, there is no “set curriculum” but home educating families are to write their plans and programs based on the Key Learning Areas. Home educated children are eligible to sit for Basic Skills tests, ELLA, SNAP etc but not all partake of those, and some parents test their children using others methods/purchased tests etc. Part of the registration requirement is that you demonstrate how you will evaluate the progress of your child, along with what resources you have or have use of. Your program is viewed and registration can be approved for a period of 6-24 months at a time. Families are free to choose a very rigid school-at-home approach, purchase curriculum material from the huge amount of sources worldwide or facilitate the learning of their children in an informal manner. Ultra flexible, a grade five kid can be doing grade five maths and grade eight English, or spend six hours a day on music if that is their passion, and fit in everything else around it. Parents regularly find five hours of tuition in school can be knocked over in two or less at home. They also, not having a class of thirty to teach, can spend the time to really understand their child’s abilities and interests and tailor a program to suit that child. Brilliant.

There are also many unregistered families who take full responsibility for their children and prefer not to be “controlled”. However, the truth is, whether they are registered or aren’t, using formal methods or very informal, real-life learning, studies show that many of these homeschoolers blitz the tests when they take them, if that’s important for anyone to know

Hi Jolanda, I agree with your comments regarding victims. The system is riddled with the ‘blame the victim’ mentality, and it seems to be the reaction of many unthinking and uncaring individuals. It is easy to blame the victim, and teachers do it all the time, this is one of the reasons why bullying thrives in a school environment.
With regards to your comment for applying for distance education, it may have merit for some, however home educators generally prefer to set their own curriculum, this is why home education has such outstanding academic results. They are not bound by the outdated, unwieldy curriculum’s of the State school system.
One does not have to be a qualified teacher to be an effective teacher. Remember, entry in to a Bachelor of Education course is granted with a very low VCE score, and the course is very easy. For many teachers the only qualification they have is an education degree. There is nothing mysterious or difficult about teaching, and while there are some brilliant teachers, many teachers have frightening gaps in their knowledge.
Also home educators do not number in the hundreds, they number in the many thousands in this state alone. To put it in perspective, in the United States there are over one million registered home educators.
This feeling that parents are not qualified to teach their own children is a symptom of the general denigration of parents in our society today. Research has shown that home educating parents do an outstanding job..

Hi Kay,

It seems that I can't quite answer your question in the space provided - I just typed a quick response, checked the word count and I had passed 1200!

You are welcome to email me privately on my hotmail address educationathome@hotmail.com and I will send you the mini thesis I have prepared :)

In a nutshell though - the laws vary from state to state as for requirements and legislation. It is wise to find out about your individual state as the laws can be liberal or very strict. What state are you in?

You can purchase pre prepared curriculum or make up your own based upon a variety of sources. Grading is not an issue as you can also use resources to do this, but when you are teaching your children it is very quickly evident that they are progressing well. This is usually at a more rapid rate than their school counterparts due to the ability to tailor the programme to their needs and provide practical experiences to compound their understanding of the facts they are learning.

As to marking of papers; I think that crosses the boundaries between the parent and teacher role. It is also not an esteem building process to ‘tick and cross’ their work. You may have noticed that in Uni, you often don’t get ‘corrected’ work, but rather a little note surmising the opinion they have of what you have put together, and encouraging you in any ways you may have missed. I think this is also the best approach at home, but in a verbal sense. It encourages open dialogue about the work, and allows plenty of room for ‘re-directing’ the avenue the kids are taking if they have fallen a bit of the beaten track. Having said that it is important to allow sidetracks as well because that is often where the most valuable insight comes from. It’s a matter of balance and allowing latitude whilst being there to lead the way when needed

I hope this has helped.

Gen

Thank you, Nicola, for your understanding. Here is why I believe bullying has reached the stage that it has.

My children have been overtly systemically targeted and bullied by the system for many years. When fellow parents saw what was happening to my children they didn’t offer support or help they got together and picked a representative to come to my home to tell me not to mention them, their kids or the school in my formal complaints as they were scared it would have an adverse affect on their children and that their children would also be victimized and targeted. They turned their back on my children and left them to be destroyed. The lack of public support made my children easy targets for the system.

Children learn by example. There are adults that are setting terrible examples for our children in relation to how to respond and deal with these issues.

I couldn’t believe that fellow parents could turn their backs on innocent children so I spoke to one mother about it and I asked her if she saw her daughters best friend being victimized and treated unfairly, whether she would stand up on her behalf and I was told NO!. I was told that if it didn’t concern her child that she would not get involved.

It seems like people like to wait until a child is either dying or dead or does something that threatens their child before they feel any moral obligation to intervene.

If the silent majority do not stand up and support each other against the bullies then we will not be able to overcome the problem. We live in fear or retaliation.

You are right about many wanting to set their own curriculum when homeschooling. I am not one of those as I find it really difficult, probably because my children are very highly intellectually gifted and I have no higher education or support and I stress. I actually don’t enjoy the presenting of work part of home-schooling. I do however enjoy being with my children, they are great kids.

Jolanda - sorry to hear that you are meeting so many obstacles. This is why we need a better system for resolution involving an independent body. You probably have a good legal case but as you say this is far too expensive for most and takes too much time and energy. It is impossible to do this without community support. I can quite see why you have opted for homeschooling although in your shoes I would probably move to a different area where the community is less hostile. There are plenty of nice schools and communities around although if homeschooling appeals to you then that is fine.

My suggestions as to using the P&C and OHS committees were more as a general advice to those who believe the problem ends by taking their children out of school and teaching them to avoid bullies.

It is good to see that you have made such an effort to try to address the problem. Good luck. And thanks everyone else for a good forum - most of my posts have been a little antagonistic mainly because the forum was becoming very onesided and would soon have got very boring. This issue is important and must be publicised more. Hopefully we have raised awareness of both bullying and the options that are available. There are huge problems with bullying in the workplace too and I imagine a lot of this could be reduced if we address the problem better in schools.

Homeschooling will never be practical for most families and we must use a more preventative approach. My backgroud is in OH&S and I believe that we should be pushing this legislation with regards to bullying rather than relying on ineffective Departmental procedures.

I'm in the same position as Lyn (above) and receive many calls each week from families seeking refuge from seemingly unsolvable problems at school.
There is a growing number of parents choosing homeschooling because they have children with ADHD or conditions with similar symptoms. Some of these children have a hard time at school because of their bullying behaviour. They often find it difficult to control their emotions, especially when they are provoked. Others find being in group situations exceptionally stressful. Many of these children are sensitive to chemicals, such as perfumes in deodorants, carpet fumes, and other unavoidable environmental odours.
These kids handle stress - any kind of stress - badly. They react, often over-reacting, aggressively. They find it hard to back away, as they often feel wronged. Once upon a time they used to look to the adults around them for justice, but because they are the most obvious aggressor they usually don't find it. I've talked to many mums whose children have been suspended, 'branded' as trouble makers and have become the target for blame whenever anything goes wrong.
When a parent is willing to educate her child at home - thus alleviating many headaches for the school staff and parents of other children - to protect that child from the vicious cycle of bullying - she should be supported. Think of it as 'time out'. I've met dozens of children who fall into this category who after a few years of homeschooling have finally mastered controlling their emotions and who behave with maturity and consideration for others.
Homeschoolng can be a very successful option, not only for the victims of bullying, but also for the bullies.

Forgive me for going at an angle, but I have just been discussing this topic with my friend who home ed's in NZ, and she tells me they pay you to home educate. So, Mr Bracks, if you want to control us be prepared to foot the bill!

Kalweb - You ask about homeschooling - the control, the grades, the programs. You have had several repsonses that help you with the curriculum and grade questions but many thousands of parents opt for the natural learning method as well. Think of the first 5 years of your child's life and the absolutely amazing amount of learning that takes place usually with baby leading you following and encourgaing. Did you have a curriculum for all of this! Young children reach diffferent levels at different times, some walk early - some late, some talk early. some late but we accept that as life. This is natural learning and it need not stop when they reach 5. Some will read early, some late. Teaching reading to a child is no harder that teaching them anything else in fact if left alone most will teach themsleves anyway. Math is is the same - very quick and easy to pick up when the interest is there.I have two sons in Uni. now - homeschooled all their life without a curriculum or program in sight. Research backs up the overwhelming success of this method and it is such fun!

Yes you are right. I was homeschooling 3 children in NZ before we moved over here. After applying for an exemption from school (a learning curve in writing that in eduspeak) we were entitled to a copy of the cirruculum (great paper weight) and about $600 per year for the first child $500 for the second and $300 for the third and any more in the future. It was called a supervisory allowance but the inspector, who tried to come every year, liked to hear you spent your money on school supplies.
The inspector was an ex-teacher who liked to see that you ran your home like a school (which is impossible as anyone homeschooler or not would likely attest to). He also picked holes in your teaching regime. My fellow told me to do more science and basically said to be more like the schools. All this after the kids had done a marvelous job documenting the life phases of the monarch butterfly, and lots of cooking and other science and math. It will be a great shame to have to go back to that.
I now have 9.5 children who are all home educated. The eldest being 15 who is about to study to become a qualified ballet teacher and also sculpts dolls to an international standard which she sells on eBay. They all have above average computer skills(the second child built her own computer), including the 3yrold who can log on and find his programmes that are well beyond his years. They are all learning to read even though they get no hothousing at all. They all have a good grasp of mathematical principles and each have their own self taught skills which they share with others.
cont...

If you vote please write to Mr Bracks and tell him not to mess with the laws on home ed. I have heard rumours they are thinking of charging a 'registration fee'. UNFAIR! After all, how many thousands of dollars of our tax money goes into govt. coffers that we don't use by educating our children at home?? We are saving you money that goes into your schools. Spend it on fixing the schools instead of chasing a group who are already doing a good job producing upstanding productive citizens. Will the govt. give home educators tax breaks? Leave the status quo!!

Thank you for this article Susan.

It is very sad when the ability of parents to choose the best education and lifestyle options for their children is made difficult. Home education is a legitimate and proven avenue for families to choose. I cannot understand why the current Government wants to make this option a harder one. Let us hope more children will not be forced into enduring such atrocious conditions (such as bullying) when they have the option to be educated within the loving safety of their family.

Sajo, home education is an option for most parents, and you degrade your fellow parents by suggesting they are incapable of this. In this society, we need to be more appreciative of diversity not less.
Home education does work for many families, there is overwhelming evidence to prove this. The reason for it’s success is due to the ability of parents to tailor an educational program to suit their children’s individual needs. There are so many different approaches to home education, and this is why there is such a high success rate. It is clear the school system does not work for everyone. Human beings are so diverse it is impossible that such a standardised system would be successful for all. Just as people react differently to different foods, people will respond differently to different forms of education. For the State Government to seek to force all to conform to the one educational way, is just as ridiculous as forcing someone who is allergic to eggs to eat them.
We need more choices in the education of our children, not less.
For you to denigrate parents in this way by suggesting that many are not capable, is small minded and blinkered. Life is more than a set of rules and procedures that we must slavishly adhere to.
Have we become so over legislated as a society that we no longer trust our own abilities as human beings

Chris1 - Actually I said most were either unable or lack the patience or skills. By unable I mean that a large number of parents both work, are single parents, have aged parents to look after, have several children at different learning stages or with special needs that require professional help, a significant number of parents do not speak fluent English, a number of posters mentioned the high level of illiteracy among adults and others indicated the high level of patience that is required. I think this would discourage at least half of parents from homeschooling. At high school level it would be extremely difficult to educate a child in subjects that neither child nor parent has a particular interest or ability in. I am not denigrating other parents - those who choose to homeschool are obviously extremely dedicated and fortunate that they are able to do so. Anyone who says it is easy and anyone can do it obviously has a lot lower standards than I do. That is why we train teachers. I have nothing against homeschooling. As I said I have considered it myself and if bullying became an unsolveable issue I would no doubt be joining you all. I support the option of homeschooling for those who want to but those who can't shouldn't be made to feel guilty.

My concerns are for the children who are not in the position to opt out and are still being bullied while your children are not. I am sure there is a bible verse somewhere about looking after those who can't fend for themselves. It would be nice if we could all live in a loving rose coloured world but unfortunately we don't. I am quite surprised by the level of self interest in this forum.

Sajo - if you are correct and trained teachers are the best educators; how do you explain the school system australia wide where "trained teachers" educate our children and have huge problems with bullying and literacy.Both of these problems are getting worse not better, even the government can see this and spend a lot of taxpayers money advertising on t.v telling us what we already know -that schools with "trained teachers" have class sizes that are to big, literacy standards that are too low, and bullying problems.These "trained teachers are producing adults who can't read,write,add up,socialize. What are these teachers being trained in? Yes many come out of school being able to do these things,but if "trained teachers "are the best, why are the failure rates so high in schools. Why are any failing ? What is our government doing, they have a system that by their own admission is not working, yet the only solution they offer is to change the laws for home educators( a system that has proven to work) where is their solution for the school sytem and those in it. They don't offer one.The government has failed those parents whose children are in the school system, we need to challenge them to bring their standards up to an acceptable level,their standards appear very low, regardless of "trained teachers" . This debate is not about guilt, it is about making the government accountable for their failures, and making them accountable for repairing them. Which ever system you choose( and last time i looked Australia was still a democracy and choice is our right) you should know it is the best it possible can be.Make the government accountable, don't give them excuses to allow their mistakes to continue and to affect another bunch of 5 year olds who have only a few weeks before they become entangled in the mess (we adults have allowed to happen) that is the school system in australia.

Sajo,

I agree that bullying in schools is a major issue that needs to be tackled there in some efficient and official way but it is the discovery of that effective method that is the problem. No one seems to know how to effectively stamp out bullying in schools. Even the experts talk about reducing it and limiting it but don't seem to think it can be stamped out completely.

For many of us on this forum, home education has been the answer and brought other unexpected benefits. However, what you say is true - not all parents are ready, willing and able to take their children out of school and take on their education themselves.

What Chris1 was trying to say, I believe, is simply that more parents are capable of home eduacating than you might think (or even that more parents are more capable of educating than they think they are). Even at the upper levels there is a wealth of educational material these days. Books are readily available, there are documentaries, the internet and community resources. The parent does not have to know everything or indeed anything about a subject to help their child learn it. Some parents enlist the help of friends or paid tutors. If a parent teaches children research skills then the children become capable of learning anything. Parents can be more like facilitators or coaches in a home education setting.

I too would like to be able to prevent other children from going through any kind of bullying but all I have been able to do is remove my own and therefore protect them.

Articles like this serve to promote an awareness of the depth of the bullying problem in schools. That awareness may change people's attitudes to bullying.

In the meantime, I recommend home education and defend parents' right to choose it for their children but do recognise the fact that not every parent is going to home educate their children and something needs to be done for those in the school system.

I am a home schooler from NZ and have found the NZ Govt. supportive of home schooling .We received $745.for the first child and $635 for the second and $300 from there on. You know as well as I do that money is not the issue for we didn’t do it for the money-( because it does not cover fully the kids extra curricular activities . Also once we threw in field trips and the purchasing of our resources. There were no rulings as to how the money was used. Once I got my exemption I didn’t feel intimidated by the Govt. and was left to do my own thing. My friends use different styles-purchased curriculum,ACE programme,Unschooling and I have used graded texts for core subjects and Unit Study method for others bec.that suits us the most. For us the system was good we worked in harmony.Perhaps it varies from area to area but there are many home schoolers in the area I lived, we all met once a week and no one had any complains in fact we got on with whatever we had to do and not worry about Govt.intervention
Now that I am here I keep in touch with my friends who have stated that an officer from The ERO (Education Review Office) would visit and have a general discussion and my friends who are home schoolers have had glowing reports and they really have a great rapport with them. They are really encouraged and often the general comment is that “you are doing the right thing by teaching the kids at home”. Also when I got my exemption from the Ministry-it was for an indefinite period. We could borrow resources from institutions that would lend to other teachers from school.
Imagine if we have to write for an exemption yearly. I can think of a 101 ways to use my time. I prepare my curriculum and that is time consuming as it is but we can see the end result of hard work but why should we spend time because of bureaucracy gone mad.

Why is it that people jump up and down about the qualifications of teachers. The only qualification most teachers have is an education degree. Entry to a Bachelor of Education course is granted with an extremely low VCE score, and the course is very easy. I am not saying all teachers are ignorant, there are a few who are brilliant, but they are in the minority, and constricted by the system they teach in.
Why is it that parents are so belittled in our society today? Why is there this attitude that parents are not qualified enough to teach their own children, when the ‘professionals’ we pay to do the job are often undereducated and failing at an alarming rate.
With regards to parents unable to teach their children at high school level, that is incorrect. The information available to people via internet, books and libraries is overwhelming. Look at the research. Many thousands of parents home educate their children up to university level all the time. To think that school is the only place one can obtain an education is sheer ignorance

Sajo. What makes you think we haven’t already done that? We have already sold our “family home” and moved. The issues followed us! We didn’t have enough money to move away far enough to be safe from the bullies in power in the NSW Education System.

My family’s complaints result from an attitude problem from the bureaucrats at the TOP and that has filtered down into the schools and it resulted in my family being systemically victimized, bullied, blackmarked and branded trouble makers. All because I made some public complaints about the system that embarrassed them, so they have systemically set out to discredit and destroy my family. Thing is that I had justifiable good reasons to make the complaints that I did. This type of victimization and bullying filters down to the teachers and into the community – the whole system is affected as people turn a blind eye to unfair treatment for fear of repercussions. People are scared to speak up for fear of becoming targets. They have good reason to be scared because the message has been loud and clear – if you speak out – You will suffer.

The problem with bullying will never be addressed whilst the victim is the one that is expected to either accept and/or move away from the problem. We need to deal with the bullies from the TOP down and set a good example and precedent. The system is set up to protect those in power, hence the no blame approach to bullying behaviour. We need to deal with bullies in power first - but in order to do that we need people power and people are scared. It has always been this way and for things to change parents need to respect each other, support each other and give each other the benefit of the doubt with regard to what is in the best interest of their own children. People always seem to side with the bully and more often than not it is fear based. We live in fear.

I feel for parents with children with ADHD. The school environment is the worst place for them as the environment is totally not suitable to their needs and personality. My children tell me stories about what some teachers do to these children and how many are victimized. It’s awful. They say that it doesn’t matter what these children do they are blamed for everything. The poor kids really do feel like they are being treated unfairly and many times they are. One day my 7 year old came home upset because the ADHD boy in his class that caused constant havoc picked up a chair and threw it across the room. What bothered my son is that the teacher said nothing. It was like “Oh well he has ADHD it is expected”…..Then my son said that later on the boy put his jumper over his head and the teacher went ballistic. My son said that the way this boy was being disciplined was very confusing and the poor boy was constantly stressed as was the whole class and the teacher. My son was in constant fear, in the classroom and out because he couldn’t trust the teacher to deal with the issues properly.

One more thing that my children tell me and that is that a lot of children cheat….They copy each other’s work and it is totally accepted by the teachers. That is how so many kids get through, but then suddenly find in high school that they are illiterate. My children say that regardless whether it is a test or not, more often that not teachers turn a blind eye.

Teachers cannot cope with what is expected of them and really it is not their fault. Their training is inadequate, their support is inadequate, their conditions are often difficult and inadequate and they are being controlled and stifled by the same bullies that create and support the bullying school environment for the children.

We desperately need change because not every parent is in a position to home school and not every child wants to be home schooled.

ALLOW STUDENTS TO REPORT EVENTS

It is important the the bullied child have an avenue to report incidents without feeling being the "outsider". Children will want to appear to be "in" with the parents. Thus, it is up to adults to make dob in a bully easier.

MANY TEACHERS ARE BULLIES TOO

Relatedly, if schools, even teachers personally, are not recognising their duty of care, compensation via the courts and removal of teachers should also be employed. Extreme. No:

I can recall a teacher when a student years' ago who would have students sit on footballs and then kick the ball from underneath the child. Another teacher by the name of Lyons who physcally threw a thirteen year old over three desks because the kid called him Mr Tigers. In the days of corporal punishment, a teacher who have boys come to his office three or four times before actually canning them, a day or two later. I could go on with dozens of examples.

None of the above was experienced by me personally, but I saw these events. Although, in fourth class (Primary), I was whipped with a key chain by a teacher for being "stupid", when I suggested that the electron beam from a cathode ray tube might form the basis for a rocket populsion engine.

So, it is the teachers as well as the parents, who should be in the cross hairs. Perhaps, a some bullied students should look towards at owning teachers' houses, via the courts

I found this excellent UK website that gives very good advice for parents and children on how to deal with bullying in schools:

http://www.bullying.co.uk/index.html

Nicola -
'Why is it that parents are so belittled in our society today?' - are they? Maybe you have just a bit of a chip on your shoulder.

'The only qualification most teachers have is an education degree' - sounds quite appropriate to me although I would like to see more teachers who are parents themselves - they generally are more understanding and better equipped to deal with difficult children.

'Many thousands of parents home educate their children up to university level all the time' - and hundreds of thousands don't.

'The information available to people via internet, books and libraries is overwhelming' - there is an awful lot more to education than absorbing information.

'The‘professionals’ we pay to do the job are often undereducated and failing at an alarming rate' - actually the teachers do pretty well, it is the parents who are failing to teach good self-discipline and class sizes are way too big. Maybe we should have compulsory training for all parents before their children can start school. Parents should also be provided with a copy of the schools anti-bullying policy to read and sign.

There really is no need to denigrate the school system in such a negative manner. Before we had schools only the wealthy could afford an education - the rest were mainly illiterate and poor, working on farms, in mines and factories from a young age in terrible conditions, could not vote and bullying was a way of life. We have come a long way by providing free access to education for all - there is room for improvement but in the main the education system is quite good.

To Eco, Gen, and Lyn

Many thanks for your feedback. Very helpful.

Kay

The curriculum in Victoria is currently set by each family based upon their choices for education of the children. There are options to purchase pre prepared curriculum which can be followed from pre school to the end of VCE, however the majority of families that I know opt to use a variety of resources. The home environment is fundamentally different from the school environment, so parents often find that the best option is to relax the ‘school’ attitude and follow the children’s interests.

My autistic daughter is fascinated with Geology and we use that as a catalyst to encourage learning in the other areas she is not so fond of. For example, we do our maths based upon rocks – working out what percentage of limestone is in a given sample of rock, work out what the probability is of gold in a particular area based upon the rocks found and the data collected. Another example is in our Italian, we learn first the names of the geological forms in Italian, then, of course, you need basic Italian language skills to illiterate them properly, etc. By using her interests, she has excelled in all the areas of learning. We make sure that a little geology is in every topic eg. volcanoes and dinosaurs, or how ancient Egyptians used stone to build the pyramids. She learns all about the other topics effortlessly whilst following her favourite subject too! This gives her the invaluable skill of making any education relevant in a real way to her. Schools cannot possibly give this level of tailoring to their programme.

It is also amazing to see just how much can be learnt by involving children in daily life. It’s all about providing the opportunities for the children to learn in your environment and allowing them to actively take part in the world is an invaluable way to do so. This way they don’t feel disjointed from it and see the valuable input they are having. Instead of doing ‘money exercises’ on paper at school they help with food shopping. To be continued...

They start with the budget for food; help with the shopping list to fit the budget and nutritional needs; then shop, helping make the decisions on what best fits the price range allowed and considering the discounts, then subsequently pay for it. They may even have enough money left to purchase treats if they are extra careful with their planning. This kind of activity is a real life example of what would take a lot more effort in a school to 'teach' because on paper it is not so relevant, nor interesting. Shopping is simple, fluid and relevant. It teaches an abundance of different skills from reading, writing, nutrition, reasoning, problem solving, basic maths; money handling; adding; subtracting; multiplying; dividing; percentages (discounts); and the list keeps on going on. How many hours would you expect to spend at school covering all these topics? That was just one example of one weekly ‘learning’ exercise at home and it covered almost all the core areas of ‘curriculum’ without being contrived... It helps to foster a true love for learning as there is an understanding that education teaches useful life skills.

Home ed is a real option for parents, it is not the only valid one, but its favour in society is rising as the schools are falling in popularity, even though in many groups home ed is still ‘taboo’. Many parents who turned to home ed out of desperation, used to be of the opinion that you just HAVE to go to school, but now have realised just how sensible an approach it is.

Just because many home educators have firm beliefs in what they are doing, does not mean they are denigrating the school system or the teachers. It is quite simply that we are now facing a fight for the very survival of home education as we know it. It has been so ‘hushed up’ in society, and by the government, that we have to make our voices heard. It needs to be recognised as a viable option that any family can make if it suits them.

Something interesting I came across on the web. A survey done about disciplinary problems in our schools. 45 years ago, the problems they had with students were talking, chewing gum, not waiting in line, making noise, running in the halls and not wearing proper clothing.! 10 years ago, the problems were rape, robbery, assault, burglary, arson, bombings, murder, suicide, vandalism, drug abuse, pregnancy, gang warfare, drug pushing, alcohol abuse, VD and abortions!! Do I need any other reasons to home educate my children!

And heres another to think about. This little paragraph I also found on the net........"While many people think of home education as a relatively new concept, in truth, it has been the predominant form of education during 6,000 years of recorded history. Famous home schoolers include Benjamin Franklin, Daniel Webster, Winston Churchill, Alexander Graham Bell, Albert Einstein, Thomas Edison, Pearl Buck, Agatha Christie, C. S. Lewis, Franklin D. Roosevelt... to name only a few!"

Sajo,

I don’t think Nicola has a chip on her shoulder, but a valid opinion. Often parents are considered less ‘learned’ than the teachers; I have seen many cases where the teachers simply ‘humour’ the parents concerns or ignore them. Consider the family of the girl who was repeatedly sexually abused and I quote:

“A child I know well was severely and repeatedly sexually assaulted by students at her primary school… Her Mother, noticing changes in her behaviour, even repeatedly enquired with the teachers as to whether there might be an issue, but they just blamed it on her temperament and ignored it. The young girl eventually told her mother; medical and psychological investigation confirmed the assaults…the boys involved are in the public system without any precautions taken to prevent recurrence, as this would impinge on the boys’ liberty.”

My greatest concern was that the teachers blamed the issue on the child’s temperament and effectively belittled the Mothers concerns. If you read through the comments on this discussion board, you will find many such comments and gravely concerning examples of teachers thinking they know the children ‘better’. This is not to say that all do this, but there are many, and they are very clannish to protect one another. A very scary combination.

Education degrees? When I was at primary and secondary school I used to be able to ‘correct’ the teachers spelling, grammar and even factual mistakes. One of my ‘highly educated’ teachers had such bad English skills that she needed an editor for all her classwork. I am not talking about 20 or 30 years ago, I finished school less than 10 years ago. I have also seen a similar trend at my daughters school (from my first marriage) where teachers often show incorrect English, manners and even at times teach unsubstantiated facts. They are obviously very well ‘educated’. At each home-ed network group, I see a set of parents, just as well educated, if not better.

I agree with you that there should be more teachers with their own children, hence an insight into a parents mind

and how it feels to be treated as an ‘amateur’, but of course, that would be discriminatory.

Yes, hundreds of thousands educate in the system, many because they don’t know there is an option. There are tens of thousands of home educating families Australia wide, so we’re not that much of a minority. In Queensland, conservative estimates are above 8,000, Victoria and NSW have similar figures, not to mention the other states and the families too shy to come forward and be counted for fear of government persecution.

Of course there is more to education than just absorbing information. Nicola was just trying to say that we have everything we need to effectively educate available to us nowadays. Home educators use relevant information and techniques to help educate their children. They expose them to a world where education is a lifestyle, not a ‘have to’. I would like you to show me just one positive thing a child can learn at school that cannot also be learnt at home.

You can’t just blame the parents for the bullies, much as sometimes they are the source of the issue, it’s school that allows free reign on the pursuit. Perhaps all parents should go through a course before enlisting their children in school entitled ‘A guide to the institutionalisation of your child’ with a preface; this is for your information so that you can suitably enforce rules and guidelines upon your child that have been determined by the state. Please ensure that at all times you ignore the right of your child to be individual and ensure that he/she is brought into line with our framework so he/she can live a middle class mediocre lifestyle as a well behaved adult office clerk. Oh, and make sure to remind them to check their civil rights and freedom of speech at the door.’

Sometimes evolution forces you to let go and realise that perhaps we’re beginning to outgrow the need for something that once was valuable - schools. Now is the time to embrace the family unit – it has been disjointed too long

Sajo and Sam A.,

Teachers have been a pretty mixed bag for decades. In the sixties and seventies, they were often the bullies themselves, as I mentioned above. Twenty odd years ago, grammmer and dictation were removed from the English curriculum. I suspect that few teachers under forty years could rapidly "parse" a sentence. Moreover, the TERs for entry into education degrees are often fairly low for a profession.

I believe the Late Carl Sagan was also quite negative about his school teachers.

A messed-up system with its fair share of messed-up teachers.

Sajo,

A few facts from the full version of Susan Wight’s article http://www.home-ed.vic.edu.au/Otherways/Bullying.htm in response to your posts:
1. Dr Rigby’s research revealed that 50% of Australian school children have experienced bullying and that one in six is bullied each week.
2. The Kidscape survey found that whilst physical bullying between girls up until twenty years ago generally ended at hair pulling, it has now risen to include being stabbed, kicked in the head, having stones thrown, broken bones, being deliberately knocked down by cyclists, and other injuries requiring hospitalisation.
3. One study showed that some schools had four or five times as much bullying as others. The worst schools were found to be those who claimed that there was no bullying in their schools.
4. Neil and Marr, in their book, Bullycide found that “The most common responses of schools to allegations of bullying are either to deny it or to take ineffective action which makes the bullying worse.”
5. School bullying policies often fail to solve the problem. The great majority of bullying is not reported to teachers or noticed by them. A Canadian study videotaped children in a schoolyard. The teachers were aware of only 17% of the bullying observed by the researchers. Of the incidents they did see, they only chose to intervene 23% of the time giving an overall intervention rate of 3.9%.
6. Parents are not always listened to when they make a plea for help: “All to often complaints of bullying put forward by pupils and parents are dismissed; assertions of looking out, investigation and action are rarely supported by evidence.”

The evidence clearly refutes your beliefs that school bullying is infrequent, minor, usually dealt with well and happens at a much lower level than in years gone by.

More facts tomorrow on the ability of 'unqualified'parents to adequately educate their childen

I think you can find an insight into why teachers look the other way when students cheat on tests etc., in John Holt’s writing. Teachers are under pressure too, as are principals and schools, they need to look like they are getting the results, and if this makes it necessary to dumb down the tests, or look the other way when students cheat, then so be it.
And as for bullying, we are hardly likely to see bullying disappear from our schools, while our governments use bullying tactics on the population.

Hmmm . . . Lots of interesting ideas and discussion! There are a few issues I can't resist commenting on. The first is the issue of whether teacher training is necessary in order to be able to teach one's own children.

1. As a trained and qualified teacher who has taught at infant, primary, secondary and tertiary levels I can say with some certainty that the main advantage offered by my training and background was that it gave me confidence in facing the questions which arose during the years I was educating my children at home. I knew from experience that what my children were experiencing out of school was superior in every way to what their peers were getting in school.

2. A teaching degree helps to give one strategies for teaching many children at once, and addresses the multiple issues involved. For a parent with one's own children these issues are irrelevant.

3. Anyone can teach anything to anyone else on a one-to-one basis. You don't need a teaching qualification to do this. All it needs is for the student to want to know, and for the teacher to be willing to help guide the student toward knowledge. The teacher - or parent - by reason of superior wisdom and understanding, is the guide and facilitator who can lead the child even if the parent has no knowledge of the subject matter. They can seek answers together via literature, the web, or asking someone who does know.

Gen – I often spend time with my children doing exactly the sort of exercises you mention. I think they learn far more at home than they do at school. Their teachers have commented on their general knowledge and the fact they could read before Kindergarten. So in effect I have been homeschooling. However, I doubt I have the patience to do it all day every day for another thirteen years. I worry what effect this would have and how they would cope returning to the school system. I won’t pretend to be able to teach calculus or chaos theory. This is a job for someone who really knows their subject. I also wonder how you plan and implement a curriculum for three children at different learning stages. It is a difficult decision.

SamA and Susie Blackmore– I am quite convinced that homeschooling can be at least as good as conventional schooling. I never said otherwise just pointed out that schools, teachers and schoolchildren are not the bed of evil that some posters portrayed.

Bullying can be reduced in schools if parents and teachers are committed. There are lots of success stories. Homeschooling separates the victim from the bully and if it is your own child then yes it works. However, it isn’t an option for most children and it can only make things worse for the next poor soul.

I sincerely hope that governments do not interfere with the right to homeschool or take time out for educational or family activities.

All the teachers I have ever known have been well educated – some were truly inspirational and others hopeless but none have had problems with basic English. I’m not sure where all these awful teachers and schools are but I am glad I don’t live there

I have been home-educating now for nearly two (school) years, but as it is said you are teaching from the day of your childs birth, so then I have been home-educating for the past 8 years. The current schooling system is not the only option ( thankfully ) for our children, as it can't cater for all the different types of children and their learning styles. In this society if you are a bit different than the "normal" then you are a target for bullying, whether you are an adult or child.
I have found one of the many benefits of home-education is that my children can grow confident about who they are without having to be put into a certain "box". They still enjoy other childrens company on a very regular basis, but they are not scared to stand up for themselves if something happens. In principal I don't mind the idea of registration for homeschooling, but the thought of not being able to teach my children at their own interest levels and being told exactly what to do,when to do it ( in terms of having to do this in year 2 and that in year 3) and the threat of not being able to continue to educate my children for life by living and educating the way we currently do is worrying. These lovely children have been given to us, not the government and are therefore our own responsibilty. We have chosen this option for our whole family and are enjoying seeing our children flourish and grow within our family and our wider community.

Why is it that when a real viable alternative to mass schooling is proposed to aleviate some of societies problems, the govenment don't even show the slightest interest? Except to try and quash it. I'm sure if they had a working party to come up with the idea of home tutoring they would consider themselves very clever.

What is even more astounding is that they make themselves deliberatly elusive. We vote for these people, if they are not listening to what is being said, then it is time to go to the people who are prepared to listen. Before more of our children are permanently damaged by inappropriate education methods.

Regarding parents’ ability to home educate; their ability to get their students to a high academic level; and on home ed kids reentering formal schooling:

1. Dr Rudner’s research covered 20,760 home educated students in America and found that in every subject at every grade level, they scored significantly higher than their public and private school counterparts.
2. Test scores of children whose parents had ever held a teaching degree were only three percentile points higher than those whose parents had not.
3. Children who were taught at home by mothers who had never finished high school, still scored well above public and private school students.
4. Lyman’s research concluded that “home schooling has produced literate students with minimal government interference at a fraction of the cost of any government program.”
5. A UCLA project showed that the average school student receives 7 minutes of personal attention a day but that home learners receive between 100 and 300 minutes of attention per day.
6. Home educated students gain entrance to many of our universities and an American study showed that 74% of home educated adults aged 18 -24 had taken college-level courses compared with 46% of the general population.
7. Jeff Richardson from Monash University spent seven years researching home education and ‘showed overwhelmingly’ that home ed students re-entering the school system or going on to university ‘perform extremely well, above average, when they reenter formal education.’ This was apparent regardless of the degree of formality of home instruction or the type of curriculum adhered to.

Sajo, you say “Bullying can be reduced in schools if parents and teachers are committed.” Evelyn Field, Australian expert and author of Bully Busting writes, “under optimal conditions bullying can be reduced by up to fifty percent” but that “it cannot be eradicated.

1. I agree that homeschooling is a vital and valid part of educating our children.
2. I believe that governments would do well to fund and support home schooling.
3. I believe with parental, teacher and student making a combined effort that bullying in schools can be reduced.
4. I believe that public schooling is a vital and valid part of educating our children & that government support is equally vital.

I do not understand why Sajo's posts are being attacked. S/he has not at any time argued against home schooling, simply that it is not always an option for all parents and that funding for home schooling should not be at the expense of public schooling.

I and Sajo do not disagree with home schooling - just that public schooling requires support as well. Public schooling has been neglected in recent years and in recent years we have seen an escalation in crime and bullying.

In recent years - private schools have received increases in government funding and support. This has been at the expense of public schooling.

Home schooling is a part of the answer to bullying but not the complete answer. If only life was that simple

I have been reading articles here for the last couple of months and never before have I been so influenced by a discussion that I have wanted to post too. Whilst I was not particularly swayed by the article itself, the comments after it have been inspiring
Before now I had no idea that homeschooling existed in Australia. This discussion has led me to find out more, and the more I discover the more I am convinced . To Gen, Nicola, Eco and Lyn, your comments have inspired me the most. You point out exactly what is wrong with the system, and you show a better way of learning and a better way of life. I thank you for opening up a door for me to a world I didn’t know existed

The mainstream education system has undeniable and obvious shortcomings. Homeschooling is an effective alternative to that system.

Lillian's posts give the statistics. Many others have their own stories to tell.

The current legisltaive environment in Victoria is adequate to ensure that neglect doesn't occur and education does.

The government and many people have not understood or recognised that homeschooling is an ALTERNATIVE. It is different to the mainstream system.

Not all people can exist at all times within the regular mass-produced aims, goals and methodologies of the mainstream education system. In reality people have experiences, beliefs and goals that cannot be reconcilled with what the education act and it's policies and theories dish up to them in reality.

Either we can be fearless and honest and face up to this or we can try to squeeze everyone in under the same carpet by trying to nip and tuck and stretch and add on to it and by trying to push and squeeze the people.

Let's be brave and face the reality. People are alive and full of genius, let's not try to squeeze them all into tight pants please.

Home education is the answer to many of the unnatural restraints placed on children in the artificial environment of the school, not just bullying. The UN supports the rights of parents to educate their children the way that they see fit, as does the Australian Constitution. Educating children at home allows the people that understand them best, love them most and have their real well-being at heart are the ones with the most influence on them. "The hand that rocks the cradle, rules the world..."

Susie. I agree with you that a motivated parent would provide a better learning environment. Problem is, not all parents are motivated to home school and not all parents have confidence in their abilities and are well educated. It is also a fact that not all kids want to spend all day with their parents. It really does depend on personalities and circumstances.

There is no doubt however that the amount of time schools spends herding, leaves little time for learning and that the problem with bullying is doing a lot of psychological damage. These are issues that can be minimized and even fixed. I dont believe that you can only elimiate 50% of bullying.

Of my 4 children, two of them would love to be home schooled for the duration of their school life because of their disapointment with school but I just can’t do it for that long. To me it isn’t easy, I cant deal with the questions, I struggle to explain things, I don’t understand things. I get stressed and my children notice and then they feel bad and then they avoid asking me questions. I also need to get back to full time work.

We have taken our kids out of school and homeschooled them for short periods in order to protect them and we will never leave them in a school where they don’t feel safe but we keep trying and searching for a school like the one sajo talks about because I know that my children would just thrive in the right school environment as they love being students, they just need to find the right school and I know that they can exist. There is so much potential in teachers and students in the Public School system that just needs to be supported, guided and nurtured.

I personally think that both the school community and the home school community need to respect, support and help each other with whatever education they choose as best for their children. That would be the ultimate

Thanks, Jolanda! I really enjoyed reading your thoughtful, inclusive and well-balanced approach to the public school - home ed debate. I began to wonder whether I had sounded rather high-handed when I offered the viewpoint in an earlier post of a trained teacher who had home educated her children!

Your point about confidence illustrates much more clearly what I was trying to say. The major sticking point with so many parents is that they believe teachers can offer something that they themselves can't, and that schools - despite some obvious drawbacks such as the bullying problem - have some magic formula which will turn out an educated individual at the other end.

If you have seen as much of the workings of the public education system as I have, you know that this is simply not true. So a trained teacher can proceed with the utmost confidence to do things at home which are completely different from school, becuase they know the ways in which school does not work.

Please don't misunderstand me. I don't mean to vilify public schooling, and I also have the greatest respect for parents who do not feel they can or want to school at home. But I do want to encourage those who are only prevented by their own lack of confidence. All other problems, such as lack of subject knowledge, can be overcome.

One of the concerns that people have when they find out that I have homeschooled my children during different periods and have 2 on Distance Education learning from home at the moment is how will the children cope when they return to school.

This comment always makes me laugh. I mean, we put our children into pre-school after being at home all their life, many from an extremely young age and these kids cope and adjust. The same people even say it’s good for them, so why do some parents seem to think that an older child will be incapable of adapting and coping when starting a new school after being at home? Children are not given the credit that they deserve.

I tell those that ask that it is no different for a child than attending a different park and it all depends on how you present it to them. Of course there are those that have social issues that will struggle, but for most kids it isn't a problem and it is actually beneficial to teach children to be able to adapt and change because change is often like a holiday and when there is change there is hope that things will be better.

My kids have changed schools at least 5 times each at their request searching for the right learning environment. They are confident and self assertive and they know what they want and what they need and they are not afraid to stand up for their rights even if it does come with repercussions because they know that although they may not be protected by the adults in the system, they will be protected and supported by their parents.

The thing that I find homeschooling has going for it is that if the homeschooling parent is capable and motivated, education is able to be better catered to suit the child’s individual learning needs and style. Schools need to work on that.

You both make very good points jolanda and titaniak. However I must point out jolanda that distance education and home education are different. With home education parents decide the curriculum, with distance education this is set by the department. While both forms of education take place in the home, the approaches and philosophy behind them are different. However it is good both exist, as choice in education is important.
I am a teacher and I am a parent too. I agree titaniak, parents do need to realise that they are more than capable of educating their children. Parents today are doing a good job. They deserve better than the negative, hostile and officious attitudes that are often displayed towards them. Parents in this era face more criticism and pressure than any other previous generation.
Teachers often overstep their authority when it comes to dealing with parents, Many need to realise they do not have jurisdiction over parents. Children are entrusted to teachers to educate, and their authority stops there.
Children are at school for more that six hours every day, five days a week, I think it is time that the school system started to shoulder some of the blame for their behaviour.
What others have said in this forum is true, parent rights are being eroded in society today, the Victorian State Government’s draft of the proposed Education Act is evidence of that.

Jolanda

I was beginning to think I am the only parent who doesn’t want to homeschool. I believe my relationship with my children is better if we all have a break from each other. I have a lot more enthusiasm for ‘homeschooling’ for a couple of hours after school or at weekends and holidays when we can do the fun things and go exploring or on excursions.

Obviously the choice of school is important. I can recommend primary schools in Sydney if that is any help. Some of the things that most influence the culture of my children’s school are:
1. large number of children from middle class migrant backgrounds – mainly Chinese/Korean/Indian in our case but lots of others. These people place a high priority on education and discipline and the children behave accordingly. My children have no idea what racism is.
2. Committed and enthusiastic Principal
3. Parental involvement. You can be sure that someone is keeping a close eye on things and parents tend to know each other and children socialise outside school.
4. Proximity to popular selective high schools – attracts those who value education and are great high schools if you have smart kids.
6. Area with a low crime rate and high level of employment.

Indicators of a good school include:
1. The school is full and doesn’t take children out of the area – it may be overcrowded but at least you know it is popular.
2. Teachers have their own children at the school.
3. Principal is approachable.

No school is immune to bullying so if you have a child that seems to attract bullies then a good relationship with the teacher is essential. I have found this quite easy just by being positive, offering assistance, understanding that they are only human, showing an interest in their work and just a bit of sympathy.
Good luck with your search.

Thank you titaniak for pointing out that: ‘many parents believe teachers can offer something that they themselves can’t.’ Parents do have greater abilities than they realise. You are so right schools do not have: 'some magic formula which will turn out an educated individual at the other end’
Most teachers face up to the fact that the system is flawed, and that there are no quick fix solutions. Human beings are complex individuals, and a one size fits all approach will never be effective. The problems with the education system are not to be solved by more bureaucracy
School is not the only place through which one can obtain an education. Most adults say they did most of their learning once their schooling had finished. There is a place for school, but there equally is a place for home education as well. More variety is needed in education not less.

An excellent article with plenty of appropriate responses.
I was the subject of schoolyard bullying, & it did indeed affect my academic performance at various stages through secondary school. I handled the problems in different ways, but only after having wasted considerable time living with fear & avoiding confrontation. Usually, it only took well-timed words & luck. I found most ‘bullies’ shocked at a response & accordingly moved on to a lesser target
I also infrequently engaged in ‘group bullying’ myself.
Kids have primitive tendencies & for most, school, or some form of major social activity is essential for social learning & their development into adults. Children should be allowed to be educated away from social groups only under extreme circumstances.
The abolition of corporal punishment, a barbaric practice, was a good thing – but we failed to replace its ‘disciplinary’ role in creating order. The missing link is within the Education system itself. At least one full-time ‘social development’ specialist should be employed at each public secondary school. The role should be ‘proactive’ & interventionist. Quite simply, this should be the responsibility of the School Principal or similar. It is that great a responsibility.
The chronically shy should have an escape, although I do believe confrontation of social fear is the best & ultimate solution. Shy kids need to be taught the value of ‘fighting their fears’. I taught myself this & to an extent still enjoy the challenge of self-confrontation, although now, having caught up with society, the desire is less.

The importance of choice of school that is mentioned in Sajo's recent post seems counter, to me, to earlier posts accusing home education of being a self-interested response to a problem we should seek to solve collectively.

We can't all afford to choose a school such as the one Sajo describes (see esp. points 1, 4 and 6).

It is important, then, that we are all free to choose an education for our children that allows for the committment and enthusiasm of the educator(s): home education.

Home educators are concerned that new education legislation will impede this choice.

Further, the new legislation as it is drafted will not solve the problem of bullying, if to do so involves addressing Sajo's list of factors that influence a school's culture.

Carol G

Swilkie, you make a very good point that bullying affects academic performance. That is so true, and is often the forgotten outcome of bullying.
It is also true that: “some form of major social activity is essential for social learning & their development into adults.”
However I should point out that home education provides for this. Most home educators are organised into groups, these groups meet at least once a week, additionally there are many other social activities that home educators can pick and choose from on a weekly basis. Not to mention the fact that home educators are often very involved in their communities, they often undertake outside classes and they are also usually involved in sporting clubs and other organisations.
Home education provides rich and varied socialisation.

I am not a home schooler but my child is being bullied in school and I just don't know where to turn. The school don't believe me or her. I have been searching the internet for something helpful and this is the first glimmer of light I have found. The concept of home schooling is totally alien to me but I will certainly look into it and whether I decide to go ahead or not, I will certainly support the option of home schooling in terms of the law in future. I will not vote for a party who would make such an option difficult.

My child must be saved from the daily torment she is going through and I will do whatever it takes to save her.

My experience with two local Primary Schools is that the one which didn't "need a bullying policy" because they had "no bullying problem" had a much higher incidence of bullying than the next we tried that had an active anti-bullying program. Three children holding my child down and kicking and punching him was accepted as "boys will be boys".

The second school, for all of the talk of "individual learning programs", provided a report for the final term of school, during which my son was not present. Complete with handwritten comments by the various teachers.

Home education has allowed my son to rediscover his love of learning and to develop his social skills in a 'real world' environment that school could never provide. We meet regularly with many other home educators. It is an absolute pleasure to watch the range of children of many ages mixing together. Groups form naturally for different activities and children can join and change groups as suits them. They gain experience in relating to children and adults of all ages.

Where else, except school, are people expected to spend all day with a group selected by being the same age as them?

I am concerned that the proposed Victorian education legislation brings bureaucracy and restrictions to the ability of parents to choose home education and yet the government has not shown that there is any problem with the current legislation in regard to home education. The current legislation allows the government to intervene if they don't think the parents are providing an adequate education. It is interesting to note that this intervention is seldom used.

I don't want to have to spend time reporting on how my child's education program fits into their criteria - which have been developed to suit a mass, school based education, not the type of education that occurs in the one on one learning in the home. Home education is not a school at home.

Parents have the right and responsibility to decide on their children's education, whether that is to select a particular school or to choose home education.

Marnie Lee, thanks for the support, it’s amazing just how much of it there is out there, when people are made aware that home ed is a viable option. I hope you manage to find a resolution to the bullying for your family that works for you. Take care and hugs! By the way, a letter/email to your local state MP’s or paper would be really helpful in getting the support for Home ed recognised. We need as much support from everyone as is possible to make sure that we are allowed the right to continue to home educate if we so choose.

I agree Brenda. I don’t want to be subjected to unnecessary and invasive scrutiny of my family and our educational standards. Home ed is viable, exceptionally effective and the ‘regulations’ that are being proposed leave too much room for abuse. They are so subjective, that any change of government, ministers, or agenda could have catastrophic effects. The Labor government has proven themselves to be anti-home education in every state of Australia. This law will be passed as they have a clear majority in lower and upper houses. They are abusing this power quite unscrupulously. The Labor government complain bitterly when the Liberals abused their majority in the federal government to bring in new anti terror and IR laws (against public opinion) and yet they are playing the same game – all in the same breath as bringing in Victoria’s first Bill of Rights. A serious case of the pot calling the kettle black.

I have seen delightful, helpful children come home after starting school, and start bullying their younger siblings, and being rude to their parents. Why? because this is the behaviour they see modelled at school. Teachers and schools have bullying policies in place, but bullies are clever, like child molesters/abusers. They pick their victims carefully, and do things to them in a way that the victim will not speak out, or be believed.

Someone metnioned in this discussion that by taking the victim away from the situation, we are teaching kids to run away from bullies. I suggest that we should develop a system, such as homeschooling where children aren't subjected to bullying at all.
The other problem with schools, (and as a student teacher I spend a bit of time in schools) is that TEACHERS often use bully tactics without recognising their actions as such.
HOWEVER I feel the benifits of homeschooling are far greater than avoiding bullying.
We learn, as teachers, that students learn most effectively when (a)they are able to set the curriclum themselves. A child interested in rocketships, will learn to read most effectively if exposed to more literature on rocketships.
(b)They work at their own pace, so while homeschool students may be behind their institutionalised counterparts, in some respects, some may be far ahead.
A school environment can't provide the best education for anyone except the five average Joes in each class of thirty. The 'bright' kids are going to get bored (and possibly start bullying) and the 'slow' kids are going to get stressed, upset, and left behind.
Homeschooling is like extension classes for everystudent. If a student needs more time spent on calculus, they have that time one on one with their teacher. If a child is doing really well with physics, they can expand their interest, and maybe do year 12 physics when they are year 8 aged.
Regulating homeschooling, as the government is currently attempting, will take away all these excelent benifits, and educate only a bunch of half brained consumers.

Just my humble opinion. GO HOMESCHOOLERS.

AdrianG

Sajo. It is true that if you can get into a school with a high representation of Asians etc you will find less attitude problems in relation to your kids learning, gifts or talents, more support and less bullying.

Problem is that these schools are not easy to get into and they don’t take out of area – I know, we have tried. We live in the Sutherland shire - it is predominantly Anglo Saxon and they do tend to have a different attitude to learning here. Even though, I do think that attitudes here are changing slowly. Thank God!.

Some cultures see learning almost as a punishment; others see it as preparation for the future. How the parents view education influences how the children view it and how they respond.

I am looking for a school for this year for my daughter for Year 6. She wants to spend her last year in Primary at school. Last year she applied for one school as she has a lot of good friends there but they said they were full and that we have to wait until they get their numbers this year before they will know if they will have room for her. She refuses to attend the local school as her best friend there left to move to the Country and my daughter says that she was not well liked by a lot of the girls at that particular school. People often don’t realise that it is difficult when other people see you as different and treat you accordingly.

If anybody knows of a low fee school that isn’t scared of difference and has a place this year in Year 6 for one motivated accelerated intellectually gifted girl who is mature, responsible, polite, kind, witty, loves learning and functions at a very high level consistently and also excels in sport and music and it is within reasonable distance to Sutherland - we would love to know. Meet my daughter
Amanda who is desperately looking for a good school for Year 6 http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a22/kc2222222/amanda.jpg

Marnie Lee

I hope you get the problem sorted out one way or another. The website I mentioned earlier (http://www.bullying.co.uk/index.html) gave some good practical advice and links for approaching schools and for students who are experiencing bullying. Several posters have given contacts if you are interested in homeschooling and the Board of Studies sites have links too.

My advice is to have everything in writing with dates and copies kept; keep a diary; try to see things from the schools point of view as well as your own; don't accept any excuse; suggest specific actions rather than just demanding something be done (eg. insist that the bullies parents are notified, that your child and the bullies are continuously supervised, that the school follows through with discerning what caused the behaviour, that the OHS committee is notified, that you are informed at all stages what is happening). Also try to be calm, confident and positive and most importantly trust your own instincts. If nothing else happens you have at least been a good example to your child.

I would also discuss the problem with other parents and raise the issue at P&C. There may be a school councillor who should be involved. Check first how much information you can give out for legal reasons and make sure it is accurate. Try not to lay blame on the school or teachers unless you are certain they have been negligent as this will only build up barriers. Everyone will need to work together to get anything done. If other parents know there is a problem they will no doubt get further information from their own children which could help back up your claims and start things moving. It may even identify other children who are also being bullied but have not reported it. Hope this helps.

Thank you Jolanda - I wish I could recommend a school for you - don't live in your area. The best of luck for you and your lovely daughter.

Dianne

I think that the Government is overstepping their mark in relation to home education in Victoria. I believe that this might be happening because they are concerned by the amount of people leaving the system and taking the home education option as it makes them look bad. So in order to protect their reputation they are trying to discredit homeschoolers and make things difficult so that those that take the option risk getting ostrasized by the community and a bad reputation. It’s another form of bullying.

If the Government, who regularly fails large numbers of students without having to take any responsibility, is so worried about home schooled children, all they need to do is to make them sit the Basic skills type tests that all school children do. Then, so long as the student passes the national benchmark it should be enough. If it is enough for the kids that are in school to pass basic literacy levels standards – why not those that are homeschooled?. The benchmarks are so low that it is difficult to fail. In writing in NSW one year the national benchmark was 17 out of 65. The Education system worries about homeschoolers whilst they drop their benchmarks and standards to a level that produces illiterate students.

What parents should do, if they can, is remove their children from school if they are having a bad year/teacher or change their schools if the problem is student based. If parents refused to leave their children in environments that were detrimental to their health and development the schools would have to have a change in attitude. A bad teacher or bullying can do so much damage. Why, if you could, wouldn’t you take your child out, homeschool them for the year and then return them the next year or make changes to find a better educational fit for your child.

Oh and I also just wanted to say thanks to all of you that have commented and/or offered support and understanding.

Marnie I feel so sad for your daughter and family as I know it isn’t easy.

Okay, so I admit it, I voted Labor but if we can hold of this legislation until the next election - I can become a swing voter - unless Labor changes it's ideas on home education.

Marnie Lee, we tried homeschooling, initially for a year but that is now 7 years ago - we love it! Home education - bringing families back together!

Oops...that "of" would be "off" and "it's" would be "its". Getting a little carried away here.

We are a home schooling family. Our children were in the system for five years. Pulling them out was the best decision we made.
Bullying is rife in our school system. While this was one consideration it wasn’t the sole motive. My husband and I believe with complete certainty that it’s the best life choice for our children. The following are some reasons why: -

1. Originality and desire is never squashed; it’s always nurtured and encouraged
2. They have the freedom to become the people they want to be without conforming to those around them
3. They have the liberty to choose their friends regardless of age, gender or ethos (yes, they have many friends)
4. They can travel (Europe for two months this year)
5. They can become skilled at things that interest them i.e. French, piano, war history or cooking
6. They are free of hostility, drugs and overt sexuality
7. They can rest when they’re tired or sick, eat when they’re hungry and pee when the need arises
8. They can choose when to play with their friends and when to be alone
9. Their sibling relationship is very close

These are just a few of the reasons why we have chosen home schooling. It is a vision that we have for our children. We sacrifice for it. We do without financially at times for it. Yet the rewards are far greater than what we give up. Our 13-year-old son has been a filmmaker since he was 7. He was the youngest child to have work experience at Channel 10. He has volunteered with me on a video production for people with mental illness. He has his own business called ‘Shadowflame Designs’. He plays the drums and is at level 5 in trampoline. He has a bunch of great friends who never bully or intimidate him but let him be the amazing individual he is.
What more could you ask for? Happiness? He’s got that too.

I’m sure most of the respondents to this journal are intelligent people, fully capable of educating their children at home, with specialised outside assistance. But the question I do ask, is whether a truly balanced education, one which truly prepares a child for the rigors of adult working life, can be provided in this manner?
Many seem to realise the eventual benefits of professional secondary education. Why do so many want to write off ‘group’ education as we know it? Surely it is much better to fix the problem. Parents should be representing their concerns to the schools. Loudly. If ones child is being obviously harassed & the school denies the situation, the school is breaching its duty of care – professional misconduct. Ultimately the school principal is responsible. If bringing the problem to this level of authority provides no solution, take up the issue with the dept of education. There are responsible people within the School system, but they may take some finding.
I also ask those parents seriously considering removing their children from the school system-
What part does their own insecurities play a part in their plans for their child?
There are many other minor reasons for formal secondary education, not the least being access to formal tertiary education. I’m a qualified engineer & at 44 would have no chance at preparing my child for even yr11 higher mathematics. A computer is not enough. A good HSC result (in NSW) is essential for university entrance for the scientific professions.
I would like to hear from home educators, theoretical or practising, on how they meet the questions & challenges mentioned above..

Swilke,
Parents have been trying to change school system world-wide now for over 30 years now. They have screamed very loudly and many have spent most of their working lives trying to change it from the inside as well as outside to no avail. No-one is hearing because most of have been indoctrinated into thinking that learning only happens in schools and from school teachers in a classroom setting.
I have two sons, both in University - both home-schooled all their lives. One is midway through his Phd in Aerospace Engineering, the other almost finished an Arts degree majoring in Film Making. One of the myths surrounding home education is that the parent is the sole provider of their child’s education. In fact, it is the child that is the sole provider of his/her education. My sons were born loving space and films. I have watched them grow and teach themselves about the passions in their lives. I have watched as my older son, taught himself computer design so that he could design his own model aircraft and watched as he flew them. I then watched as he taught himself calculus and advanced math to test his theories of fight. I watched as he aced a TAFE Diploma in Aerospace and I recently watched as he won the most academically outstanding student of the year in Aerospace Engineering. I have watched both of them moved easily into tertiary study though their own efforts. I never finished high school Swilkie I don’t believe you can get a truly balanced education in schools as this is someone else’s idea of an education. The only truly balanced education is the one you give yourself. At any age!

Swilkie - I am with you. I like the idea of children being able to learn at their own pace but I really think this becomes difficult once the child reaches the stage where the parent has to catch up. I have tried teaching University students before outside my main subject. I found it exhausting trying not to let on that I had only learnt most of the material just hours before. We managed it but it was far from easy and I dreaded the questions! The difference between being taught by someone who really understands and enjoys a subject compared with just looking up the information and answering the questions is immense. However, to be fair not all teachers are up to that level either. I can see the point in homeschooling for children who have special needs or if there really is no suitable school. Otherwise it is just a lifestyle choice that I don't believe offers any particular benefit and there are plenty of disavantages.

All the talk of having lovely children, mixing with other children of different ages and being able to do maths while shopping is ridiculous - every child has these opportunities whether homeschooled or not. It is not as if they spend 24 hours a day at school. I am a strong believer in parental involvement in education - especially learning to read and instilling a love of learning and curiosity. I really have nothing against the homeschooling option and am glad everyone is so happy doing it. I would hate not to be able to take my child out of school for a while if they were really unhappy. However if it makes you self-righteous and defensive I think I shall stick with the real world - faults and all.

I agree with you that it is about time we kicked up more of a fuss about the public school system. The government seems to want to keep running it into the ground and forcing people into the private sector or even homeschooling. Free education for all is a fundamental right.

Swilke and Sajo,

Please don't get the idea that home educators do not respect other parent's choice to send their children to school.

In fact many of us support our friends with children in school to the point where it is to us that they come when they need to talk about school problems. Perhaps because I am outside the system, they seem more comfortable to pour out their problems to me. I couldn't count the times I have had a friend crying on my couch about their children's school problems. They know that I will listen, sympathise and understand and that I will also honour their choice to work through the problem with the school as best they can. They also know why I have made the choice to home educate, they understand and accept that without feeling any pressure to do so themselves.

In addition many of us care for other people's children during school holidays or on curriculum days whilst their parents work.

The choice of school education is the other half of our own choice and we therefore honour that choice. At the moment Victorian home educators are fairly defensive but that is only because our choice is being threatened.

I would like to thank Ludwina for listing some great reasons to home educate, I agree with every one. Bullying may have been part of the decision to leave the school system, but this list says a lot about why we choose to stay out of it. Having said this, I do support other parents making the decision to send their children to school, however, I would like to see this being a more informed decision, not as it is now where many people don't realise there is any other choice.
I've also noticed that some posters are making the mistake of thinking that home educated children only learn from their parents. My children learn from me if they want to learn something that I know, otherwise they learn from somewhere (or someone) else.
I think another missed point, is that we only learn when we want to and no one can teach us something that we have no interest in. And unfortunately, the way subjects are presented at school can make them seem very dull. I was always bored by history at school and learnt very little, but since leaving school, I have found history to be fascinating.
Those of us who choose to home educate, are very committed to our children’s ongoing happiness and well being, and no teacher, or government official, is ever going to care more about our children than we do.

Thank you everyone for the information and debate you have provided here. I have done some reading on home education and am very attracted by the idea - especially as the time to return to school looms closer.

But I am worried about this change to the law. I don't really understand it. Homeschoolers already have to provide 'efficient and regular' instruction don''t they? What is the law change and what difference will it make?

Can someone explain simply what it all means?

Sajo, how is your world more real than that of a person whose child or children gained an education without formal schooling?

Defending a form of education that many have chosen but is still a minority choice, that is unfunded, and that is under threat from proposed new legislation, by pointing to how it has worked (e.g. one poster's sons are doing very well at university without formal schooling) is not self-righteousness.

There is a gap between how people imagine home-school would be, and how it is. Home educators have posted their experiences here, answered questions or countered assertions that are misleading: an important one being whether it is possible to gain entrance to tertiary-level education without formal schooling. How is that self-righteous?

Carol G.

Marnie Lee,

The fundamental difference is this legislation shifts the emphasis from proving that your child is receiving an education to proving that you are complying with regulations. A child might be receiving an excellent education but his parents could be fined/prosecuted for not complying with regulations.

The added problem is that the government refuses to reveal what these regulations will be until after they have passed the legislation compeling us to comply with them. Their only comment has been that the regulations will ensure that home educators meet 'minimum standards'.

'Minimum standards' sounds all very well in the popular press, but what does it really mean? The general population might expect it to mean that every child will reach an acceptable academic standard in the 3Rs. Home educators are already ensuring this by providing 'regular and efficient instruction' and the onus is on them to be able to prove it.

However, I doubt very much whether this is what the government means because they are setting 'minimum standards' for their own schools also. Any teacher will tell you that there are some children who are just never going to meet the academic expectations regardless of curriculum/regulations etc. The government won't set standards for its schools that it can't meet so the minimum standards are more likely to set down curriculum, teaching methods, hours spent on each subject and so on. None of these things guarantees the kind of minimum standards parents expect.

Much of the benefit of home education is that the parent can tailor the education to meet the child's needs - providing more practice at one thing, moving on from things the child has mastered and trying alternative methods when something doesn't suit his learning style. This beneift could be lost by conforming to regulations and reproducing the school system in the home - a system which has already failed the child.

There is a chance that the regulations won't be onerous but because the government won't make them public, we suspect that making them public would not reflect well on them.

I would like to say that I found sajo’s comments regarding Asian families highly offensive.
I am Asian, and I can tell you this, most Asians hate that type of ignorant stereotyping that says we all place a high priority on education or are good at school. It is just as racist as any vilifying comment.
And what’s the big deal about living in a middle class community? That is a very elitist attitude to have.
There are some very self righteous comments being made here, but they are not coming from the homeschoolers. Do homeschoolers often have to face bigotry like this?

To Sajo,
As a long term home educating parent I sigh with resignation when I read comments (yet again) about 'the real world' or 'socialisation' and all the other ill-informed comments made by people ignorant of what home education is for the families that choose the lifestyle. I agree with Carol G's comments on your last contribution.

I have a suspicion, Sajo, that many of your comments are in the form of being the Devil's Advocate. The quality of the responses on this forum has been interesting and insightful and I am sure your many contributions have encouraged people to respond, just as I am doing now.

My sympathy goes to the parents struggling with finding the right school for their child/ren. I agree with the many remarks that suggest self confidence as being more important than a degree for a home educating parent. I have a teaching qualification but it was more about traffic/group control and filling in paperwork and less about self determination, self confidence and a love of learning.

On the topic of bullying: I have been reading "Nineteen Eighty-Four' again and I am finding it singularly depressing. It is 56 years since it was written and it is still so relevant, and that is really sad. Orwell recognised apathy and fear as contributing to the plight of the people in his story and this forum has recognised many examples of apathy and a refusal to be involved (through fear) as contributing to the ongoing problem of bullying in schools.

I am disappointed but not surprised that our State Labour Government is trying to stifle home education. It has been a long term policy of the Education Department, or at least the office in my district, to miss-inform parents (via the schools) about their options regarding home education and thereby limiting parents’ choices for their children’s education.

When I approached (before Christmas) my local member (Labour candidate) about the proposed changes he was unaware of the proposal. He promised to get back to me on the subject. I am still waiting...

MA Allen - "I have a suspicion, Sajo, that many of your comments are in the form of being the Devil's Advocate. The quality of the responses on this forum has been interesting and insightful and I am sure your many contributions have encouraged people to respond, just as I am doing now".

Oh well I have been discovered. I always loved a good argument and thought this issue was well worth discussing. I really have nothing against homeschooling and can see many of its merits. I was mainly interested in the bullying aspect in this forum so am a little disappointed that it wasn't addressed further. However it has been interesting to hear some of peoples experiences with homeschooling. I hope that we have managed to increase awarenes of both bullying and the homeschooling option. It has made me think more about the advantages of schools and group education though and I am more convinced that the school system is best for the majority. I don't believe that children are any better educated at home or that they have more freedom to achieve their desires - quite the opposite in fact as parents have more control over what their children are exposed to. School is more structured and children have to take turns and interact in group situations which is good practice for adulthood. But there I go again stirring the pot. However it should always be a personal choice and I hope that the regulations do not become too limiting.
Thanks everyone and good luck to those who have asked for help.

Maya - it may well be stereotyping but it is not racist. I apologise if you have taken offense - none intended. I was trying to identify to Jolanda what attributes of a particular school contributed to its success. Nothing more, nothing less.

Lyn. You must be so proud of your sons. You would agree however that your children are not average children? Not many children are born with the intellectual potential and self motivation to reach the levels that your children are reaching whilst just being watched. Not all parents are able to provide an “optimal learning environment” at home. What we need to find is the best fit to provide for the differing needs of the individual children and families. There is no real right way or wrong way to Educate – just different ways.

My children are highly intellectually gifted. My husband and I are not highly educated, both leaving school age 14. We cannot provide the supportive educational learning environment that you have provided for your children. We cannot afford to pay to fill our gaps as the gaps are too far and wide and I cannot pretend that I am interested in subjects that I am not for 13 years x 4. My children don’t have passions, they can excel in everything and they don’t know what they want to do, they need direction, encouragement and guidance. My family needs the support of the schools to educate our children!.

There is nothing wrong with the concept of school. My kids love being students, they just don’t like what has been allowed to happen in our schools and believe that we need to raise the standards ethically, socially and educationally. Not to mention hygienically. Not all students benefit from being homeschooled as some love being independent and they enjoy and need their time away from home.

My kids have always chosen to stand up for their rights and to fight for justice and change in the Education system and although they have been through hell because they have been outspoken - they continue to choose to push for change for the sake of all children.

I too am so proud of my children because I know that their choices haven’t been easy! It isn’t easy to stand up to bullies.

Maya. I understand your sensitivity in relation to some people's attitude to learning and Asians, as some accuse Asians of pushing their children too much and of course there are always some that do. That happens to different degrees in all cultures. Other cultures dont push their chidren enough! The majority always seem to have to pay the price for the minority - unfortunately.

However, I believe that Asians are just smart enough and strong enough to stand above all the critisism and gossip in relation to the education of their children. They support each other. They want to succeed, are hard working and ambitious and they are not going to sit and wait. The benefits are easy to see and other cultures would be wise to take note.

We should learn from the Asians, as children need a focus and they need to be encouraged (sometimes even pushed) as otherwise they will find their own focus and that usually leads to trouble. Best if the focus is their studies as that will prepare them better for their future.

I thought sajo was complimenting Asians.

Many people are fooled by the 'home' in homeschooling. Sure, our kids are home a lot, but that doesn't mean they aren't learning in small or large group situations. In addition to getting together with other homeschooling families for all kinds of social and educational activities, including debating and games clubs, sports activities, art and craft, science activities and days at the beach, pool or park, homeschooled kids also attend afterschool and vacation classes together with with schooled kids.

In fact, a common trap for new homeschooling families is to overdo it: parents quickly find themselves in the role of chauffeur, spending many hours each week ferrying children from one activity to another. Carschooling - using time sitting in cars as an opportunity to extend learning has become very popular. One mum I know declared each Sunday a 'family only' day as it was the only day there were no social or educational committments planned!

Most homeschooled kids are naturally curious about school, especially high school. Homeschooling parents naturally want the best for their children and they're willing to try most resources, at least once. Families new to homeschooling worry incessantly about what happens after childhood: will their child get into tertiary education without a HSC? The answer is YES! With an increasing number of homeschooled children making their way into the adult world of work and education it's getting easier to convince people that high school is but one path kids can take: there are others, equally suitable that will get you where you want to go, sometimes faster and more effeciently. The rsources are already there in the community for us to take advantage of, and that's what many homeschoolers are learning to do.

Hi Jolanda, your comments are very interesting, however, you are not home educating, you are doing distance education, which is different. The only similarity is that both forms of education do not take place in a school. I think I have made this point before, but it is important to clarify that distance education is not the same as home education, and therefore it would be difficult to equate your experiences with those of home educators.
It is true that both schools and home educators need support, but I think it should be pointed out that schools already get a lot of government support and home educators get none. So the scales are already unfairly tipped on the side of schools.
I wish you well with your search for a good school for your children, and I agree the quality of schools does need to be raised drastically

Several problems surround the concept of home education in Australia. (please feel free to argue these points, they are but my opinion.)
Firstly, home education appears to be the domain of the wealthy. There is no possibility of the ‘average’ one or two parent family finding the resources to be able to give up full-time employment for the benefit of their offspring’s education. The vast majority of families in present Australia require more than one breadwinner. The number of families therefore excluded from the alleged benefits of home education number in the majority.
Schools actually exist so that modern industrial society may exist. The primary function of schooling is that of an ‘educational creche’ - somewhere safe & useful for kids to go while mum & dad are out eking a living.
It would not surprise me at all to find our present governments, State & Feral (sic) supporting home education. Economic rationalism rules – less at school means less schools.
While I’m not at all familiar with legislation surrounding home education, it would appear that the ‘policing’ of a home education system would be nigh on impossible without a centralised examination system. It could be said that this already exists through Tertiary entrance examination. This seems vastly inadequate.
I ask all the advocates of home education to think beyond their own family & realise that we are a society. To withdraw ones children from public education is to announce that the system is ‘not good enough’ or irrelevant. For the benefit of all, I suggest that you exercise your right to educate at home, but match this ‘luxury’ with positive moves that help to correct the problems within the education system that are the basis for your decision. If one has the time & means to educate at home, one surely has the resources to make some sort of social impact, for the benefit of those less fortunate.
I also ask again – how many parents are choosing the home education option to satisfy their own insecurities?

Hey Hasbeen a man after my own heart.My son attended a special arts course at Kalamunda High School Perth.He was bullied by some 16 yr old fat cretin twice his size on a regular basis,so being a product of social engineering and a pseudo psychologist my self I atteded the school to sort the problem out.After demanding an audience with one of the teachers concerned(who incidently couldn't find her own arse-hole with two hands)I sat down to discuss the problem rationally.With no tangible effort on her part to solve the problem,she asked me if I had any suggestions.
I said "Of course but nothing you would subscribe to,I have told my son if this cretin touches him again to drive a compass into one of his eyes or failing that break a ruler and shove it up his arse" I thought the poor women was going to faint,and heaven forbid I would have to give her mouth to mouth she had a face like ten miles of bad road.

On the way out of the school I saw the said offender and told him exactly what I would do to him should he even breath oxygen near my son.His father rang me later that day and was very upset,and what he wasn't going to do to me.I gave him my address and surprise,surprise, he was just like his son full of piss and wind.

When I went to school in the fifty's bullys were given short shrift by the teachers and the families of the victims.Bullying has increased because we have taken the primal instincts out of our kids to defend themselves.I do not condone violence or have ever used it to prove anything,but if you man handle me or mine you will get it back in spades.

Sajo said “I was mainly interested in the bullying aspect in this forum so am a little disappointed that it wasn't addressed further”. In what manner would you like this addressed?

Interesting comments you make, Swilkie. Am not looking for an argument, as you seem to invite, however would like to jot down a few responses in return.

“Firstly, home education appears to be the domain of the wealthy. There is no possibility of the ‘average’ one or two parent family finding the resources to be able to give up full-time employment for the benefit of their offspring’s education.”

They can be found all across the country (and across the world). Wealthy, on the breadline and everywhere in-between. Single or both parents present, taking responsibility for those they have brought into the world.

“That the primary function of schooling is that of an educational crèche – somewhere safe and useful for kids to go whilst mum and dad are working.”

I’ll leave this one for someone else to answer in detail in regards to the history of schools. In my opinion schools are generally not safe and are well past their use-by date or usefulness!

“To withdraw ones children from public education is to announce that the system is ‘not good enough’ or irrelevant.”

Um… what ’s so wrong with that? Would you stay with a bank if it continually messed you around or charged exorbitant fees? Or the butcher if the meat he sold was off? No, you’d be off with a “not good enough” and they’d be lucky if they ever got to know the reason for your swift departure. (See next post for more)

“I ask all the advocates of home education to think beyond their own family & realise that we are a society.”

And we’re raising our children out IN society – not tucked away in an artificial environment until a certain age when they’re foisted out onto society again, largely ill-equipped and ill-prepared. My children have had experience of both, now, and I know which I’d prefer.

Continued:

“I suggest that you exercise your right to educate at home, but match this ‘luxury’ with positive moves that help to correct the problems within the education system that are the basis for your decision. If one has the time & means to educate at home, one surely has the resources to make some sort of social impact, for the benefit of those less fortunate.”

Let me clarify this, Swilkie… So not only are we working hard to raise and educate our children in a manner which will result in them being knowledgeable, compassionate, caring and creative, curious people, we have to help “fix” the school system that we either left or never entered in the first place, as well? And in regards to the parents who will probably never send their children to a school, ever, why would they pour time and energy into helping correct the mainstream educational system? How about the parents in the system taking up the mantle en-masse?

Of all the homeschoolers (estimated to be upwards of 50,000 in Australia), someone like myself would be in a good position to “have a go”, given my experience of both the school system and home education as both involved parent, and paid and volunteer classroom assistant. I’ve witnessed what really goes on and I am doing my bit to bring about change but it’s a big task. I’ve wondered at times if a group of concerned parents needs to camp at the Prime Ministers office until a meeting is granted with himself and the Education Minister. Any sort of real change needs to come from the top, not local school districts and certainly not individual schools.

Bullying is certainly a major problem but not the only one in schools.

PS: Upon re-reading your paragraph above I take it you mean that the “less fortunate” are those who attend school – which means you obviously consider home educated children to be the more fortunate. NOW you’re talking!

I’m simply suggesting that this is an area where our total social responsibility must be taken into consideration. It may outweigh the right of the individual.

Swilkie,
It seems that Eco has answered the part of your statement about home education being a luxury now I will attempt to answer your concerns about home educators not pulling their weight in this society.
You are right in that schools exist so that our modern industrial age can exit. Schools are and always have been training grounds for the workers both blue collar and white of this society of ours They were purposely designed for that reason. Individualism is sacrificed so that the majority of the populous can keep the industrial wheels turning but there has to be a balance in any endeavour. The fallout from this consumer oriented and fear based society we have been trained to keep alive is all around us but most don’t see or really care .The destruction of the environment, fowling of our planet not to mention the loss of self and this last one catches up with most of us at sometime in our lives. I want my children to be part of that balance and to hear other voices than money. We can’t go on for ever like this and there is not much time left to turn it around. I am ashamed that we have let corporate greed rule this world but I will not stand back and let it continue. Our only ammunition is a new way of educating our young and I am starting now before it's too late

Swilkie, I am afraid you are very much off track when you describe home educators as wealthy. Maybe a few are, but the majority are not.
Those who choose home education do so for many reasons and beliefs. There is no one socio economic class to which home educators originate from.
It is a common misconception that the introduction of mass education produced a literate and better educated society. Literacy levels actually went down after the introduction of mass education, and have been on the decline ever since. If you think about it, in our time Charles Dickens is considered great literature, however in the Victorian times it was akin to pulp fiction. Shakespeare was for the masses in the 16th and 17th century, it was enjoyed by peasant and royalty alike. Today that is not the case. Despite mass schooling the educational gulf between people has widened and not narrowed.
I understand that the concept of education outside the school environment is difficult for many to get their head around, as this requires thinking outside the box of institutionalised mass education. This is not an ability that all possess.
Home educators have found a practical solution to a complex problem, they should be praised and not criticised. It would be a frightening, Orwellian, society indeed if we were all forced to march to the beat of the same drum

Hi Chris - for the record, I have two kids that have recently started Distance Education, one wants to return to school this year for Year 6, and two kids attending different high schools – one public and one Catholic.

During the year 2000, I home-schooled my youngest daughter

During 2002 to 2004 my youngest son had so much time off school that he was essentially being home-schooled.

During the year 2003, I home-schooled my high-school son

During the year 2005, I home-schooled my Year 5 daughter and Year 2 son.

In the 2nd last school week of 2005 my two home-schooled children were finally successful in being provided with Distance Education so, I have received two Distance Education packages. Already I have experienced difficulties and have had to ask the teacher whether, if my daughter has questions, can she email the teacher direct – because I don’t know the answers and I truly struggle to explain things and my kids ask a lot of difficult questions in relation to what they are being told and taught and what is expected. That causes all of us to get frustrated – nothing is ever simple for them, everything is always answered with “well it depends”.

I have got experience and that is why I know that home-schooling is not the best option for every family and child. It really does depend on the circumstances and personality of each individual child and family.

Home-schooling should be a supported and recognized as another valuable method of educating students as for some it is very successful but not every family is in a position to home-school and not every child wants to be home-schooled. .

This topic really isn’t about what is being taught to our children in the home or the school, it is about how students and parents are being treated in education and whether attitudes need to change.

I believe we need to show more respect for parents and students and we need to provide fair and safe access to quality education for all students regardless of their educational choices.

One other thing that I found that home-schooling can not provide enough off for my children is competition! My children thrive on competition and it is something that really motivates them. They enjoy constantly challenging their peers in all areas.

Competition in academics, sport and even socially is what motivates many children! So long as it is presented in a manner that is FAIR, kids usually enjoy themselves and want to be involved! Problem with the Education system is that the competition isn’t fair and that is causing resentment, hostility, frustration and anger.

Of course not all kids like competition and not all competition is being played fair. That’s why home-schooling can be such a great option, or the only option for some!

The ultimate would be if the system played fair and if home-schoolers were welcomed and encouraged to join in and use the facilities at the schools and even join some classes. Combining the school, teacher/parent and home environment is a great way of dealing with the different issues that affect different children and of actually being inclusive and accepting instead of just playing lip service to it.

Parents need to stop arguing with each other about which one is better and support and help each other to ensure that regardless of which option you take that your choice is respected and your child has support and access to quality and appropriate education in a safe, supportive and caring environment.

Well said, Jolanda! All families are different, all children are different, and all should have the opportunity - and the support - to do what works for them.

Swilkie,

I do not know one ‘wealthy’ home educating family. I do however know many single parents (some who juggle work and home educate); I know many single income families who work hard to make ends meet; and I know many families who have joint income from a business they run at home in order to be able to share the workload and educational responsibilities. Home ed is not for the wealthy any more than it is for the poor. It is an educational choice, not an economic one and for many low income families it is the only alternative they have to the public system as they would never have the means to consider private schools.

In my family, there is one income, and let’s just say, we get taxed at a very low rate. It does cost more to home ed for us than it would in school, but we made the decision for the welfare of our children and so, we manage with one car, we grow our own veggies out of both necessity and the desire to give our children the best we can offer. I feel that two income families are driven out of consumerism and not real need. If we can manage with a large family on a small income, so too can anyone, but we are willing to make the sacrifices to see our dreams be made reality. So many in this world, feel that life is just not worth it unless they have 2 cars, a new home, the best appliances, and everything new. It is sad to see them working themselves to the bone for things they never have the time to enjoy.

To be continued.....

Hi Jolanda, I have never suggested that there should be less choice in education, quite the opposite actually. In fact in a previous post to you I said that:
” it is good both exist, as choice in education is important.”.

Forgive me for thinking that you used distance education exclusively, I was led to that assumption, as in another post you had said:
“You are right about many wanting to set their own curriculum when homeschooling. I am not one of those as I find it really difficult,”

You are correct when you say that parents and students need to be shown more respect. There is a lack of respect towards parents and students that is being displayed by the Victorian State Government at the moment. They are attempting to bring in a new Education Act, without allowing any time for discussion or debate. The proposed Act is very anti family and will adversely affect all parents whatever educational choices they have made.

In my opinion home educators are rich: we are rich in time for one another; rich in the ability to see past the norm and enjoy what we have; rich in creative solutions to costly problems and rich in the knowledge that we don’t have to have lots of money to be happy. My list of things I feel grateful for in our present state of life could go on for pages.

You ask about home educators satisfying their own insecurities. Perhaps this is so in some cases, but no more than the ordinary Mother satisfying her insecurities that she is not ‘there enough’ for her children by buying them everything they could ‘want’ and denying them the time they need by working longer hours to get them. Everyone has insecurities, and everyone has to try to overcome them in their own way. At least home education is a wholesome and creative outlet to help overcome parental fears because it actually solves the problem by giving you the time with the kids you need to become a good parent and the capacity to be there.

Oh, and by the way, you argue that as we are so fortunate, we should be able to spare the time to help in the cause of children in institutionalised schooling. We help our community on a day to day basis. We work in community groups as a family and help to lessen the environmental impact of the industrial society on our world, we get involved in projects to aid disadvantaged families and we live life with the attitude of 'see a need, fill a need'. We also make a stand by home educating to help shed light on the inefficient school system. Most home educating families I am friends with have similar levels of community involvement. I guess your experience with Home educators is rather limited?

Swilkie, you wonder how many people home-school due to their own insecurities. What sort of insecurities do you have in mind?

I have insecurities, and I try to be aware of them. I have fears, and try to face them. I have limitations, and learn what these are as I go along. I make mistakes and use them for self-correction.

I know that it took courage NOT to send my child to school, not to conform, when I'd decided to embark on home-based education. I know that it was scary NOT to return to the workforce and reclaim my status as a productive member of society (bestowed only on those with a job title). It's taken guts to act on my belief that home education is the way for us.

I ask you to clarify, Swilkie, what sort of insecurities you suspect drive the choice to home-school. (And how these are absent from the decision to send one's child to school.)

eCarol

TonyC - I sincerely hope that you are not teaching your children social history.

The introduction of Broadband internet has no doubt massively increased the amount of information available but a lot of it is opinionated drivel that has been selected to support a particular point of view. Just try looking up something that you know a lot about to see what I mean.

I am beginning to think that the idea of increasing regulation and using only prescribed curricula for homeschooling may not be such a bad idea.

Swilkie,
Your feeling that home educators are wealthy is of course totally erroneous. Many are poor and many struggle financially.
This is why the Bracks’ Government has decided to attempt to oppress this growing movement, as it feels that home educating parents have not the economic resources to fight back. They are essentially trying to bully the home educators out of existence. It would seem that they too have a knee jerk reaction to something that is different to the norm.
Home educators receive no funding or assistance from any government; state or federal, so how is it that we are taking from school education which receives much funding and assistance? Why do you feel that home educators must help a system that receives so much, when they receive nothing?
How does it detract from society, for some to choose to educate out side of the school system? Surely any healthy society thrives on diversity, rather than the opposite, so why is educational choice so abhorrent to you?
I would recommend that if you are interested in this discussion, you further research the home education movement, to better understand it rather than to make ill-informed assumptions.

Swilkie – I don’t think you will find much interest in social responsibility among those who have chosen to do things outside the system. Unfortunately self interest is now the norm in the wider community too – many parents send their children to private schools so as not to have to deal with the issues and even the public system finds it harder and harder to get parents involved unless their children are directly affected. It is a case of out of sight out of mind. The same applies to health care which no-one really bothers about until they or a family member becomes sick. Parents are ever more protective of their children to the extent that the next generation of young adults is likely to be a bunch of spoilt brats who live off their parents for as long as possible. Personally I believe it will take a major hike in interest rates for people to really value what they should be getting for free.

I find it so sad that children in less privileged families will eventually be denied the kind of education that can change lives. Eco is right that any real change must come from the top which means we, as voters, have the power to change things - so PLEASE write to your MP if you care enough about public education. It would be especially helpful if those who homeschool do so as you obviously feel very strongly that the school system is broken.

For too long we have relied on the Teachers Federation to make a stand which, given their very left wing bias, emphasis on teacher’s rights and some very dubious education policies, has only served to alienate themselves from the community

Sadly Sajo, in your haste to once more attack someone who is pro home education you have not checked your facts.
Firstly I have a degree in history. From your previous posts you would seem to have a back ground in Occupational Health and Safety. Unfortunately many in this county get much of their historical knowledge from documentaries. Much of this material is subjective, erroneous or does not look at a subject in depth.
The decline in literacy is a common topic of discussion amongst educated people. Literacy is on the decline both here and overseas. This is a fact, and is supported by much research.
Charles Dickens was much enjoyed by the masses and serialised in newspapers of the day, for all to enjoy. Today his work is considered great literature, as our standards have declined.
Shakespeare’s plays were performed mainly at the Globe theatre in London, and were enjoyed and understood by all levels of society. Today his work is incomprehensible to many people, again because of the decline in education, and the widening of the educational divide.

Sajo, I think you should cease these attacks, and have more respect for a parents right to choose the education that best suits their children. You say that you are not against home education and yet your posts prove otherwise. I do not understand the vehemence that you have displayed towards this movement, it would seem that you have an agenda here, but what it is I cannot discern as your position changes with each post

Completely off topic, but I have to point out, TonyC, that the main reason why Dickens and Shakespeare are considered difficult is not because 'standards have declined', but because language structure, spelling and word use has changed so much in the 400 years since Shakespeare, and the 200-odd years since Dickens. Probably in another 200 years Harry Potter will be considered to be written in difficult and archaic language!

Actually Laurie, Dickens popularity was at it’s height only about 160 years ago. Therefore the use of language is not so archaic, that we cannot grasp it’s meaning today. The decline in mass appeal for these works grows not out of the change in English language, but out of a decline in people’s ability to use the English language.
The language of Shakespeare was not the language of the common man, (although it is a frequent mistake that it was). However it was still understood by the majority of the population.
One only has to look at letters written centuries ago, and compare to letters of today to see that use of language has declined and literary standards have dropped.. The works of Shakespeare and Dickens are often raised in many articles and papers that decry the falling standards in literacy.

sajo is way off target and shows considerable ignorance of the nature of the homeschooling community by saying "I don’t think you will find much interest in social responsibility among those who have chosen to do things outside the system."

Outside what system? Just because our children don't go to the local public or private school doesn't mean they are outside of the education system. Surely the emphasis should be on quality rather than where - the place - that education takes place. The trend in forward thinking and acting schools and education departments is to utilise the community more as valuable educational resources, with student placings in the community and volunteers and business people invited into schools to work with students.

In addition, in South Australia you have to be enrolled to be exempted - this is the only way to legally homeschool, thus our children are actually firmly within the state education system. In this way the Minister for Education is ultimately responsible for the education of our children, no different from any other student.

Homeschooling families are usually very active in their communities, often volunteering their time with environmental groups, health and charity organisations. They see this work as an integral aspect of the education of their children, as well as giving service.

Comments regarding wealth are just as absurd: homeschooling is taken up by a wide cross-section of the community. Single parents on benefits homeschool. Single parents who work part-time homeschool, with a little bit of juggling. Sure, at a glance it looks like most two parent families opt to sacrifice material wealth so one parent can stay home full-time, but you'll find that many of these supplement income by working from home. Work is not an impediment to homeschooling for many families

Sajo wrote: “I may well be stereotyping but it is not racist.”

Sajo, to stereotype someone is a racist act, as you are prejudging them on the basis of their race. Hence the term prejudice.
Speaking of prejudice, why do you keep attacking homeschoolers on this forum? To the impartial eye, it would seem that you are perhaps bored, or lonely or both. The amount of time you seem to be spending on posting malicious comments would perhaps be better spent in other pursuits.
Alas, for the want of anything better to do, I am sure you will return tomorrow with more malevolence.

Hello one & all,
My bit about home education being a privilege of the wealthy has certainly touched a nerve. Would be interesting to see some stats if available. I’m sure there are many average working class families educating their kids at home, but I’m talking about the majority here. These are the numbers that are the base of my question-
Average blue collar wage (Sydney) - $520- $750 after tax
Av house mortgage or rent pw (Sydney) - $300- $600.
Hence the need for the second income. Even if working hours are staggered thru shiftwork, I cannot believe that there remains enough time for a correct education.
Tired, stressed parents are not teachers.
It did cross my mind that full-time social security recipients may have some chance, but this, once again, does not represent the majority. Home business may offer possibilities, but again falls outside working class. I also ask what legal home business offers the income & time required for home ed? Believe me, one works harder at self-employment than as an employee.
We live in an insecure, competitive, untrusting, self-centred, materialistic society.. Parents are more concerned than ever about the welfare of their kids, for now & for the future. To have ones offspring under their own guidance & protection 24hrs is almost essential for some, almost to the point of irrationality. I blame the mobile phone.
All I ask is for those considering home ed to consider ‘all’ the reasons for such a move, & to realise the greater social consequences of such a decision

May I add -
Every time a child is removed from the public school system, the school system is the loser. The public school system is the domain of the average aussie, therefore the average aussie is the loser. Not good.
I speak for the whole.

Yes, Swilkie, you did touch a nerve with your comments about home ed being a privilege of the wealthy! Those of us who have been involved with home ed over the years know from experience just how far off the mark these comments are.

1. We know many, many home ed families, and very few of these could be described as comfortably off, let alone wealthy!

2. Your comments have elicited strong reactions because many of us have really struggled to give our children the best opportunity possible. Our family, for example, has never been able to afford to buy a house. We are still renting, and my children are now adults.

3. I could never afford to pay for my children to enjoy extra activities, so I organized contras for as many as possible. In order for them to do ballet, I became the cleaner of the ballet school. For music lessons, I did secretarial work for the piano teacher. For German lessons, I did the German teacher's garden. And so on.

4. If you understood the true nature of home education you would not refer to the parent as 'teacher'. It is the children who teach themselves, and parents are the facilitators rather than the teachers. Parents can busy themselves with part-time work, or running a small business, as I did, Home educated children are mostly independently busy with their own self-generated activities.

5. It was because I was concerned with my responsibilities to society that I decided to home educate. That was the best contribution to the future I could ever make.

Addressing some myths:
It's been postulated that removing children from school somehow hurts schools. When school is hurting children physically, emotionally or academically, (particularly when it is the schools that do not believe in the potential of the children) one of the only options for those children to grow into their full potential is home education. Children whose potential and ability is stunted in the school system can, through home education become the kind of citizens who contribute socially, intellectually and economically to our society. It is possible to give children exceptional education in poverty although funding would make it more available to those who would most benefit. Exemption for homeschoolers on the pension to seek work has just been introduced to Social Security legislation.

The Office of the Minister for Education appears to have a good attitude towards the issues of our education system and the innovative solution of home education if the letter to me is anything to go by. It can be found at www.rosiereal.blogspot.com

If only George Orwell was alive today. Swilkies last posts would have given him enough material for a novel that would’ve eclipsed 1984. The type of social responsibility swilkie suggests would not be out of place in a totalitarian state.
Swilkie claims to speak for the whole, and begs parents to consider the greater social consequences of such a decision as home educating their own children. It is a brave leap in logic to suggest that removing children from an already overburdened system, will in someway harm the system. Home education actually provides significant relief to strained school facilities.
I think this tirade against home education springs more from an antagonism towards diversity, and a desire for uniformity, than for any real concern for the social good.

Hi Rosie, I read the Minister’s letter. I only wish Victoria’s Minister for Education was as enlightened and approachable on the topic of home education as yours.

I wish posters would use correct sentences and double space between paragraphs. Reading would be so much easier.

Surely home schoolers have the above basics?

I despair
Kay

PS: As I despair with the public schooling system.

I cannot comment on private schooling.

Swilkie - Tired, stressed parents are teachers! They are the teachers at our kid’s schools! You don’t have to be homeschooling your kids to be tired and stressed. I am sure that many teachers are parents and are very stressed and our kids are paying the price.

That is why we need to be understanding and supportive and help each other and most importantly respect each other because children learn by example whether they are at school or at home.

You know that it is true that every time a child is removed from the Public System to be home-schooled the system is the loser. It’s the same as people leaving their country because of war. If all the good people decide to go, then who will be left to fight for change?.

However, that’s not to say that home-schoolers should stay at school. Usually by the time parents take their children out of school they have done everything in their power to encourage change. More often than not they do it alone as the parents who use the schools do not support their choices, they criticize them and often ostrasize them because of their choices. You cannot ask parents to leave their children in an environment that is hostile and damaging to their own children’s health and wellbeing. If other parents showed understanding and publicly showed support to those that brought up issues at school maybe the schools would be forced to make changes.

Its very difficult to change anything on your own and the system knows that, that is why they divide. Parents need to stick together and respect each others choices as there is no right way or wrong way to educate – just different ways.

Mayo. In one of sajo’s previous posts on 2 January he said “And thanks everyone else for a good forum - most of my posts have been a little antagonistic mainly because the forum was becoming very one-sided and would soon have got very boring”.

There are those out there who find people supporting each other, helping each other, being understanding and kind towards one another as boring. They like to throw a few boots in order to antagonize people so that they can entertain themselves. There is a name for people like that and yes it is an attitude problem that you find a lot of in schools!

Its pretty much taught and encouraged in schools thats why bullying is so rife. This attitude problem stems from the top.

Before my children were born, I taught in an excellent private school. The discipline was consistent and teachers fair. Despite the safeguards, bullying occured. Rarely did overt bullying become a problem as it was dealt with early. It was the silent bullying of the pack that was more insidious. Children are experts at manipulating the behaviour of their peers, and when in a group are experts at exclusion and subtle put downs. After my own children were born, I began to explore the options for their education. My options were limited due to geographical location. For this reason I chose to homeschool. My children are well socialised and doing well in all areas of their education. Best of all they learn in a safe and happy environment. No bullying occurs! When I later moved to Melbourne with all the educational options, I felt no need to change a process that was and is working so well. Homeschool is not the answer for all, but is a legitimate option that all parents should have access to if they so desire.

TonyC - My ‘agenda’ is that I want all children, not just mine, to have access to good education. Whatever method works is fine.

I was referring to your statement “Literacy levels actually went down after the introduction of mass education, and have been on the decline ever since.” This is contrary to what I understand from a variety of sources although I admit, I am no expert. I am not at all convinced that fewer people can read or write now than 200 years ago, here or anywhere else. If this is a ‘common misconception’ then surely we shouldn’t be leaving education to uninformed parents such as myself:). Maybe you could provide a reference.

Nowadays, in Australia, all children have the opportunity to complete high school, and the majority do, and more than ever go on to tertiary education. Anyone now has the opportunity to do pretty much whatever they please. This is a far cry from how things used to be.

Nicola’s comment about decline in language made me wonder if you were referring to complexity and poetry of language rather than the ability to read and write? Our language evolves with the need for clarity and simplicity in a global, communicative and technology-based world. I have noticed that it is common in Britain for words to be used somewhat playfully as Shakespeare did. I haven’t noticed this nearly so much in Australia or America. Maybe this has to do with the greater mix of languages spoken so that the intricacies are sometimes lost in translation and the English language is becoming more ‘globalised’. Off the point I know but quite interesting anyhow.

Shakespeare appealed to the masses because it was performed in a theatre and used language and humour appropriate to the time and place. It wasn’t necessary to be able to read to enjoy his work.

I was a scientist for many years and am thereby conditioned to be objective. This is not vehemence as some seem to think – just healthy discussion. That is the nature of OLO

ANaturalLearner – sorry, I didn’t put it very well. My comment was meant to refer only to public education and wasn’t directed specifically at homeschoolers. Unfortunately, I had to wait 24 hours to correct it. I didn’t want to suggest that people do not have other community concerns as I know that many do. My point was that those without a direct interest in public education aren’t likely to become involved.

A number of people have been understandably harsh in their response to my arguments but I respect and appreciate their views and I hope that this is reciprocated. Excellent points were made by Nicola, eco, anaturallearner, Jolanda, Susie Blackmore and titaniak that were informative and insightful.

Anyone who cannot understand the purpose, method and benefits of debate or appreciate that others may have a different point of view really should not be educating children - anywhere. Objectivity and openness to criticism are important in any discussion and are essential to ensure integrity and validity in science. They have been seriously lacking in this forum. It is nothing to do with entertainment, nor is it an attitude problem.

Jolanda - the comment that you quoted from my post was followed by: “This issue is important and must be publicised more. Hopefully we have raised awareness of both bullying and the options that are available.” Please do not misquote me by omission – there are already plenty doing that and I had up to now been impressed with your intelligent posts.

I can just imagine the level of debating that must go on in homeschooling groups if this discussion is anything to go by. If you only want feedback that reinforces your views then I suggest you try a different forum.

I have said just about everything I want to more than once so please do not direct any more questions my way

Hello Sajo (and all),
Strangely enough I hit this forum for the same reason – seemed like an opportunity to create a little debate where there isn’t. A bit too much ‘back patting’ & too little information is on offer for true expansion of this topic. I want to know exactly how the various proponents of Home Ed do it – few are telling!
The picture I’m receiving is one of a ‘crossover’ between public & private ed, where the parent(s) take full & detailed responsibility for their kids ed. The parent is the ‘principal’. When one takes into account the communication possibilities offered by the internet, home ed is quite feasible. But for most, not yet.
I have assumed ‘the teacher’ role in home ed to be primarily held by the parent – this appears to be, anecdotally, not the case. But simple fears still remain. The parent is not ‘at arms length’ when judging the performance of the child overall. The child will also be denied academic ‘competition’ as offered by mass education. The child will also be denied the opportunity to experience, largely, the challenges offered where one mixes daily with hundreds of other kids.
Would it not simply be a better thing if we had a school system that did the right things? I have faith that enough noise in the right way can change what is obviously a troubled school system, a system that most kids have contact with. I also think that the proponents of home ed sometimes take the easy way out.
A good start would be an independent, formal ‘home ed’ co-operative – it could simultaneously benefit the participants & create a ‘noise’ noticed by government etc.

Swilkie, I applaud your bravery. Once more you have decided to comment unencumbered by any facts or knowledge of the subject whatsoever.
Diversity in education does appear to be an anathema to you, but perhaps you need to make your intolerance less obvious. Then someone may take your desire for debate seriously.

Swilkie, if you had done any research into the subject at all, or even if you had read previous posts properly, your questions would have already been answered.

You would realise that home educators do not desire to recreate a school environment within their homes. They believe that education should be viewed holistically and not just as something that is ladled out in institutions such as schools. Therefore, the parent is not the principal, nor do they desire to rate or standardise their children’s education in relation to others. However if you do any reading you will discover that generally home educated children out perform their schooled peers in standardised tests.

Home educators are already formed into large organised groups, again if you do some research you will discover this for your self. In America the groups are often highly political and have become so large that home education is accepted in the mainstream as a viable education alternative. In Australia we have large groups such as HEA who are very active and provide many services for their members nationwide. There are also large groups within each state who are also highly active and do consult with government over issues that pertain to them.

There has been much independent research done in the area of home education. If you just spend time looking it up, you may be a little more informed and a little less judgemental

Sajo. I am sorry if my comment disturbed you. My comment about your comment was not meant to imply that you were against homeschooling as an alternative. It was only meant to show, that there are those who believe that if there isn’t some controversy being discussed or happening that things become boring, and that it doesn’t help the situation, and they are quite prepared to consciously antagonize if they feel that the purpose warrants it or even just for fun. Regardless of how it affects those involved.

I have a different attitude. I think that whilst parent groups are arguing about who and what is better etc., our Government has succeeded in dividing the groups. When the groups are divided they are much less of a threat to our Government than if they combine!.

I believe that showing support and understanding, sharing ideas and yes even “patting each other on the back” is more of a threat to our Government than all of us fighting against each other about who is better and who is right.

I believe homeschoolers do their bit to show their disappointment in the system by removing their children. If all families kept their children home, the Government would have to do something! You cannot ask homeschoolers to do any more than what they already are as they have lives to lead, children to educate, and other issues in their life.

The majority of people are in the Public Schools. The are the ones that need to get off their butt and do something about the system, but they are too scared because the system is controlled by bullies and if you speak up you know that your children will suffer – the system has your children’s psychological, emotional, educational and career future in their hands and they can pull any string they like.

Nobody should have that much power – especially without supervision, question or challenge!

It seems we're getting further away from the original article which was about bullying in schools and how "Home education can help prevent bullying", to questioning home education itself.

Home education exists, in many forms, from natural learning to formal methods, like it or not. All of it works. If you love your children and want the best for them and their future, you are going to succeed with it for you'll do your darndest to provide them with what they need to flourish. My children did not flourish at school, no matter what I did there as a parent.

When I first went into this, high school subject levels at home seemed daunting. I decided that for anything I couldn’t help them with or didn’t have the skills in, I would find somebody who did. It turned out that I haven’t needed to call in many others at all. This could all change tomorrow if one of them wants to learn advanced physics, and that flexibility is just one plus of home education.

‘Nuff said on that…

Saw the following on the web this morning, attributed to Roger Schank, Chief learning officer of Trump University, which seems quite relevant at this point:

Quote:
School is bad for children

Schools are structured today in much the same way as they have been
for hundreds of years. Schools should simply cease to exist as we
know them.

The Government needs to get out of the education business and stop
thinking it knows what children should know and then testing them
constantly to see if they regurgitate whatever they have been spoon-
fed.

We need to stop producing a nation of stressed-out students who
learn how to please the teacher instead of pleasing themselves.

We need to produce adults who love learning, not adults who avoid
all learning because it reminds them of the horrors of school.

We need to stop thinking that all children need to learn the same
stuff. We need to create adults who can think for themselves.

Call school off. Turn them into apartments.
Unquote

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/01/03/wedge03.xml&DCMP=EMC-new_03012006

Eco. Home education does not help prevent bullying. What it does is it helps protect the students that are able to be homeschooled, from being bullied. Those that haven't got the homeschooling option remain targets.

If the bullies were made to be homeschooled and the parents were required to deal with their own children's behaviour, with help and support, then it would help 'prevent' bullying.

I don’t think its fair to say that schools, per say, are for bad children. It’s the adults that are the ones that are behaving badly not the children because the adults should be disciplining the children, supporting them and providing a safe, caring and appropriate learning environment for them to develop.

It’s not the children’s fault. What can they do? In school children are not valued as individuals and nobody is required to listen to the children or to acknowledge or consider their feelings, personality and needs!

Very interesting quote eco. There has been a lot of comments coming out of universities about how schools are failing. School in its current form would indeed appear to be bad for children. Literacy and numeracy are both in decline, and bullying is on the rise.

Unfortunately the idea of school is so ingrained in the psyche of the populace that many have difficulty in seeing that there are different ways to educate. Regrettably school has done such a good job at institutionalising most people, few are able to see that as an educational system it is; inefficient, antiquated and fundamentally flawed.

Hi Lyn,

Thanks for the comment. The letter was from the Office of the Minister for Education, Science & Training, that is, Hon. Brendan Nelson. As such it was written on behalf of your Commonwealth education minister and representative.

I've just added a links guide to tertiary pathways for homeschool students.

regards
Rosie
www.rosiereal.blogspot.com

Hi, I'm another home educator. I am also an education professional with a Masters in Education, and feel I have sufficient experience both in and outside of the school environment to recognise the issues on both sides of this discussion.

I wanted to address a couple of issues I have seen raised.

Some stated bullying often originates in the home, rather than in the schools. I agree, but would suggest schools offer an opportunity for students who have not learned bullying skills at home, to learn them in the school environment from their friends, without sufficient guidance and intervention from overtaxed teachers. For those who have come to school with bullying skills already learned, schools provide an excellent environment for honing those skills. There are enough examples of workplace bullying in the media alone, to support the argument that schools do nothing to re-educate children with regard to positive social interactions. In fact, schools have few resources for such re-educate and struggle to minimize the incidents of bullying, let alone re-educate the offenders/victims (with children usually being both simultaneously)...

The second issue is the right of parents to withdraw their children from a toxic environment where the bullying is occurring - for the sake of this argument, that would be in schools. As things stand in Australia, parents in most states do not have the right to simply remove their child/ren from school if they feel the child is not being protected. In most states, parents must first seek permission to home educate, or otherwise be fined. They must seek permission from the very body whose job it is to advocate for schools. Education departments and staff cannot be deemed unbiased, when they very existence is dependant on the existence of Government schools, and therefore giving permission to parents to withdraw their children actually threatens their existence.

While parents must seek permission to withdraw their child from a situation dangerous to their (physical, emotional, or psychological) health, while they must WAIT until such approval has been given, children will continue to be damaged for life through school yard bullying.

TonyC
I thought, to be fair, as I asked you for a reference I should do the same.

This is a great resource for you homeschoolers who haven't come across it yet - a reputable and free peer-reviewed online encyclopaedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literacy#Literacy_history

states that
"in England in 1841, 33% of men and 44% of women signed marriage certificates with their mark as they were unable to write. Only in 1870 was government-financed public education made available in England."

and that according to the United Nations Development Programme Report 2005 the literacy rate in Australia, UK and most other developed countries was 99.9%. It is difficult to see how this could be any higher.

I do agree though that the standard of literacy has declined in recent years which I think has a lot to do with too much TV and not enough books.

Sajo, here goes my second post for the day :).

I wonder about 99.9% literacy in Australia. How are they defining literacy, do you think? I wonder about this, because, apparently according to Government studies up to 1/3 of Australian school leavers are "functionally illiterate" (meaning, they can read the words, but not comprehend the contextual meaning of the words they read). In this case, does being literate merely meaning the person can recite written words on a page, and reproduce them, that is really not the essence of literacy.

Hi Jolanda,

I don't know if you thought that was my quote about homeschooling preventing bullying - I was actually quoting the title of the original article we are all commenting on here!

And I presume you mean "are bad for children" instead of "I don’t think its fair to say that schools, per say, are for bad children", lol….! The "schools are bad for children" was the heading of the small article I posted, not my words. If it got down to it, I'd maybe have to say (and we have very limited space here to say anything much, with a limit on our number of posts as well, both frustrating aspects of this forum) that perhaps schools aren't all bad. I just don't think they're all that good either.

I'm not knocking teachers for a lot of them (not all) do as best a job they can in a tired, old, ineffective system. I know a fair amount of teachers and principals who agree with me.

I'm also not wishing to “stir” or spiral down into a argumentive discussion, however mild, about school versus home education – both exist and one has enormous problems, whether people see that or want to see it, or not, to the detriment of many children.

I simply quoted what Mr Schank apparently said (and I have looked up other things he has written about school education since – pretty damning actually!) because I thought he made some good and valid points about students regurgitating information for exams, the need to produce adults who love learning, to stop thinking that all children need to learn the same stuff and creating adults who can think for themselves. I will do some more searching and see what else he has said to say, and what he may be proposing as an alternative to school, for my own interest.

I agree with you, Jolanda, when you say it’s not the children’s fault. We adults have a responsibility to our children… and with that I’ve run out of space for further comments for a day or so….

Sajo you write a nicely phrased badly formed argument. As a ‘scientist’ I am sure you have come across terms such as logic, and reason. I would suggest that you apply them to your comments before you post, then perhaps you would not contradict yourself so frequently.

Your post yesterday seemed to indicate you would not be returning to the discussion, however it appears you cannot keep away. You seem to be putting an inordinate amount of time and effort into this discussion, as you are drawn back day after day, making ill concealed malicious remarks. Your accusations against other members of this discussion would be perhaps more applicable to yourself. The homeschoolers who have posted here have shown far more tolerance and patience for your views than you have for theirs.

I have been reading articles on Online Opinion for some time now, and I have never gained the impression that it is the intention of the architects of this forum, that people should post comments merely to provoke an argument, or to cause dissent. Nor would they approve of you suggesting to other members that they find another forum.

By the way, the wikipedia is not widely recognised as a reliable or substantial source of information.

Re Swilkie's question of whether it would not be better (than opting out of schooling) to do the right things and fix school.

Point 1: There is not consensus on what those 'right things' are. There is not unquestioned agreement that the competition offered by mass schooling is, indeed, necessary or desirable to educate a person.

Point 2: There is not across-the-board agreement about what is optimal, or even acceptable, in terms of opportunity to learn about oneself, others and the world. Mixing with hundreds of other kids every day is impossible, rather than optimal or sub-optimal (or detrimental). A child may be surrounded by hundreds of other students and have interactions with a small percentage of them, but s/he isn't mixing with them.

I'm assuming 'mixing' to mean exchanging something meaningful with them, or trying to. Watching hundreds of other kids, I'm not counting, although I imagine one could learn a lot that way.

Do children who do not go to school see many different ways of relating? Do they learn to assert themselves? Do they get opportunities to meet young people who do not fit their parents' idea of 'friend material'? Do they mix with children from socio-economic and cultural backgrounds/contexts different from their own? Do they have opportunities to learn to resolve conflict with peers and others?

It is possible for children who do not go to school to mix widely. I know this from ten years' experience of meeting such children, but had I not met them and instead put my imagination to the task, I could come up with ideas for children mixing with others and learning without attending school.

Carol

Hello again'
I'm looking for facts, I've read the posts. My last post placed my position. Its not harsh, just questioning. You guys are right I know nothing of home ed, & neither does most of Oz Society. Hit me with some facts & or stats - I now have a general picture of the home ed scene.
I'm not criticising, I may wish to adopt the use of home ed for my own use- as I've said, it sounds viable. I could even support it politically. Not many are willing to give a detail of how they do it. Hit me with some details...

Sajo,

The English language is not used to the same effect as it once was, as mass education has reduced much of the population’s abilities to grasp and utilise the complexity of it. Both with the written and spoken word.
Mass production will always produce an inferior end product, and that is also true of mass education. The educational nutrients (so to speak) have been extracted from the education that is given in schools, and this has always been the case. Thus, the decline in standards.

Many educationalists reject the notion that literacy is a fixed, measurable competence, however your approach would appear to be a more technicist view. What I have been referring to is what is often called functional literacy.

Here are a few resources for you to look at if you are interested http://www.nea.gov/news/news04/ReadingAtRisk.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/24/AR2005122400701.html?nav=rss_education
http://www.abc.net.au/rn/talks/8.30/edurpt/estories/er301096.htm
There is also ‘Debating Literacy in Australia, History Lessons and Popular Fictions’. By B Green, J Hodges, and A Luke.

I make this post fully aware that I am wasting my time, as I do not believe you are truly interested in this subject. Merely you just appear to trying to amuse yourself by repeated attempts to provoke.

To disagree for the sake of disagreeing is not a debate

Swilkie, the previous posts on this discussion have much of the information you seek. People have provided details, facts and statistics, all you need to do is read. However if you do honestly seek more information, I would suggest you simply type ‘home education’ into a search engine.

To post or not to post? - that is the question. Either I cop abuse from Maya for actually showing some interest in this discussion (note that there are very few non-homeschoolers here at all) or I cop it from someone else and am unable to defend myself. Maya - have you made a single real contribution? So far it seems you have only posted to abuse me. Have you actually read my posts? There was no malicious intent at all. I was hoping for some actual discussion rather than ‘back-patting’ as it has been referred to which is why so many questions. I do have a genuine interest in the topic otherwise I would not be bothering. Swilkie – you are brave – surely you noticed the malice in some of the responses to even my most complimentary comments.

There have been so many contradictions about how homeschooling works that it is difficult to tell from the posts what it involves. It seems that some follow published curricula and some don’t, some believe you need expert help and others think you should sit back and leave the children to it. In other words there are lots of different approaches.

The reasons for homeschooling are also varied. Some have stated specific reasons for homeschooling such as flexibility, bullying or gifted or special ed which I can accept. Others seem to have based their decisions on very inaccurate and unfair opinions about schools and schoolchildren which is a point I have argued about as it is a slight on my own children,friends and choices.

The only answer I can really deduce is that the homeschooling community is very angry about something (presumably the Victorian Government) to be so defensive, as my views are far from hostile to homeschooling and really not all that important anyhow.

TonyC - Actually I am very interested in the whole literacy thing. I think we were both right as we were talking about different things. Thanks for the references.

This began as a very interesting discussion on bullying and how Home Schooling was a option for those having this problem.
It has along the way become a discussion on schooling in general( state, private or alternate )and in particular it seems that it is now becoming an argument about who is Right, those who keep their kids in school or those who keep them out.
There should be no argument here, Childrens Rights are at the forefront of this topic. The government is changing Australia underneath our noses, with the new IR laws and now possibly a new education law and i hear talk of them considering complusory national service again.What is happening people is they are stealing our rights and freedoms.
We need to band together as parents and stop them affecting our children regardless of which choice of education you use. Become a united australia, everyone will Always educate differently,no one way is right for all,but democaracy and choice is the backbone of australia.
Lets just be parents who want the best for our children, stand together and tell the government that choice and freedoms and differences are part of a healthy society. Everybody the same and everybody doing what the government demands starts to sound like a dictatorship not a democaracy. Don't argue or put each other down Join forces to make good changes. Lets make the government accountable. We all have to be accountable and resonsible for our actions,The government is no less accountable than each of us.

Maya. Don’t be so hard on sajo. Sajo comes across to me as a concerned parent, just like the rest of us. He just has his own ideas and thoughts and some interesting ways of presenting them. Everybody is different and we need communication otherwise people don’t change and/or learn.

There is one thing about dealing with school/bullying problems and/or homeschooling issues and that is that you cannot really appreciate or understand how it will make you feel, think or react until you are living it!.

Swilkie, I cant help you with the best way to homeschool because I have not been successful. I didn’t find it easy, you have to be dedicated and motivated and you have to enjoy it otherwise the kids notice! I didn’t enjoy it, and I have other responsibilities like running our small business from home and fighting the bullies in the DET.

Only the 8 year old is happy at home for now, the rest begged me to find a good school for them. They all have their own computers and each have cable online. I bought them the relevant books and I even paid for one hour of math’s tutoring – it wasn’t enough for them. I can’t keep up with them financially or other. My older kids prefer being bored at school and with their friends than bored at home with their siblings and mother.

Like adults, when kids get bored they start picking on and antagonizing each other, this is no doubt what is happening at school and that is why there is so much bullying happening.

Eco. Sorry. I did realise that it was articles that you were referring to. With the “bad children” comment. I have probably just been brainwashed by my 8 year old son who insists that all children at school are bad. I have to keep telling him that it’s not the children that are being born bad, it’s the adult’s responsibility, because children are learning and the adults should ensure that children are in an environment where they are learning good things not bad.

There is a broad range of ideas and methods in Home Education. I will outline a few different approaches for you to the best of my knowledge:

1. The ‘school’ approach at home: where a curriculum is (more or less) set based upon the 8 core areas and followed with only a few variations to fit in with the needs of the individual child. It offers more one on one attention than would be received at school, thus learning is much quicker, taking approx 2 hours a day and more ‘field trips’ for practical understanding of the topics they are studying. Usually plenty of extracurricular activities are involved for sporting and socialization aspects and plenty of reading and opportunities to expand on their knowledge are offered to use at their leisure. Often the problem with this approach is that the children can rebel against a parent taking on the ‘teacher’ role and it takes great levels of co operation between the parents and children to keep the momentum going. I have seen this work very effectively for some families; I have also seen many families opt for another learning style after finding this very high maintenance.

2. The ‘Un-schooling’ approach: the basic philosophy is that children are naturally inquisitive and seek out learning in the most appropriate way for themselves. It is believed that children will always learn what they need to learn in via exposure to the materials and given the opportunity to experience it first hand, seeking help when they desire it. Children are only taught information in an incidental sense and encouraged to take an active role in all aspects of ordinary life. Any questions they ask are answered, and questions are encouraged. Generally un-schooling families have fabulous conversational qualities with one another, chatting on a great range of subjects in a short space of time. The children always have access to learning opportunities, sporting opportunities and extracurricular activities, but these are used as the children see fit. Much time is devoted to any special interest and they learn through active involvement in these areas.

Often, community service is a large part of life and practical experience is vital to ensuring they can continue on with their interests. Commonly parents who adopt this method experience periods of concern over their child’s abilities as it is harder to see the results. In all cases I have seen the children excel, given the basic resources and autonomy, though at a different rate than their school counterparts. For example a child may choose not to learn to read till 8, but by the age 6 is doing ‘high school’ maths and geology. This ‘uneven’ education usually is equalized by the teen years, however they still retain their special interests which they are very adept at. Often this can be extremely helpful in choosing career paths and helping them to find rewarding life interests.

3. The ‘Middle of the Road’ approach is the one I have seen adopted by most home educators. It is very subjective, but includes a little of each of the above education styles. The parents generally ensure that the children learn the basics at an early age, but try to use their interests as catalysts in order to do so. The children are given a great level of control over their own education, as long as broad subject matter is covered and the children are progressing well. It is a blend of experiential and directed/paper based learning which has a little of the bonuses from both styles yet allowing flexibility in the learning environment. It allows the parents and children to feel comfortable about their education whilst having plenty of room to move and learn in a more practical sense.

I hope this helps to give you an overview of the styles I have seen in home education. The options I have put forward are very different, but the results are often very similar and in my experience, they all tend towards the un-schooling approach as the children get older. The result tends to be happy, well rounded individuals, capable of living in the real world and functioning as adults with defined interests and values.

It is interesting how the Federal Minister deals with different issues! When I wrote to the Minister in April 2003 in relation to allegations of educational neglect, victimization, bullying by way of humiliation, discrediting, marking down and exclusion, vilification, manipulation of test scores, misconduct and a conspiracy to cover up from the adults in power in the State Education system I received a reply from an adviser called Alan Tudge.

The letter included the following:

“I must say that, while I am not in a position to comment authoritatively on the matter, the procedures for calculating admission scores appear to be complex, so much so that in the case of both your children scores were apparently incorrectly calculated by officers of the NSW Selective Schools unit and subsequently corrected”. (my comment – or vice versa!).

Mr. Tudge indicated that he sent a copy of my letter to State Shadow Education Minister Mr. O’Farrell, I had also written to Mr. O’Farrell and he had advised that he would look into it and get back to me. I heard nothing. My correspondence and calls were ignored.

Then Ministers changed and when I contacted the new Shadow Ministers they all said the same thing. That they had been advised that the issues had been addressed and the matter had been deemed closed. When I advised them that the matter was closed internally and unfairly by those that we alleged were responsible and it was a conflict of duties/interests and that we had been denied procedural fairness the Ministers informed us that the matter was outside their jurisdiction and they did not have enough resources or funding to investigate individual cases!.

How can the safety, welfare and wellbeing of individual children in education be outside the jurisdiction of Ministers for Education? It begs the question – “What exactly is their role?”

The letter ended with “On behalf of the Minister, I take this opportunity to wish your children all the best in their schooling and trust that they will be given the opportunities they deserve to develop their talents to the fullest”. Cont……

There are many reasons parents choose to home educate and many methods by which they do it - that is the whole beauty of it. What is it that really suits your child? Are they academic or of a practical bent, slow or quick, have learning disabilities or gifted - all of these can be catered for with fair to excellent resources available to suit any budget (for those who feel that it is a priviledge only the rich can afford, we are a single income family with eight children). For one child I am the "teacher", for another I am a "guide" as they learn quickly, for another I am a "companion" as we explore subjects which he is interested in but fall outside of a "curriculum", and we learn together.

And the end result? Well-adjusted, educated children able to talk to anyone of any age. Nor are my five boys emasculated in a female-oriented environment.

I think the boredom factor is a major cause of bullying and trouble-making in general. My experience is that bullies are quite often the really clever ones who are lacking in mental stimulation as well as empathy. I would love to see schools pay more attention to individual talents or interests and try to divert children’s energies into something more productive and stimulating. It would be more effective than putting bullies in detention where they become even more bored and frustrated.

Other children just need to get rid of some physical energy. I have been continuously amazed by teachers who complain about children who won’t sit still then spend all of break times telling them not to run! Children, especially boys and particularly those with ADHD, need physical exercise by the bucket load to be able to concentrate in class. Why they don’t just start each school day making them all run around the oval or do aerobics is beyond me. I am convinced that schools need a few punchbags and basketball hoops just as much as they need new computers!

There will still be a few bullies who are just plain thugs who should be separated from their mates in special classes or even separate schools under strict discipline.

Unfortunately, I think it will take more than this to solve the systematic problems that Jolanda has encountered. I am not sure what the answer is here apart from persistence and hoping that one day someone useful will answer the phone. I have had similar problems dealing with DIMIA (Immigration Dept.) – no-one has any accountability and they always seem to be on holiday! However, it only took the media to expose a few major blunders by DIMIA to get them to admit incompetence and promise changes – whether it makes any difference remains to be seen.

ps. I am a she not a he – not that it matters.

My conclusions on this topic-
Home schooling is in its infancy, although it is much more widespread a practice in the western world than I previously thought.
It has grown out of dissatisfaction, one way or another, with our conventional public school system. Most proponents (concerned parents), at this stage, are ‘reactionary’, having removed their child from the PS system as an act of last resort. Few seemed to have planned the use of Home Ed from pre education (this is not a criticism). This can be seen in the ‘fractured’ nature of home ed.
It is the responsibility of the government to supply adequate funding & staffing to deal with the ‘problems’ that drive people from public education. As mentioned above incapacity to deal with ‘fringe’ problems may be sourced to inadequate funding & staffing of our PS system. It is a flow on from the economic rationalism of our western materialist age.
Home Ed will be growing phenomena & for this reason it needs all the support it can get. Government needs to take it seriously. It will be much more expensive to support home ed correctly than to fix public ed.
Networking is crucial for the participants at this stage, as are support groups.
It is a highly political topic, where most of the direct participants are not particularly political. This is totally understandable & in no way a criticism of those doing the best for their kids..
I will support home ed thru the Humanist Movement, who are currently setting up a ‘Centre of Cultures’ in Sydney, modelled on similar ventures in NY & other. Links

http://www.humanisten.ch/hi/front/index.php?lang=en

http://www.humanistparty.org.uk/links.htm

http://centerofcultures.info/pMachine/weblog.php

http://www.humanistmovement.org/

Swilkie, your conclusions about home education leave a lot to be desired.

1. Home education is NOT in its infancy, home education predates formal mass education, which is barely 100 years old.

2. A very large number of home educators decide to home educate BEFORE their children reach school age (I am such a parent, my eldest was 6 months old when we decided we would prefer to home educate him).

3. There are many non-reactionary reasons for home educating (you would see the reactionary reason in this thread because this thread is about a problem in schools, bullying, however, there is much more to home educating than described in this thread alone. In our case, we home educate because children learn most readily in the company of people they love and respect, and because much time is wasted in school rooms, whereas at home our children can learn at their pace without the distraction of 25 (at least) other children's need for attention. At home they can learn from relevant life activities instead of from discussion of life occurring OUTSIDE the classroom. Our reasons for home educating our children are not reactionary but rather seeing "a better way" than formal mass education, we are part of the large contingent of home educators who view mass education (mass production) as resulting in compromise for the vast majority.

Please don't be to quick in drawing your conclusions about home education from this discussion alone. What you call "fragmented" is the strength in home educating, the ultimate virtue of home education is "choice", the ability to do it "your way" with no compromise!

Even if all the "problems" in mass education were ironed out (an impossibility, by the way), I would still home educate, as would many home educators I know - it's about ideology, not dissatisfaction for many of us.

Swilkie,

Thank you for taking the time to try to understand home ed. I appreciate your support and willingness to listen. I think you need to realise though, that the vast majority of home educators are not 'reactionary' and rather plan this course of action since pre school. Most parents I know who home educate (more than 70%) have been on this course since their children were infants and have never had their children enrolled in schools. I also am seeing a greater number opt out of the school system, but as yet, this has not been a higher percentage than those who make the choice prior to age 6. Having said that, I am speaking purely of the home edders I know.

The reason that I believe the balance is swayed in this forum is just that many who have been in the school system, have had a more difficult time and tend to be a bit more vocal. I for one, have never enrolled my children in school and the trend to do so is quite strong. The home ed group we belong to has more 0-6's than school aged kids and at least 70% of the enquiries I am currently getting are from Mums of pre schoolers not wanting to put their kids in school, the other 30% are from parents at their wits end on how to help their kids in schools.

I would like to see changes happen in schools as my daughter from my first marriage would benefit greatly from an overhaul of the system and I would support any such change. I just can't see any way to improve it enough to make it a viable alternative to home ed.

Sajo. I had to laugh about your comment about bureaucrats always being on holidays. I have actually worked out why that is!

What happens is that when you make a complaint etc, against a bureaucrat or public servant the relevant Department/person etc, is required to provide a report on the matter detailing their version or tale. They have that right! Then they are sent on “Holidays” probably on stress leave and at our expense, so that the person who is looking into the matter only has the report to rely on. You can’t ask a report any questions!

Because bureaucrats have great faith in their fellow public servants and they are by law innocent until proven guilty, those looking into the matter are required to believe the report on face value. Of course the report is a tale presented by those responsible and it usually is a total misrepresentation of the facts that discredits the complainant and justifies any action that was taken.

It’s the process that they use to deal with issues so as to ensure that those responsible always get the last word and that they cover everything up. Then of course they refer to the matter as being investigated. It’s all a process that has been designed to protect the reputation of those in power and of public servants.

Then any correspondence to the complaintant in relation to the matter starts with I have been advised, or it is my understanding.

Sorry about referring to you as a he and not a she. It was your name that did it and the fact that you didn’t say anything.

Thanks to Gen and SamA for providing balanced information to those of us who are genuinely interested. Some have seen our questions as some sort of attack on the system which is a shame. It is quite understandable that those of us without knowledge should want to know more and are likely to make some inaccurate guesses in our quest.

Homeschoolers were in a wonderful position in this forum to help 'educate'. Some have been very helpful and understood that we want to know the disavantages as well as the positives. I think I am a bit more enlightened as to how homeschooling works and the kinds of motivations behind it. Probably enough to investigate it further as a possibility for my children although I am passionate about the need for good public schooling so am not really ready to desert them yet. It is a shame it is not possible to combine the two somehow - more parental involvement in the curriculum and school management and better accountability for individual teachers could be a good compromise for a lot of people.

Some people have basically told us to go away and mind our own business which kind of puts me off a bit. This sort of attitude does nothing to alter the misguided opinion that homeschooled children are overprotected and isolated from society. Until homeschooling becomes far more common all those associated with it should realise that they are ambassadors for the movement and as such must be both welcoming and respectful of others and accept that their views will be challenged from time to time. The ones who challenge you the most are those who are most interested in what you have to say.

Thanks

Sarah

Continued.....I wrote again to Brendon Nelson last year May 2005 as, because of lack of action and care and failure to protect my children, even my younger children were also now being systemically neglected, targeted, bullied and victimised.

I don’t know who the Minister for Education was trusting to do the right thing by my children when they were not prepared to?

I received a response in June/July 2005 that said.

Thank you for your letter of 9th May 2005 to the Hon Dr Brendon Nelson, Minister for Education, Science and Training, seeking his assistance in bringing your allegations against the NSW Department of Education and Training out into the open and having them investigated. The Minister has asked me to reply on his behalf.

I note your previous correspondence and the matters brought before the Minister in your recent letter. While the Minister is sympathetic towards your feelings of dissatisfaction and disappointment about your children's experiences in schools in New South Wales, he is unable to directly intervene in matters which fall within the responsibility of the NSW Minister for Education, the Hon Carmel Tebbutt MP

I have written to the NSW Minister's Chief of Staff to request an explanation concerning the procedures adopted to address the issues you have raised, and to see if there are any further avenues available to investigate your claims. I will write to you again once I have received a reply from the NSW Ministers Office.

It is now 13 January 2006 – I am yet to receive a reply. Through lack of action by adults, children are being permitted to be exposed to neglect, victimization and bullying - without protection!

If the system doesn’t deal with the bullies within their ranks in order to protect the children, what hope is there to change the culture of bullying in schools? Children learn by example!

What right does an Education system have of dictating to parents about their children’s education when they do not have to protect or take any responsibility in relation to the needs of individual children in education?

Sajo, you interest is wonderful.

I don't think it is at all surprising many homeschoolers react to queries about homeschooling slightly defensively. At the moment, in Victoria, a perfectly well working legislative process for homeschooling is being threatened by restrictive legislation which will mean parents are no longer able to simply decide to homeschool, but will become legally obliged to apply for the right to homeschool and submit to, as yet unstated, requirements of "the Authority", which may well dictate what and when children should learn, defeating the purpose of home educating for many families.

As things stand in Victoria, if you choose to home educate your children, it is not necessary to register with any department or ask anyone's by or leave. If your child is already in school, all you need do is write a letter to the principal at the school stating your intention to withdraw the child.

New proposed legislation threatens to encroach on these freedoms, no longer allowing parents autocracy in choosing the best educational process for their child. This, as you might understand, upsets most home educators as we have, very responsibly and successfully, managed our children's education to this point, and find it offensive that the Government feels it is necessary to assess our eligibility and monitor our progress in educating our children - especially as they seem inable to manage their own publicly funded schools with much competence (that is my opinion, I do not speak for all home educators).

As to the disadvantages of home educating. I can see no educational disadvantages as home educated children have access to all the resources mass schooled children tap into. The only disadvantage I have experienced, personally, is changing my own expectation of "free time" away from the children during the day - much of my day IS spent with my children, and I have had to work through the expectation of having a lot of free adult only time.

Good work, Jolanda!
Life learner (& others) - The presentation of my posts may be challenging. This is intentional as I do not know a more effective way of creating debate where there is little. Debate is vital for the unearthing of facts & opinion. The name & intention of this site? A few of those posting here claim all the facts are readily available. As an outsider, I disagree. That's why I'm probing.
I'm fully aware of the history of education. Without consulting statistics (because I don't have a great deal of faith in modern stats), I will assume home ed is a growing practice & its growth is directly related to declining funding & staffing of our public schools. Call it 'post-industrial' or 'new' home ed - it has little in common with pre 20th century education.
There must be a considerable number of home educators who 'test the waters' of public ed & react to the problems presented to them. Congratulations for the forethough to those who have used home ed intentionally from pre ed.
This raises the obvious questions - are there two distinct groups of home educators? Do they have different needs & intentions & connect with different govt & social bodies?
Sajo - well said!

I cannot understand why the Victorian government wants to change something that works well. Perhaps it is too easy for parents to use homeschooling as an excuse for truanting but aren’t actually homeschooling or maybe children are being abused or neglected by parents who want to hide this from authorities. I believe that NSW already requires registration to homeschool. Personally I can see no problem with this so long as the requirements aren’t too restrictive. Some children really do need to be protected from their parents.

The main reason I would consider homeschooling is that my children are wasting a lot of time doing work well below their level. I am assured that this will improve in year 3 when the children are grouped according to ability – time will tell! In the meantime I just give them lots of activities and access to books etc. at home – a sort of part-time homeschooling. If I did homeschool it is a concern that new legislation might require me to teach the normal curriculum which would completely defeat the purpose.

I also have to consider the positive aspects of school that I would have to compensate for – not least the fact that they love it. I am probably as able as anyone to cope with the challenge. However, as my youngest is about to start Kindergarten I can’t help but notice how much I am looking forward to a bit of freedom and possibilities of a career. A depressed mother is the last thing children need on a full-time basis!

Celia – I am so impressed that you are able to home-educate eight children – superwoman or what? Almost a 'school' of your own!

One thing I wanted to know - in NSW it seems that you have to be enrolled at school in order to take the school certificate or HSC - is this right and how do you get around it? Also is it possible to do the International Baccalaureate by home-ed?

Sajo. I think that you are right, there has to be a reason for the change and it might be because there are parents and schools who are allowing children, or turning a blind eye to children not going to school, often for different reasons. If there is no organized system to monitor this, the parent, or school, can just indicate or assume that the student is being homeschooled - in order for the matter to be left alone!! This allows for children to be roaming the streets without question or challenge and that usually leads to no good.

In NSW you might need registration to homeschool but it isn’t enforced. I pulled my children out of school many a time and just said I was homeschooling. I didn’t register or put anything in writing. I waited for the authorities to come to my home, I wanted them to come to my home and hear why my children were not at school and I wanted them to support and help them! I wanted my children’s issue to come before a different Department of the Education System so that they would be forced to deal with what was happening to my children and family in school. I heard nothing!.

The way it is now too many children are allowed to be neglected and “put in the cracks” because there is no supervision, control or discipline. There needs to be some sort of supervision, not just of homeschoolers but of schools, because the adults on this forum are representing those that are motivated and dedicated and do the right thing by the children, not all adults do.

There needs to be a system in place, however controlling the lives of those that are motivated and dedicated is not necessary – the system should be able to differentiate. But then again, that is a major problem with the system. They keep telling us that we are all different yet they insist that to be ‘fair’ we have to all be treated and taught the same. I cant help but wonder “Fair to whom?”.

The thing is, no system of registration is going to stop parents neglecting their children. Children in schools are neglected all the time In fact, when you hear about children living in appalling conditions and being mistreated, you never hear that those children were homeschooled, therefore you are left to assume they were actually sent to school, but the neglect or abuse was not detected.

Many school aged students are truant in states where there are rather restricive homeschooling laws (such as QLD) - obliging parents to apply for permission to homeschool, and be registered and assessed up to twice a year has not stopped or reduced the rate of truancy.

Having home educating parents jump through hoops will not impact on child neglect or abuse because the department is only responsible for ensuring education is occurring, but it is quite easy for parents "fake" this - just as some parents will do homework assignments for their mass educated children. If the departments cannot ensure education is occorring within their own schools, how are they to ensure this in people's private homes?

So, basically, making registration obligatory, and for parents to apply for the right to educate their child, is both a futile waste of department resources, and an unneccessary penalty for the vast majority of caring and motivated home educators who just wish to get on with the job without Big Brother supervision.

Oh dear Sajo. I truly hope that your children will be luckier than mine in the system. My children’s issues peaked at Year 3. By year 3 my daughter was suffering a severe depression due to the negative attitude towards her, her treatment and the neglect of her education.

Because the school went on the defensive and attack when we brought up issues, the way the school handled the matter caused my daughter to worry and stress and to suffer serious psychological, emotional and physical issues. Doctors thought she had rheumatoid arthritis. It was later found to be a condition triggered by stress and anxiety that affected her joints and muscles. My children are all sensitive and they worry.

Year 3 is the year when the schools expect the rest of the Year 3 to have caught up to advanced kids, as the advanced kids haven’t been allowed to progress in school. They blame the parents if the kids are still advanced beyond their Year and accuse parents of hot-housing or pushing their child and causing the problems. If the children haven’t’ conformed by Year 3 and, if you happen to say anything, things get hostile. Well at least they did for my family.

My children were never happy at school with their work, but generally they did enjoy being with their friends. How their year went depended entirely on how nice their teacher was. Some years were a nightmare and they had so much time off school.

My children were obvious intellectually gifted children and often the schools resent those that don’t fit. The teachers used to say that when they got to Opportunity Class and Selective Schools things would be better. However when the time came for my children to be offered places in Opportunity Class and Selective Schools they were refused a place and they even lost their appeals despite the fact that they were obvious identified gifted students and the system had been incapable of meeting their needs and had neglected their educational needs for years causing serious problems.. cont…….

Dear Scout You say your sister doesn't have an extensive education herself - that's an advantage in home schooling. You learn along with your child, doing it together is a much more satisfying way of learning. In fact the child will teach the parent. If both of you don't know something you go out together to find it. Having an extensive education may even be a disadvantage - you're liable to keep supplying answers and telling the child what to do.

Cont… Just a word of advice, don’t trust the system with your children or with their marks! Humans are running the system and humans are capable of anything.

I wrote to the Ombudsman Child Protection Section asking for an investigation into allegations of systemic victimization, bullying, educational neglect and child abuse causing psychological, emotional and physical harm to my children.

I had also asked for an investigation into allegations of misconduct, discrimination, bias, manipulation of test scores and corruption by the Education Department.

The Ombudsman just accepted the word of those responsible and decided not to investigate, so I wrote again and asked for our right for a review of the decisions not to investigate the matters.

The Ombudsman, Mr. Bruce Barbour himself, responded in parts with this:

“You state that you were concerned that Ms Ovenden did not contact you, nor give you an opportunity to discuss the matter or your concerns before she made her decision on your complaint. First of all I would confirm that we expect complainants to lay all their cards on the table at the outset so we can assess their cases in the knowledge that all information available to them is available to us. Your complaint that the actions of the Department of Education amount to neglect of your children does not come within the definition of child abuse as provided by the legislation. Neglect is defined, in keeping with NSW Interagency Guidelines for Child Protection Intervention, as “the failure to provide the basic physical and emotional necessities of life”, for example the failure to provide adequate food, shelter, medical care or supervision. As it is abundantly clear that your complaint does not involve conduct amounting to neglect, there was no reason for Ms Ovenden to contact you. The matters you have raised, simply put, do not constitute child abuse as defined in the relevant legislation.

It is my view that further examination of your complaint is not warranted. I am satisfied that the administrative processes of the DET in relation to the educational opportunities provided to your children have been appropriate. Cont……

Hi everyone,
I have been following this forum for a while now and it is getting tedious. Some people seem to genuinely want to discuss bullying, many are discussing the merits or otherwise of home education, and some are discussing the problems in schools.

If someone wants to know details about and the practical application of home ed theory why don’t they do what the rest of us do? Go and make the effort to find out! Read papers, magazines and books; talk to people and go to meetings or gatherings; research at the library and on the net. To do any less is lazy and ignorant. (Sorry if you are offended. I get offended when others try to solve my occasional problems, no matter what they are; health, financial, time, and personal; by suggesting the children should be in school! As if that would solve all life’s problems; I wish!)

By trying to ‘understand’ all about home ed just by discussions on this forum, you are limiting yourself as much as if you were to read one book on Australian History and then consider yourself an expert. Just like the problems in our various institutions, there is no one answer. Our schools, jails or hospitals are not going to be fixed by one solution. If only life were that simple.

I have heard that Australians do not like to debate, that we take discussions too personally. I think they are right. Can we try and discuss the topic, either bullying or the right to home educate beyond the present Victorian state government, and not each other?

Hello Jolanda,
I’m not surprised by the response you received from Bruce Barbour. It seems the attitude he professes is endemic within the ‘social services’ (DOCS, the dept of Juvenile justice & the NSW dept of education ). A ‘crime’ needs to be committed before action can be taken.
I don’t know what has happened to the concept of ‘Professional responsibility’ in Australia, if it has indeed, ever existed. An anecdote- A troubled, teenage relative of mine hasn’t had a stable education for several years (not caused by bullying). At one point had the habit of simply not attending. Her mother knew nothing of this until assessment time at the end of the year. When confronted the school principal claimed that it ‘wasn’t his problem’! As far as I can understand this amounts to professional misconduct, I don’t think I need to explain why. There is a legal responsibility that all professionals take ‘duty of care’ – not many do & there is almost no avenue to prosecution.
The base of the problem, in my opinion, is one affecting all of western society. ‘User pays’, economic rationalism, capitalism – call it what you will. Our ‘government’ (labour or Lib) ultimately ’resents’ having to spend money on something they see as not being their responsibility. Hence serious underfinancing & understaffing of vital institutions such as public ed.
A little out of context, but while the world bank & IMF continue to demand that we run this place like a business, and while the OZ govt of the day continues to grovel to greater economic powers, we will continue to treat the symptoms, not the cause.

It is a good subject to discuss, In one direction home Education can be a great experience for Kids and Parents –thus avoiding the obstructions posted in society today, then on the other hand, the children do not have that same learning experience when they interact with other children and learn communication skills .
Personally, a bit of both would be beneficial if it was possible, if only due to the falling standards and deterioration of our institutions (Not intentional Politicization) but an issue that will not be going anywhere, and for that reason my kids would be best served in home Education and tutored in the subjects at hand, understanding kids have different academic levels of achievement variations, some early some late.
As a parent it is our choice – what we consider to be in the interest of our children, now days, that is not easy, but to teach them the main lesson of life is to never submit but expand and work even harder to achieve.
After all, a bird when it hatches from its Egg can not fly, and the bird’s parents do not pluck out its feathers then watch their young plunge to the ground, Animals do not remove their sibling’s knowledge on survival, they teach them, Mankind is a conscious Animal we somehow have disarmed that knowledge in children’s upbringing. There lay a problem.

Ombudsman, Mr Bruce Barbours, letter to me cont……As it appears that you are unwilling to accept any view that does not accord with your conclusions, I can see no value in providing further detailed responses for my decision.

In some circumstances, complainants to this office simply have to rely on the fact that an independent authority has made an accurate assessment of the matters complained of, has made diligent and full inquiries and reached its own decision on the merits of the complaint. Our role is to act in the public interest.

I believe that Mr. Morse has dealt with your complaint fairly and with all due attention. I confirm that I agree with his reasons for declining further investigation of that complaint, even after considering the further comments you have made and the documentation you have provided. I appreciate that you will be disappointed by my decision but I cannot assist you any further with this matter. I emphasise that my decision in this case is final”’

Of course the documents that we provided were documents produced under the FOI Act, and included an internal data file that they accidentally sent me. These documents clearly supported our allegations and showed an alarming amount of instances and entries that indicated bias against my family and many entries showing omissions, deletions, manipulation of test scores and tampering of documents.

The system believes it is not required by any relevant legislation to protect our children from being educationally neglected, victimized, targeted and/or bullied! However, surely permitting children, through of lack of action, to be systemically victimized, neglected and bullied constitutes a failure to provide adequate supervision and is therefore neglect! How can the protection and welfare of children not be in the Public interest!

The homeschooling option has to be a supported and respected option. It should be supported by all adults so that parents can take their children out of school to protect them if necessary. The relevant legislation is not required to protect the Children - its too busy protecting the bullies and criminals..

Something must be done to make governments more accountable for their actions (or non-actions). I despair with the bureaucracy in government where there is no effective method of complaint. As Jolanda said complaints are usually dealt with by those responsible for the problems.

In schools the private system is more accountable to parents and has the ability to pick and choose teachers and principals based on merit rather than a lottery system as in public schools. Private schools also have a Board of Directors or something similar who are personally liable if anything goes wrong. Few people realise that in some states (eg. NSW but not WA) school principals and teachers are PERSONALLY responsible under OHS laws for children’s safety and health. It is not just a part of the job description. I think if this was more widely known we wouldn’t have so many problems with teachers and principals ignoring bullying.

If a ‘private’ not-for-profit system where schools are independently managed was equally available to everyone, for example if government were to subsidise individuals for a reasonable and capped fee instead of the schools directly, then maybe we would see some improvements. A bit like bulk-billing for Medicare. I am sure there are lots of problems with this too but I think it could work. I will vote for anyone who can make it happen. I will also be keeping a close eye on anyone who wants to make the homeschooling option difficult. We must be able to take our children out of school quickly and easily even if only for a short time.

Jolanda – you have me worried. You are right about year 2 being when everyone else catches up while the bright kids just get bored. My daughter and others I know were put into a composite class in year 1 where they steamed ahead then the following year just did the same stuff again in a standard class! I was counting on year 3 to sort things out. I will know better in the next few weeks

Sajo believe it or not, I actually agree with your last post 100%!
Actually your last few posts have been very good, and I have had to revise my opinion entirely. Unfortunately a couple of your posts did touch a nerve, however I have very much enjoyed your recent comments, and have found some quite helpful.

Jolanda, like you my family has suffered at the hands of the school system. The racism that my children have had to suffer through has actually been worse than what I experienced 20 odd years ago when I was at school.

I am married to an Anglo Saxon Australian, and the amount of times I am referred to as a mail order bride is shocking, I was once asked if I was a mail order bride by my son’s teacher! (I was actually born here). My children are very gentle and quiet, and are often targeted by bullies (teachers, parents and children alike). Because of this their school work often suffers, we are then told our children should be good at school, because they are of Asian heritage!

This debate on homeschooling is the first glimmer of light I have had. This has been the first time I have known that it even exists in this country. I have since read much about it, and it may solve our problems, even if only for the short term.
Thankfully this option is there for families who schools have let down.

However schools should be improved. Maybe if everyone in every state sent their stories of how the school system has let them down to newspapers, Governments may start taking some notice

Thanks Maya. I have been fortunate not to have really experienced racism either for myself or for my friends who are not Anglo-Saxon or are in mixed marriages. I sometimes forget that it exists. I have however noticed a tendency for some people to accuse others of racism for no reason except that they do not agree with something – so you touched a nerve too! It is something that is very difficult to defend against and usually has the effect of halting communication. One of the things I do like about my children’s school is the mix of nationalities. I have friends from all over the world because of this.

My interest in this article comes mainly from my experience as an OHS consultant with workplace bullying. However, I have thought about homeschooling before and my interest was reignited.

I am glad that homeschooling is a possibility. However it is wrong if it becomes the only effective solution to serious bullying. It is no different from someone being forced out of a job because of harrassment. It cannot be allowed to continue.

Obviously there are lots of people who love homeschooling – more than I would have previously thought – but there are a large number for whom it just would not be either possible or desirable and they should not be forced into it. It is also important to assess the pros and cons before embarking on it. It has been great getting some feedback from actual homeschoolers rather relying on Departmental manuals!

It would be good if one of the major newspapers would take up the issue of accountability in schools – an improvement would help solve lots of issues including bullying, and not least the mass exodus to the private schools. I think that writing to one of the opinion writers or editor of a major newspaper might be worthwhile. In fact I shall do so.

Something needs to be done about the complaint handling systems!. They are designed to protect those in Power who are failing in their duty of care - not there victims!

I even took our complaint one step further and wrote to the Office of the Ombudsman & Police Integrity Commission about the way the Ombudsman had dealt with the complaint, as he took the word of those responsible on face value and refused to give me explanations for the questions brought up in our review request and for which we had documentary evidence to support. I alleged a conspiracy to cover up.

Their reply went in part like this:

Under Section 31B(2) of the Ombudsman Act, the Committee is prohibited from:

1. Investigating a matter relating to particular conduct
2. reconsidering a decision to investigate, not to investigate or discontinue investigation of a particular complaint; or
3. reconsidering the findings, recommendations, determinations or other decisions of the Ombudsman, or of any other person, in relation to a particular investigation or complaint.

The Committee is therefore unable to comment on any particular detail of your complaints about the Department of Education and Training. Any further correspondence on this matter will be noted and filed, but will not be responded to unless new information within the Committee’s jurisdiction is received.”…..

When I rang to enquire about “particular conduct”, as it was not defined in the Act, I was advised that it was the conduct that I was referring to, being of course, victimization, bullying, harassment, misconduct, corruption and a conspiracy to cover up!.

Children are NOT protected by any relevant Legislation from being abused in Education. However some adults with power, have put Legislation in place that protects them from being investigated in relation to allegations of serious abuse of power. They don’t have to answer to anyone.

It’s no wonder the culture of bullying and crime has been impossible to change!

Bullies are protected by Legislation – children aren’t!

maya I do think that it is hard for those of Asian background. The education system has been set up in a manner that creates the problems and attitudes that Asians face. I feel for the children because there is such a negative attitude towards them in Education and it is overt and it alienates them, embarrasses them, humiliates them and affects their feelings of self worth. It can very much affect their performance. It even makes some of them want to rebel.

It’s the Governments fault as they have created this problem and environment. The system seems to be set up to turn people against each other. You shouldn’t need to compete in academic competition to get a higher level education; all students should have equal access! They need to get rid of the Selective School tests as that is what is causing this unhealthy competition. All schools should be able to cater for all children!. High level education shouldn’t just be available to a select few, especially when the selection procedures are so grossly unfair and, what students are required to do in order to be competitive, causes so much resentment and hostility.

Sajo. The problem with the media is that there is too much left wing bias.. I tried to have my children’s matter taken up by the media. They are not interested. Only the local paper did an article. The major newspapers didn’t want to get involved. They didn’t care.

Public Schools are a State matter in NSW. If the newspapers were to take on a story like this it would have the affect of pretty much ruining the Labor party and the media would rather sacrifice a few children than do anything to damage the reputation of the Labor Party. They worry that Liberal might win the next State Election!

What I also found was that so many people in positions of power have a teaching background or connection! It always made me wonder how many teachers kids that apply for OC and Selective Schools are offered a place?

Sorry Jolanda, but I think you're going way too far down the conspiracy theory road. Things like the Daily Tele can hardly be considered 'left wing'!

Also, teacher's kids have just the same issues as anyone- my mother is a teacher, and while I have done well academically, my brother left school at the end of year ten and did a trade apprenticeship- hardly unfair access to selective schooling! If teachers kids do have any advantage in schooling, its the fact that their parent/s have a keen interest in learning.

Jolanda - I suspect the reason you came across a lot of ex teachers is because instead of sacking the bad ones they just move them into administration. Be thankful - at least they are not actually teaching!

I am a NSW State trained Primary teacher... I am also home schooling my 5 year old daughter after two terms of Kindergarten. Why? well... my own experience with teaching lead me towards Montessori education... which is really a method used to help children become effective peace makers. My daughter attended a Montessori preschool for two years prior to attending the local state school (her choice to go...and I supported her, but was always prepared to home school her if it didn't work out). One day, after we walked home, she threw her bag down, and in a fury I honestly did not expect from her yelled "Do you know who the biggest bully is in our class?" I just shrugged (I was a bit taken aback actually...) "Mrs XXX!" Her teacher!

I volunteered in her class with a reading group weekly. One cold rainy day the assisting teacher had just finished marking the roll, and with folder still on her lap, six children one after the other arrived late. It was pouring out and their parents must have made mad dashes to drive them to the gate as there was mayhem and there were kids everywhere. But the main class teacher sent them all back out into the rain to get late notes... even though the roll was still there, in the class. THEN the class teacher chose two "VIP's" to take up the roll to the office.

I have witnessed staffrooms. Some Teachers REALLY DO swear about children… they complain about trivial things brought to schools, parents, siblings, and sometimes how they can’t stand kids… NOT ALL TEACHERS…. When I taught casually and the day I HAD to yell at a class of year 6’s, because as they said “we won’t do what ya say miss cos we can walk right over ya..ya gotta do what Mr XXX does and yell at us real loud miss”…I quit teaching in the state system. I was changing my love for the job and appreciation of the learning experience into what "the system", was forcing me to become…a bully.

Continued... My daughter asked if she could home school instead of going back. She made mention that she wanted to go back to preschool where you were allowed to be yourself, and that her Kindergarten teacher was making all the children become bossy.

At the 'school gate' one morning, a mother had said to me that her girl "has a real attitude since starting school... but what can I do... you only have em for five years, then they belong to the school". She meant it, and we even argued about it... in a friendly way!

Jolanda, you are absolutely right... racism is alive and well in our education system. But from my experience people don't acknowledge what they can't see... and too often those people (parents, teachers, principals, and of course students) are just parroting what they hear without thinking. I am a blonde haired, blue eyed female, but am also a descendent from an Aboriginal blood line. My mother and sister identify as Aboriginal, but I refrain out of respect, as until we are sure of the country we come from, this side of me is 'ghost like' and awaiting the stories necessary for me to 'learn what this means for me'. I am a bit ultra sensitive to racism, because people assume they can say anything around me, and not offend me. My Step mother is Jamaican, my father Scottish, so my half sister and I don't exactly look alike. I was 12 when she was born and watching her as she has grown up into the lady she is now it has often shocked me how 'polite' people become suddenly rude. None was harder than my sisters first school. Her mother actually moved them so that my sister could "mix with more colour" and get a fair go. (They've always lived in Sydney).

Has anyone else out there been following our government's purchases of FAILED American education programs, such as HEADSTART? I believe that this is part of the problem too...