It's bad enough to think of someone on the end of a rope but consider somewhere like the US of A where you can hang, be electrocuted, gassed, given a lethal injection,... is that enough from the greatest democracy the world has known?

The death penalty is an abomination and all good people must oppose it.

Like America, we might finds ourselves reintroducing capital punishment unless our judges start handing out jail terms that reflect the seriousness of crimes and their effect on victims and society.

We must not question the assumptions of Sir Ninian Stephen because judges exist in an ethereal world where entheomania forms a large part of that world. But just ask yourself this: when has a judge ever felt threatened or was ever faced with a dangerous situation? They have drivers to transport them to and from work. When they go to some function they are surrounded by a ring of blue uniforms to keep the canaille at arm's length. When on a plane they travel 1st class, a section of the plane not open to idiots and louts with their boorish behaviour, the Butlers of Tasmania notwithstanding.

When was the last time a judge caught the 11:32pm Central to Mt Druitt train on a Saturday night and then waited at the cab rank at 12:15am? And along for the ride on the train were his 17, 18, and 19-year-old daughters? When was the last time a judge had his car knocked off?

The belief was that judges and magistrates would hand out realistic sentences that would placate the general public and remove forever any talk of the death penalty. With just a few exceptions that hasn't happened. So Dr Bowden is right to remain circumspect regarding the view that Australians have totally rejected the death penalty.

Dr Bowden might like to tell us if any of the killers of Anita Cobby has an application in to join the priesthood or become a social worker or any other calling apart from a professional criminal. Maybe if 'harsh' sentences were handed out to those alleged humans when they were first brought to book they may have developed a healthy hatred of prison food.

The United States is not a good comparison to Australia when looking at crime and punishment. One major factor being the death penalty, of course.

The average length of time that a prisoner spends in time in jail, for murder, in the US is around seven years, and sometimes less. Even if the offender is sentenced to 20 years or more, with remissions and parole, and trying to clear overcrowded jails, he or she will generally do about seven years.

So the choice for a sentencing judge is really between seven years and the death penalty.

In many Australian states judges can, and do, impose 'rest of life' or 'life means life' sentences, for the worse categories or murder, and, at least in NSW, for the worse categories of sexual assault.

In NSW the 'average' sentence given for an 'ordinary' murder is around 24 to 25 years, with usually around 18 to serve in prison. The remainder is served on parole, under supervision, and is intended both for the protection of the community and also to enable an offender to re-enter society. Similar sentences are given out for major drug crimes, including 'rest of life'.

In general the public in Australia only hear of the most sensational crimes and trials, and the most contraversial sentences, those which are either, in some people's opinion, too high or too low. Unfortunately not enough people read what the Judges themselves have said in their 'remarks on sentence' to see exactly why a certain senetence has been passed.

Sage

Just because you haven't seen judges on the buses and trains doesn't mean they are not there. They don't exactly go around wearing their wigs and gowns in public, or carrying a sign saying "I'm a judge".

I know that of judges who catch public transport, who jog for exercise on public street and of judges who go out with their teenage children.

I know judges who have experienced personal tragedy due to the effects of crime and of mental illness in their family. I will respect their privacy by saying no more than that.

And no, I am not a lawyer.

Judges have been students and lawyers before becoming judges. Many worked their way through their law degrees the same way as other students have worked their way through university. Judges don't spring into the world fully formed wearing the robes and carrying law books under their arms. They have had long dealings with both the victims of crime, and with offenders.

I know of judges who, before entering law, have been school teachers or in other professions. They have all experienced life and its complexities. They experience the same vagaries of life as the rest of us, you may consider them to be detached from the community, and their duties require them to appear that way, but they are not detached. The person buying lunch next to you at the sandwich shop may even be a judge or a magistrate

Sorry Hamlet, but from what I've seen of the sentences handed out by most Judges and Magistrates, I am not at all impressed by their supposed intelligence. They fall over backwards to look after the rights of the accused, but ignore the rights of other citizens, including the victims and their families. They may lecture the convicted felon on what a terrible thing he/she has done, but then give them a slap with a feather. People are so frustrated that they feel like taking the law into their own hands. If they did, the sky would fall on them. Judges are failing to protect the community from predators.
As or the death penalty, I have a lot of trouble making up my mind, but have to come down on preserving life, even the lives of the the lowest. After all, a life sentence [which means "life" literally] in a crowded jail mixing with the scum of the earth with no hope of parole doesn't sound attractve to me. And that's what drug pushers, smugglers, murderers, paedophiles , rapists and terrorists should get.