I am very cynical concerning this woman, especially when talk of her selling her story has surfaced. It seems obvious she is only a pretend muslim, who has been helped behind the scenes by her millionaire boyfriend, and connections to Indonesian Government Minister's son, from which she recieved very good advice, and possibly some help with the length of sentenence sought from the prosecuters. If she is going to tell a story, it should contain the truth, the "whole" truth, and nothing but the truth. The ramifications for current Australian inmates, and future one's could be enormous. As the Indonesian Courts are likely to toughen their stance even further, following the knowledge that they have been duped. Michelle Leslie should be ashamed of herself, not only for not taking responsibility for her actions, but also for leaving her compatriates in a worse position, by her deception. This is not the Australian way.

I must commend Michelle for her courage in adopting for no matter how long the mantle of Islam; she clearly does not read the vitriol poured on our Muslim brothers and sisters in these pages by some of our fellow citizens. If she did she surely would not have associated herself with them -

but she clearly is no bomber, muslim or not, as there is very little in the way of explosives she could smuggle in now she has returned to the minimalist style of clothing she really prefers.

I guess when your 24 and faced with the prospect of 15 years in the slammer you would do pretty much anything to get off the proverbial hook. I dont really blame her for that.

I would accept a simple - "I did it becasue I was scared" - if she were ugly I doubt whether the press would be too bothered with her at all or any one else for that matter.

I think because Islam is only of minor significance as a religion in australia that no one much cares whether she has or she hasn't converted. What people care about is whether she was just bullsh*tting by dressing up for strategic advantage.

Of course to the average aussie it is highly offensive to see any one of our number dressed up in such an ugly fashion and in order to pretend they are not who they really are. They are australian and have no need to hide their dignity behind such awful things.

On the other hand as usual, the media can wear a little blame too, it just loves to put big pictures of pretty girls on its papers and stir up a controversy over an individual's actions that have nothing to do with the rest of us. She hasn't broken any law by with her fancy dress efforts so we can all basically ignore it as bad legal advice and poor personal behaviour. Its pretty poor form though no one can deny.

It was so obvious.....the change in dress code......the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.....well we shall just have to wait and see....then again if she takes the advice of the PM and the Foreign Minister we might never know.....which wouldn't be such a bad thing......perhaps the truth can wait a while and Ms.Leslie can wander around incognito.....perhaps a paper bag over her head might suffice.......

So, some none-too-bright model might (or might not) have falsely claimed to be a Muslim convert to help her cause. Do the knee-jerkers really believe that Indonesian judges are silly enough to fall for such a shallow trick, if it was a trick?

It seems that Salam Zreika does think the judges would be taken in. But, let's not let common sense get in the way of a chance to take umbrage on behalf of Islam.

Get over it, Salam. We just don't take religion that seriously here, and we are used to shysters using Christianity to hide what they really have up there sleeves. One now dead politician, in particular, was notorious for it.

And ask yourself, Salam: is this "outrageous" action you take as an affront to your religion worse than that of your co-religionists who use Islam as justification for terrorism?

If I was looking at 15 years for two pills in Indonesia, I too would immediately don a burqa and proclaim my conversion to Islam happened years ago. Schapelle is probably spewing that she never thought of it first.

Talk about naivette !!
Salam, bless your Islamic heart - not only have you and 20 million Ozzie battlers been forlornly duped by ML's antics, she outwitted her Indonesian captors, Judges and the Indonesian Nation et al !
For openers, ( if you followed the Sunday Mail ) she confessed, then relented, then proclaimed she was misinterpreted, said her 'confession' was a forgery, then took to the 'cloth' her Islamic personna..the rest is pure fictional gossip.
She raised a few heckles at Keroboken Jail when she morphed into the burka, but then from all accounts, she was granted 'celebrity status' with her jailers because she embraced 'allah', and was instantly 'one of them'. Overnight, she was granted a single cell on her lonesome, whereas our other celebrant Shapel C, still languishes with druggies, prostitutes, lesbians and assorted flotsam - sharing her dismal plight, because she still professes her Christianity ?
So Salam, in the short term, it pays to denounce one's Religion, one's intergity, one's National pride, whatever - if it means 'FREEDOM', at any price.
Now, in the aftermath, she is offering her 'story' to media tycoons - pity 'sixty minutes' has gone into hibernation for the Yule tide, otherwise Kerry Packer's checkbook news scoop, will undoubtably rule the roost, and we will witness an 'expurgated version of how ML was misled,denied justice, framed, coherced, starved, tortured.. ad nauseaum. Yes, ho hum, isn't it sickening !
It may be, I have a jaundiced view of the shenaggians in Bali, but whatever her demeanor, she has 'class' and ' style', and at the end of the Day, she should profit from her 'ill gotten' story, and enjoy the 'space'- she really earned it after 3 months in HELL.
For those other inmates at Kerobokan, take heart. K Packer is waiting in the wings for your story - it may make all the suffering seem 'worth while'at the end of your ordeal !
Cheers.

Leigh: The article was about Michelle Leslie specifically - no mention of terrorism there. Why even bother bringing it up when you keep mentioning that Australia isn't concerned with religion?

The editor's, and other comments on the letter pages of various press obviously were, or else it would not have been published.

I thought it was a good piece, as were some of the other comments by Dalma and others.

I wear red underpants. Maybe I'm joining the communist part? Or perhaps I attend the Ascham School? I will never reveal the truth. You will never know. How does it feel?

Quick Reminder, Salam: our Aussie democratic society is not a derivative of Islam.
Its roots lie elsewhere.
In Islamic society, a person does gain preferential treatment by converting.
That is how the teaching works.

Q. Would you like preferential treatment?
A. Then, convert.
Q. Did Michelle need preferential treatment?
A. Yes, she was facing very severe treatment.

Lacking integrity? Perhaps.
But then, so too was the 'system' she found herself in.

Salam, you may want issue your 'please explain'?
The public will be interested in the reply, as far as gossip value goes.
And as far as feeding cynicism goes.

However, if we are speaking of inconsistencies, then many of them lie elsewhere.

There is one huge question for the Muslim community to 'please explain'.

Is the Australian Muslim community prepared, forever and a day, to honor the Aussie separation between "church" and state?

If so, have the aims of Islam changed somewhere along the way?
If so, can this ever be authentic Islam?
Please explain?

I think you guys need to read the article again... your anti-Islamic smack-talking comments are not even related to the content of it.

1) Bali is majority non-Muslim.
2) The Judge (as far as I know) was Christian, or at least non-Muslim.
3) Indonesia is not an Islamic State, especilally not Bali.

This is just a piece from a Muslim writer wondering the same thing as many other Australians have either said or felt - was it all a sham? Even moreso, because the writer wears a scarf, and along with other professional women who choose to wear the scarf, may have felt a little slighted by the publicity stunt.

It's a valid opinion, and one many people share - Muslim or not. The letters sections of the dailies show this clearly, as well as the headlines.

Take a step back and look at the core reasons:

A) She is muslim, be it non practicing or whatever at the time, but she is still a muslim regardless
B) She is in a prison with a number of practicing Muslim women, and in an environment more sympathetic to them.
C) When there are drugs to come down from, or a drug addiction which she is also dealing with whilst in prison, what is wrong with her turning to her spirituality as a means to help with her presonal demons and get through?
D) There is no advantage, in fact, severe disdvantage being a pretty girl like her in prison, thus exposure to this when she can choose otherwise is not a stupid or disrespectful decision.

Does every Muslim woman in Australia wear the recommended attire? Of course not, this is the wonderful thing About Australia over some fundamentalist Muslim countries....they have a right to do so.

Who's business is it of ours? It is her personal choice and i think it would be a much easier integration if Muslims perhaps followed miss Leslie's lead at times.

Horses for courses. When in Rome..

Stop judging her. I hope she makes good money from it, it is a capatalist society, she has a right to. No one would agree it was a money making excersise (risk Vs return just does not cut it) and it happenned overseas, what right do we have, she broke none of OUR laws.

Get over it folks. Muslims take note if you were able to have a right to choose when you wear the appropriate clothing, i am sure it would be much easier to assimilate. Non Muslims, leave her be, go into any dance nightclub in any city and your sons, daughters, nieces, nephews etc doing much more than Michelle did. She nearly lost 15 years, but i bet it was the best learning experience she ever had.

Who cares. She's free, good for her.

In Australia your lawyer will tell you to wear a suit when you appear before a court of law.

Leslie felt that adopting the dress of Islam made her more respectable and credible before a court; it is no different to putting on a suit and cutting your hair in Australia. There is no public backlash when Australians who wouldn't normally do so put on a suit when before a judge. Au contrare, the Canterbury Bulldogs players didn't even have to be before a judge to experience a backlash for *not* wearing a suit.

Sorry, can you only be a Muslim if you dress a certain way? I understood there were many ways to be a Muslim and plenty of women who wear western clothes are also good Muslims. Apart from a few risque modelling shots, which may have been taken prior to conversion, I haven't seen her wearing anything particularly revealing. I didn't realise female Muslim devoutness was judged entirely by appearances. Seems a little superficial and judgemental, if it is.
Also, if it had been my daughter in Michelle Leslie's position I'd have dressed her in whatever it took to get her out of there, and feel entirely justified in doing so. Particularly if judgements are made so much on external appearance.
I am sure there are strippers and prostitutes with more integrity, heart and soul than many stitched up buttoned up virgins, of whatever religion.
Indeed, while I deplore bigotry against Muslims, articles like this do their cause no favours. If the religion really is about what you wear and how you look, particularly for women, then it really does confirm some of those prejudices.
Surely there must be more to it than that?

islam is in serious need of reform if as soon as a girl chooses to, god forbid, wear a tank top, community leaders are going to jump up and down and slam our newspapers with fiery headlines about how they, once again, don't approve of our society. what exactly makes them a better or more worthy people than michelle?

as an australian, you are exposed to all kinds of influences, and you are encouraged to be open-minded and seek wisdom from many different philosophies. michelle has quite obviously had a strong influence in her life that was from an islamic background, and found that adopting some of the philosophies of islam brought a measure of peace and order to her thoughts.
please don't tell me you didn't notice that a great deal of the time michelle wore anything on her head, it also covered her face, during an emotional time in front of an unforgiving press.

if we judged you based on your religion, and publicly spoke out against you for it, i can't imagine the hailstorm of protests and the backlash we would see from a community that fiercly defends it's right to religious freedom.. so why do you have such a disregard for michelle's?

look at you salam, you've turned into pauline hanson! everything you say you're not.

Salam,

As an Australian Muslim I really think you are mixing apples and oranges here.

I can understand yours and Dr Ameer's comments if she confessed that she faked it. Whether she was pretending or not, if she still claims to be a Muslim then nobody is allowed to judge whether she was pretending or not. This is basic Quran.

Your article states that there is a 'faith gap' because she is not wearing the Hijab? Were did you get that from? Islam (& modesty) have nothing to do with dress codes.

Can you clarify?

For the sake of the non-muslim majority reading the article, see my comments on:

www.musliminsight.blogspot.com

So many complexities.
So many opinions.

Joy to the world! The Lord is come!
Go free Michelle! Go free!

I'm surprised that anyone took the conversion seriously. I mean - under the circumstances, in jail for a few days after being caught with ecstasy, it just made her look stupid.

And she's looking increasingly stupid. Heck, if I was a muslim I'd be offended.

A fake conversion would seem indicative of poor moral fibre. A true conversion after mild hardship seems indicative of a fairly hastily thought out set of codes and values. Finally - to change her mind again (if that is what happened) only helps convince me that thoughts breeze through her head like clouds through the sky.

In either case, I agree. She needs to explain - if only to salvage some dignity.

Couldn't care less whether she offends you or your religion or not Salam.

Get over it.

Did her lies hurt anyone?

Is someone rotting in prison because of her actions?

What would you do in her shoes?

Least she's not faking single motherhood or a bad back to get a pension card.

Same old whiny crap from the same ideology that has less credibility than your average model.

I am a regular visitor to Bali. When I was there a month ago, I was in the Matahari dept store in Kuta Square and was going up on the escalator right behind a couple of extremely attractive young women. They were wearing little tops, VERY tight jeans and hijabs on their heads. I see no conflict, perhaps because I am an Australian. I have seen a girl wearing a hijab on the back of a motorbike, with her skirt hitched up far enough to make our Balinese Hindu taxi driver smile. And a Balinese Hindu girl of my acquaintance has a Muslim friend who wears little tops, mini skirts and no hijab. What's supposed to be the problem?

As avocadia pointed out, it's not unknown for various accused men to leave their customary very casual attire in the wardrobe and wear the English national dress to an Australian court, presumably to impress the judge.

I have Christian friends who may do one or more of the following: Be in de-facto relationships. Prefer to swim nude. Be gay and either be in, or actively seek, a relationship. Surely most Christians these days would not criticise them for this. And hopefully, Muslims living in Australia will, if they haven't already done so, learn to "live and let live" in this respect.

Some of us may remember Fred Nile. When Fred was a member of the NSW State Parliament, during a debate on free beaches [clothes optional], Fred said that he would like us all to wear neck-to-knee costumes. But maybe Fred's a bit too fundamentalist for most Australians.

I would like to think that most Australians are more interested in what goes on in a person's mind, and in their resulting actions, than in what they choose to wear.

It's just a piece of cloth guys.
To cover or not to cover your face or body will not earn you more or less brownie points any more than to be a good person will take you to heaven. It's a lie and it's called "religion".
God must be really upset to see how his world is reverting back to religion after all he has done for humanity.
In case you forgot he has died on a cross to deliver you and me from the religious laws and regulations to give us free access to eternal life with Him.
Check it out while it is still FREE.

Perhaps she should have just organized the murder of 200 people, I mean, that get's you like a couple of years right, as opposed to the 15 she was staring down the barrel for carrying 2 pills, possibly carrying on behalf of some son of a government minister, but lets not mention that, you know we have our foreign relations with this Islamic nation to worry about.

Tell us Salam, does it offend your religion when people claiming to be adherents are corrupt to the core, or commit mass murder? Where is the condemnation? Or you don't mind that, only when young girls facing 15 years of hell for a minor indescretion choose to take on a certain dress? A dress mind you that some of you back here insist on wearing despite violating entrenched dress codes because it is your right to express yourself as you want? Does Michelle Leslie not have that right?

Now someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Michelle Leslie ever stated before the court, "go easy on me, I'm a Muslim". And don't tell me Islam holds ownership of the "quilted head" look.

Salam,
I must ask you is the religion of Islam adherence to a code of dress laws; or is it like Christianity the expression of character that identifies the nature of God eminating from the mind and soul?

From your comments you judge her relationship to God by her dress and not by her character. I suggest you look much deeper within, perhaps there is weakness in her character for taking estacy, but even if she sin it does not denounce her faith. Changing clothes does not mean you have changed your faith. Or does it??

Quote,"Despite being found guilty, she still stuck to her Muslim appearance until she was freed and back to being the model.."

Salam, your points have merit and I don't know your other writing (as is probably the case with many other readers). Maybe you have addressed the bigger issues elsewhere. If not I'm really wishing that you had written a different article.

What many of us want to hear is Aussie muslims speaking out against the Indonesian legal system which is perceived by many as being very corrupt. We want to hear that muslims are concerned that the Indonesion legal system is held in such low regard that many believe that a conversion to Islam might actually help (admittedly Australian parole boards have to deal with conversions to christianity as well). We want to hear that you really hope that religion does not matter before the courts in Indonesia (or elsewhere).

I'm not sure what price I would put on my integrity if faced with a no one gets hurt deception vs the potential of a long jail term, hopefully I'll never have to find out. What I will not do is judge someone who may have made a choice less than the ideal in the face of a judicial system widely regarded as corrupt. I note that Michelle still claims to be muslim but maybe that has been publicised since you wrote the article.

How about an article on the ethics of those thugs who bashed the reporter recently following the arrests of suspected terrorists?
Now there you have some really disgusting behaviour.

R0bert

"Now that she is out and back to her normal life, there has been no mention of her conversion to Islam or how she plans to tackle fitting her current way of life to this modest religion."

And your point salam?

God, it sounds as if Salam Zreika thinks sharia law is of some relevance here. Its NOT. This girl has every right in Australia to wear what she wants and to dump any religion she wants, learn our Australian law and customs its part of being an Australian citizen. If she lied to escape jail do you begrudge her that

Apparently it is OK to take drugs,sell your story to the media,and "propel her modelling career into a higher stratis sphere" according to one of her pretentious wanking colleagues.

Great example for our children.Ecstasy is now the most prolific drug used among our young,and long term use destroys the chemical balance that controls our emotions.Great future for our children eah.

Excellent points R0bert.

At, first I found myself resenting Michelle Leslie - silly girl getting caught with two tabs of ecstacy in a country notorious for harsh drug laws.

However, I forced myself to imagine being in her shoes. I did a lot of dumb things when I was young. Could've been me. If faced with 15 years in an Indonesian jail I would've done anything, worn anything, adopted any attitude to get out.

I am sure that Michelle wishes she never made such a stupid mistake. She owes us nothing, least of all an explanation. All she needs to do now is learn from her mistakes and get on with her life.

Rancid here. I was on the receiving end of a punch in the face once (everybody wants to fight you when you are nine-stone nothing "girl"). I have never won a fight, but then again I have never backed away - ever. The police suggested I not show for court in torn jeans and dirty shirt but dress to respect the court. Dress accordingly was the message.
The defence attack victim's character in court. Most defence lawyers are animals - these lawyers often know that their clients are as guilty as hell, they use every trick in the book to break the victim during and before the case goes to court.

I would love to see some comparitive statistics between the wealthy accused and the poor accused. Always try and line up a solicitor to be with you when you speak to the police -even if you are a victim. Never fall into the trap of going to the headmaster in cases of child abuse (some private schools suggest that problems be discussed with Principals. Don't go straight to the police with solicitor in hand.) Police priority is to avoid the expense of court proceedings. Having said that, police are generally held in high esteem in our place - good fellas.
For some reason good presentation makes you a good fella in the eyes of some magistrates. However, the observation that magistrates are professional is probably closer to the truth. Perhaps in Leslie's case the prosecution didn't force things along.
I think the more interesting thing here is how the media can create and manipulate the news and the news agenda. Grace.

Dawood,

Sorry! I will, of course, check with you in future before I ‘bring up’ anything. Alternatively, you could content yourself with expressing your own views and leaving others to express theirs.

I have absolutely no interest in your opinions, and I suggest you don’t tax your limited intellect by worrying about the opinions of others

Leigh: Well, trying to tarnish the writer by bringing up something completely unrelated is a low blow. Nowhere was the article about terrorism, it was about a specific incident that was currently in the press. What happened to having a "fair go"?

Why does the author suddenly need to be all guns blazing about terrorism? Is it because she identifies herself as Muslim? How do you know she hasn't written anything about it, as R0bert mentioned, or her personal opinion about it? It was just a current issue that was being publicized. The press followed this news instead of a young man being hung, amongst multitudes of other posibilities.

The article also does not say anything about her needing to don the hijab to be Muslim - that and worse was from Dr. Ameer Ali and not this author. The article merely questions her actions from the view of someone within the same faith, who does wear the hijab. It is more about consistency than anything else, not to mention why she decided to "come out" in court, on a drugs charge, after converting "2 years ago" while being an underwear model and all-round party girl.

It was Michelle herself who brought the religious aspect out, again, by her actions. So why shouldn't someone within that religious tradition give an opinion? It seems many others also agree with the criticism, regardless of religiosu persuasion.

I wish Muslims were out of the press just as much as anyone else, but what can we do if the press keeps on talking about our religion?

Dawood,
I wasn't going to bother but since you feel that hot under the collar maybe this will cool you down a bit.

Just two points from your words:
1)"Leigh: The article was about Michelle Leslie specifically - no mention of terrorism there. Why even bother bringing it up when you keep mentioning that Australia isn't concerned with religion?"

Is that a Freudian slip or do you always equate terrorism with religion?

2)"Indonesia is not an Islamic State, especilally not Bali."

It may be a republic but so are many other islamic countries. You can't deny the fact that Indonesia is 90% muslim. You are right about Balinese not being majority muslims but then again who blew up innocent people?

As to why the media keeps talking about islam – well what do you expect? You want us to sit back and watch it happen? Some of us are not that naïve you know.

Michelle should be allowed to do what she wants that is legal, and wear what she wants. Whether she is a Muslim today and a Hindu tomorrow is nobodies business but hers.
Just be pleased for her sake that she has been released from gaol.

ant

Salam Zreika argues Michelle Leslie should explain the inconsistencies in her dress to the Australian public.

NO she doesn't.

This is a free country there is NO SHARIA here, or did you all forget?

Salam

Thank you for your article.

I have found all posts interesting reading, whilst not necessarily agreeing - even so, thought rObert's was a good one.

One thing that people have missed is that Michelle (according to newspaper and radio reports, including her legal team ) also claimed that she has ADHD. She claimed that she had run out of her prescription medication (Ritalin), and that her phantom friend Mia gave her two Es to combat her anxiety (duuh - E causes anxiety!).

As a mental health nurse of long standing I cracked up when I read such crap! Oh yes, and by the way, through her legal team, she also confessed to being addicted to Ritalin prior to going to Bali. Well, at least we know that if her addiction is a true claim, she would not have had to go through withdrawal syndrome in prison.

Michelle, give us a break. You are a micro on this planet. You are not a very intelligent person - but indeed, you and your cunning lawyers were powerful. Sad that Schapelle Corby did not have the sauve legal team that you had.

Salam. I would not worry that Michelle has bruised the image of moderate Muslims. Any Aussie with half a brain can see that she has bruised Australia perse!

Cheers, and as you say "Peace"
Kay

PS: After 30 or so years of psych/mental health nursing - the notion of adult ADHD is the biggest load of bulldust that I have ever heard!

Come now, this country is called Australia we are free to dress as we like, if we wish to wander the streets dressed like a letter box we are free to do so.
Should we wish to see that dress freedom we only need look, Muslims are free to dress as they wish, oh unless family presure takes that right away.
No doupt our freedoms was a reason many came to Australia leave those freedoms as they are.

meredith, I do not understand what you have written; we are in total agreement. Michelle has nothing to explain; the wowsers should use their time more productively. As I said previously, she can belong to one religion one day and another the next, it is not our business.

People with any decency will leave her alone.

Dear Ant,
you are beginning to gain an inkling of "Islam" .. by observing in a very 'western/Judao christian manner..that issues of faith are primarily an individual matter whereas under Islamic rule they are a judicial/police matter.

Hence we have a very 'noticably traditionally dressed' Muslim author here suggesting that Michelle should.... shape up to specific dress codes.

In many Islamic countries, people are fined if they don't attend mosque, eat during ramadan or consume alchohol or tobacco. In Saudi Arabia there is no such thing as 'singles' shopping opportunities. A man has to go shopping with his sister, or his family. They only recently opened 'family' malls where both sexes can be present, and then, only with relatives of the opposite sex.

I don't know about others, but the thought of the 'religious police' breathing down my neck every time I cough or blow my nose or go shoppping, is not something I relish, but it is "Islam" as practiced by many Islamic countries.

Paul, when writing to the Galatian Christians (who were being pressured by the legalistic Jews to be 'circumcized') had this to say:

<<1It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.>>

This is balanced by his further saying:

<<13You, my brothers, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the sinful nature[a];

rather,

serve one another in love. 14The entire law is summed up in a single command: "Love your neighbor as yourself."[b] 15If you keep on biting and devouring each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.>>

The latter part of V 15, seems to describe very accurately the goings on among the Islamic community today.
The Jews have over 600 'sub rules' to interpet the 10 commandments.
I prefer Pauls approach in v 14 above.

ant

What I am meaning is islamic/sharia law is not Australian law, islamic propaganda acts as if islamic law is law in OZ, or has some meaning here to the Australian population.

I thought some of the posts in this string supporting Michelle’s right to freedom were spoken as if the Australian public feels the islamic insistence that we recognize forced dress codes for muslim females actually had some weight to it.

It has about as much weight legally and socially as a xtian attempting to force us all to go to church every Sunday, and wear jesus t shirts as national dress cuz we have xtians in the population.

Not even hardcore xtians fundies, even if they may wish to live like this themselves, in comparison to the islamists they have enough social skills to not do this to the general public. They reasonably rely instead on people’s free will to embrace or discount. Though some will debate this, i.e. abortion laws coming into debate. Even so it is still debated within our Western sensibility.

So ant along with the slice of public opinion in this thread, I’m in total agreement with you,
"People with any decency will leave her alone."
That is exactly the problem, some aren’t.

Michelle DOES NOT have to explain anything. There are no “should be free to’s” as she IS FREE under Ozzy law.

To question the right of a woman to dress (religious or non religious) as she wants, is hardcore fundie islamist, no matter how Salam Zreika cloaks it.

Never forget for a second we are actually free here!

Nah, she wasnt serious. She does what anyone caught red handed and hauled before the courts contemplating a serious penalty would do. She says what ever she needs to say to mitigate potential punishment. Any lawyer worth their salt would be down right negligent if they didnt advise a client to go that approach. Criminals have a way of denying and explaining things away. She and her lawyer ran a good campaign and now she's free. She did a few months in gaol now she's out. Good for her.

I'm going to stir the pot a bit. Reading some recent posts opened up a new line of thought on this issue for me.

The message is being sent loud and clear that Michelle Leslie can wear whatever she wants and muslim leaders should not have any say in the matter. Fair enough and pretty much my prefered opinion.

On the other hand many of us want muslim leaders to be speaking out on other issues, encouraging muslims to do what the law does not require - to tell muslims to integrate into the australian community as far as their religion allows. Our law does not force muslims to have non muslim friends. It does not force them to try and seperate cultural artifacts from things that are generally part of their religion and yet I'm cheered whenever I see that on the public agenda in the muslim world. And for the hardliners out there I do see it being discussed.

Can muslim leaders only make public comment on an issue if their views suit the prevailing ethos of the Australian community? What happens to our freedom when that becomes the rule?

No easy answers here but worth thinking about if we are going to spend time on this topic.

R0bert

Robert here is an editorial on Muslims in England and France.
Will they assimilate? It appears not.

WILL LONDON BURN TOO? By Patrick Sookhdeo
"Trevor Phillips, chairman of the Commission for Racial Equality, has warned recently of 'sleepwalking our way to segregation'. Although he was not speaking principally about Muslims, they have become perhaps the most dominant group in British society. Divided along ethnic and sectarian lines, Muslims are nevertheless united by their creed, their law and the powerful concept of the umma, the totality of Muslims worldwide.

The process of migrating and establishing a Muslim community in a non-Muslim context has an important place in Islamic theology. The word hijra is used to describe such a migration, in particular the migration of Mohammed and his followers in AD 622 from Mecca, where they were persecuted, to Medina where they established the first Islamic state. Eight years earlier another hijra occurred when Muslim refugees found freedom of worship in the Christian kingdom of Abyssinia.

Muslims see the establishment of a Muslim community in the UK as a contemporary hijra. But an important question concerns which 7th-century hijra they compare it to: the hijra to Abyssinia in which the Muslims became contented and loyal subjects of a Christian king, or the hijra to Medina where they seized political and military power. ...."

Posted on Free Republic at http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1519425/posts

John Stone: Some will not integrate

The Australian. November 18, 2005
John Stone is a former treasury secretary and National Party senator.
"...The usual apologists have been lecturing us on the reasons for these French events. However, there is one obvious reason they seem reluctant to mention. That is the cultural incompatibility involved between the French people and the huge numbers of Muslim immigrants who, with their large families, are rapidly turning France into an Islamic country. ..."
At http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,17280160%255E7583,00.html

Philo, your post had little to do with the issues I raised but I guess we all do that at times.

I'll agree that there are some who will not integrate but then there are plenty of Australian born non-muslims who do not integrate either. Almost any given 1/2 hour of a current affairs show will give you examples. I suspect that the difference in level of integration between moderate muslims and people of some other groups is not that great. Integration into the Australian community is a pretty wide target.

I've met christian women who cover their heads fairly regularly for religious reasons. I have yet to see an argument for all christain women not covering their hair in church services that is consistant with the type of logic demanded of muslims in regard to the Quran by some christains posters. It's OK for christans to put aside parts of their scriptures because of interpretation but not OK for muslims - why.

There are non-drinkers in the broader community, there are people who generally socialise with others of a similar social background etc. Does a muslim have to be more "aussie" than most other aussies before they are integrated? Should I be kicked out because I only drink in moderation and never get drunk?

And again what has all this got to do with the article - plenty to do with muslims in Australia but there are other threads about that topic.

R0bert

Haveing watched the young lady tell what she can of her story without harming others its time to leave her be.
The one thing she says she is is an Aussie Muslim , if she is I can live with that dressed like an Aussie not telling me we must change to fit in with another way of life she is ok by me.
R bigotry is unwellcome in any form from any relidgion, some followers of all faiths fill that bill, bigotry!

Michele did a lovely job in handling the Indonesian legal system, anybody with a brain would approach it as she did. If they told me that going before a court and praying to god would get me off with a slap on the wrist, I'd be on me knees quickly. It is not hard to appear to uphold demonic fallacies if they will give you and advantage without hurting anyone, except the blanks depression.

As can be seen in all the current world problems, it is not people like Michele that have a credibility problem, it is islam and all other religions, that face the reality of non credibility. When we get self righteous diatribes coming from the mentally inept, then we can see how peaceful and loving they are. Salam is just typical of the blind religious that really have no understanding of reality.

Look at islamic countries, corruption is the major part of their economies. It is only realistic for someone caught up in their system to use the methods that the religious use to gain advantage, corrupt and unethical practices. Countries under the control of Christianity are the same, but in a different form, lying, false information, misrepresentation, and favoring of vested interests.

Michele put her head down and went with the flow, Corby allowed the government to get involved, thus stopping any chance of using the Indonesian system to her advantage. Salam like all those oppressed by their illogically violent belief system, is jealous because she doesn't have the fortitude to be a real person, just a clone.

If there is any explaining to do, it should be Salam explaining why her faith is so divisive and a major part of the cause of all the ills in the world. After all how credible is someone that has to walk around fully covered in blazing sun, why not just put paper bags on your heads, at least it would give us a laugh rather than feeling insulted. Lets have an explanation as to the inconsistencies of islam, in what it preaches and its worldwide expression.

As one who has spent many weeks in Indonesia over the last 10 years I say "go girl!". That country is a corrupt and dangerous place and populated by so-called "gentle" Muslims who hate with a fierce passion. Anything she could do to avoid spending 15 years in hell is acceptable. Three months in prison is suitable punishment for two pills and if her "conversion", even temporary, helped her get out of there, so much the better.

Im not sure she's just to explain about the muslim ,what about the anxiety disorder I find that anoying too, I have one and you dont use that kind of medication for anxiety? I think its all a sham and she got caught out partying hard lucky lucky girl indeed to get out of bali shappelle is still there

madd

See my post of Thursday, November 24.

Cheers
Kay

I cannot see why Michelle Leslie is under an obligation to anyone to explain her decisions about what clothing she wears. Why are we so critical of her?

We may well have reservations about her behaviour, but she did not choose to become notorious and we may be wise not to cast the first or the second or any other stone.

Would anyone like to hazard a guess as to why the prosercution, lowered their asking sentence from 15 years to 3 months, rather than concerntrate on her clothing. Would/could it be a millionaire boyfriend who was able to pay $600,000 in {legal} costs, or the influence of her connection with the Indonesian Minister's son, no....probably not,although I bet Shappelle Corby wishes she had a millionaire boyfriend, and connections in the right places.....