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The Forum > Article Comments > Apocalypse now: why we shouldn't fear if the end is nigh > Comments

Apocalypse now: why we shouldn't fear if the end is nigh : Comments

By Peter Sellick, published 9/11/2005

Peter Sellick deciphers the religious significance of waiting for the apocalypse.

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Useful coments Boaz. The Scripture is clear if we are willing to see.
Thanks
Posted by Dave Powell, Friday, 11 November 2005 2:57:28 PM
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“Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away before all these things take place” (Matthew 24:34); “Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away till all has taken place” (Luke 21:32). “All these things” are a description and prediction of the end of the world.

I asked for an explanation of these texts and why, given that nearly 2000 years have passed without the world ending, we should not conclude that JC got it wrong. With the consequence, of course, that the Bible is riddled with errors and thinking based on the ignorance prevailing in the period over which it was written (say, 1000BC to 100AD, approx).

No reply from the believers. Question too hard, perhaps? I rest my case.
Posted by Mhoram, Friday, 11 November 2005 6:12:33 PM
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Part 1.
Mhoram

I may give you a different answer than Peter would. Because you ask the question sincerely I assume you will give the answer a intellectually honest appraisal. The question is not to hard for me. The answer may be too hard for you to understand. On the surface your question is similar to the policeman's question _ “have you stopped beating you wife, yes or no”? If you have not been bashing your wife, you are RS,all the question allows you to do is confess to being a wife beater. When a person learns new things these things have to be compatible with their knowledge base, assumptions, presumptions, etc., and you understand your questions in terms of yours. I understand your question in terms of my knowledge,assumptions, etc. What I am doing now is setting up a temporary knowledge base, assumption set, etc., which should enable us to communicate. Your use of the word 'believers' suggests you may be Muslim. If so then you will have been indoctrinated with a Muslim version of Christian knowledge. This would make my version more difficult to understand. Mohammed declared Jesus Christ apostate, ie., not the Christ and not the son of God. Christ declared Mohammed apostate by stating that the Law may not be changed. I accept Jesus Christ and His teachings but I regard the Muslim, Christian and Jewish religions all apostate. Still many may be saved because of Jesus Christ, the daily sacrifice and their circumcision which preceded their religions. What makes the Christian religion apostate, among many things, is instead of them saying, “There is no other name under heaven by which we may be saved” , they say, “There is no other pair of names under heaven by which we may be saved, except Jesus and Paul. Without Paul there is no new covenant, there is still circumcision, Paul continually undermines the authority of Jesus and contradicts His teachings.
Posted by GoldBrick, Saturday, 12 November 2005 1:56:13 AM
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Part 2.
Mhoram

A simple answer to your question is:

One of the many prophesies Jesus fulfilled is that he would speak in parables. Jesus always spoke in parables except when He called his apostles aside and spoke to them personally. This is recorded in the Gospels.

Had you read the preceding verses you would have found the verses you quote are taken from parables and as such the time frames that you see are non-existent or could apply to any generation.

Another problem is with translation and interpretation. If explicit accuracy was required the Gospel would not have given in parables. The Gospel was given in parables to counter the letter of the Law syndrome.

Another translation that I have for Mat 24:34 is: Amen I say unto you. This race will not pass away, until all these things come to pass.

I do not know that term end of the world is in the bible. I am familiar with the terms 'time of the end' and 'end of time'. Daniel's chronological prophesies has the time of the end starting in 1844. The end of time is when Jesus Christ returns. Now the first resurrection takes place and they are raised up to be Christ in the air, and have eternal life. Then Christ destroys the rest of the human race with normal death and takes those of His kingdom to heaven for a thousand years. The earth is left desolate of God and with Satan left in house arrest on earth. Christ returns at the end of the thousand years with his kingdom. The second resurrection takes place and they receive the second death along with Satan. Christ continues with His kingdom on earth for eternity.

If you want to know more then read my book.

I am sorry Peter.
Posted by GoldBrick, Saturday, 12 November 2005 1:59:55 AM
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Goldbrick, you chose a very suitable name and what you wrote is very thick with words and thin with meaning. Very much like a golden-heired beauty.
It seems you also believe that you wrote the Bible. Now there is a true believer ladies and gentlemen because Goldbrick didn't write not near black enough for my belief in Gods.
Posted by GlenWriter, Saturday, 12 November 2005 6:51:49 AM
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Dear Scout

The 'meaning' of Peters article is this (as I understand it)

If you don't believe in a literal resurrection of Christ, then you must 're-construct' Christianity and 'hope' etc in terms of the 'here and now' rather than an afterlife, -appears to be what Sells has done.

He speaks of

<<The Christian hope lies neither in the extension of life on this earth via medical technology nor the extension of life after death in an “afterlife” but in the fulfillment of all things.>>

Well, I can agree with that to a point. But not with the idea that an 'afterlife' is not a vital part of our Christian hope. Perhaps Sells does believe in an afterlife, and a literally risen Christ but puts the emphasis on the 'here and now'.

I'm sure Sells will clarify this.

John 14
<<1"Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God[a]; trust also in me. 2In my Father's house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you. 3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. 4You know the way to the place where I am going."

5Thomas said to him, "Lord, we don't know where you are going, so how can we know the way?"

6Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7If you really knew me, you would know[b] my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him."

8Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us."

9Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father.>>

Hope that answers the question Scout. My prayer is that you and all here also will 'see' (God) the Father in Christ.
Posted by BOAZ_David, Saturday, 12 November 2005 7:56:26 AM
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