ummyasmin, fair point but enaj is not trying to force touching on anyone - rather saying that she exercises her right not to deal with someone who treats her with what is by local standards gross disrespect. Well that is how I read her post.

Society will not function without some framework of cultural norms, personally I prefer them to be fairly loose but still expect some to be there. Living in any society is a balancing act between living by your own views and acting in a manner which shows some respect for the others we deal with.

Generally here a refusal to shake hands with someone is a sign of
- you have very dirty hands and don't want to pass the grime on
- your low opinion of the other person
- your mental health issues
- or we have finally been hit with a pandemic and you want to stay alive.

R0bert

Enaj... UmmYassin's response to your comment about 'shaking your hand' is classic.... and sooooo "Islamic".. i.e. "and Allah knows best" is frequently appended to many portions in the Quran to give the preceeding statement a 'holy' ring to it.

Ummyassin should not couch her response in 'Individual liberty' terms, (we can decide who can touch our body's)because she is speaking as a muslim. (?) If she does not wish to shake a man or womans hand in Australia, due to religious reasons, she should say so, and then we can get on with the task of educating the public more about the social/cultural incompatability of Islam to our Anglo/Euro prevailing culture.

It is the absolute height of cultural insult, to not shake the hand of a person (male or female) in Australia.

If Umyassin does not wish to participate in our culture, then she should leave Australia and go to some country where here faith is compatable.. I suggest Saudi Arabia or Indonesia.

The 'point' of Culture is so everyone knows how to act.

If you goto Saudi, you can then become the blessed '1 of 4' wives of some prince... thus assigning you a value 25% that of monogamous cultures. In the home/birthplace of Islam, your prince has the Quranic right to slave girls and to have sex with them. I'm sure you would feel more 'culturally comfortable' with that idea..right ? (sura 23.5-6) (And remember "Allah knows best")

Think twice about the Islamic rights of your husband. Strange..I don't read anywhere that a woman can have 'slave men' and have sexual entitlements to them.... makes you wonder. What 'is' it about Islam which entitles a man to have 'free reign' with the women he has captured as 'war booty' ?

Its quite notable this. Men can 'capture' women, (but only in 'defensive' actions.. (I wonder how many 'women' there are in invading armies? ) So.... one has to ask, 'where do the captive women come from ? ooops... now I get it.. 'defensive' Attacks.. thats it :)
Yep.. like Banu Qurayza... and various others.

Thanks Robert, you have interpreted my post correctly.
Ummyassin (sorry if I've misspelled, doing it from memory), it is grossly insulting in this culture to have your proferred hand rejected. It symbolises as Robert points out, that you are unclean and unworthy of respect. The point of my post is that I am genuinely prepared to respect any groups choice to wear, say, believe, eat, worship and think any way they like, but the same respect needs to be returned. If you cannot shake my hand, then we simply cannot do business. And, I will be hardpressed to think favourably of you, understandably, I think.
And what about the refusal to obey instructions from, or even look at a female teacher? This is not acceptable either. But it is not only Islam where this is problematic. I have sat in a meeting with a male Japanese client who refused to address any word I said to him and spoke only to my male (but junior) colleague. It was deeply insulting and quite bizarre. Needless to say, no useful business was done. It is not okay to treat someone rudely because of their religion, dress, age, race or gender, religious or cultural beliefs not withstanding. If you will not touch me, look at me or listen to me, I interpret this to mean you discount me as a human being. How else am I supposed to take it?

There might be a little confusion in the comments about shaking hands. Muslims are not barred from shaking hands with non-Muslims. The question concerns whether men may shake hands (or otherwise touch) with women, and whether women may shake hands with men -- which ones, on which occasion etc. Also before we get carried away and contemplate deporting Muslims for failing to shake hands, note that Orthodox Jews will not shake hands with those of a different sex (there is an interesting discussion of this question at http://www.aish.com/societyWork/work/The_Jewish_Ethicist_Discriminating_Against_Discrimination.asp).
My point is not whether this is acceptable or not, to whom and in what circumstances, but simply that this is not a peculiarly Muslim custom or requirement, as some of the comments seem to imply.

If I hold a dinner party, I could just serve bleeding steaks to everyone, because that's what we eat in my house. However, I think it is courteous to ask those I invite if there is something they don't eat, or drink -- EVEN IF they are guests in my house (which is not what Muslims and Jews are in Australia!).

Open Season on Muslim Women
By Robert Spencer
FrontPageMagazine.com | November 1, 2005

Can wife-beating be justified under any circumstances? According to some in Australia, yes - if the couple is Muslim.
The Australasian Police Multicultural Advisory Bureau has published and distributed 50,000 copies of an 82-page handbook for Australian police officers, directing them on how to deal with people from all the unfamiliar cultures that an Australian policeman may encounter. A Sikh, for example, may receive a three-day reprieve from arrest if the arresting officer happens upon him while he is reading his holy scriptures - a practice that takes fifty hours, and must not be interrupted. And Muslim husbands who beat their wives must be treated differently from other domestic violence cases, as a matter of cultural sensitivity: "In incidents such as domestic violence," says the handbook, "police need to have an understanding of the traditions, ways of life and habits of Muslims."

Muslim husbands, of course, can point to Qur'an 4:34 to justifying wife-beating: "...good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them..." This sanction has become culturally ingrained: the Pakistan Institute of Medical Sciences has determined that today over ninety percent of Pakistani wives have been struck, beaten, or abused sexually - for offenses on the order of cooking an unsatisfactory meal. Others were punished for failing to give birth to a male child.

Brides of Islam
The Australian, By Trudy Harris, August 6, 2005

Australian embassy Lebanon.

A 14-year-old girl had shown up on their doorstep alone, with her suitcases. Through tears, she said she wanted to return home to Australia to her mother, after being imprisoned at the home of her new husband's family.

She revealed to embassy staff she had arrived in Lebanon a year ago with her father, ostensibly for a holiday. But that was a ruse. Despite protests, she was married to an older man, a distant cousin.
"Dad just couldn't cope with Western life, the independence of Australian life," a government official with the case says. "He became concerned that his daughter may be running around with boys, so took her to Lebanon to protect her."

The embassy has handled 12 cases, seven of them involving minors, in the past two years. Australian teenagers fleeing arranged marriages set up by their parents -- ambassador Stephanie Shwabsky says, "each case is different, and involves intense negotiations with local officials and families. The cases that come to our attention are very serious. The young people involved are very upset and want our protection."

Arranged marriages are an important part of many Middle Eastern cultures, the practice has long existed in multicultural countries such as Australia. Concerns have arisen that marriages are being arranged in Australia for teenagers too young for such commitments.

Welfare workers say there are several hundred cases mostly in Sydney and Melbourne, of girls dropping out of school to get married. Although it varies from state to state, the average legal school-leaving age is 16. In Australia people under the age of 18 need a court order to marry legally.

Concern centres on Australian-Arab communities, although not all the teenagers involved are Muslim. Some girls happily consent to these arrangements. Australian embassy staff eventually put the 14-year-old girl on a plane back to her mother in Australia. The girl says her husband never touched her sexually and agreed to end the marriage. But other cases are not so simple, sparking long, bitter legal battles. ..."
At http://www.asiansexgazette.com/asg/middle_east/middleeast04news44.htm