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The Forum > Article Comments > WorkChoices: talk about separation of church and state! > Comments

WorkChoices: talk about separation of church and state! : Comments

By Rod Benson, published 28/10/2005

Rod Benson argues the churches have raised concerns about justice for vulnerable people under the new IR reforms.

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While I am not Christian or religious, I think some of these church leaders have been over the top with their criticism of the changes.

I am sure they are genuinely worried about family life, but they are silent on issues which are having an impact on families.

Where are is the condemnation of the divorce rate which is ripping apart many families. Surely this as worthy of criticism as workchoices.

Where is the criticism of the current Child Support system which encourages women (mostly) to deny access and men (mostly) to stiff on payments to their kids.

Ditto drugs, pokies or welfare dependence which actually impact families, not speculation about how industrial relations changes might impact on perhaps some of the vulnerable people.

Maybe these leaders have to speak out in public about IR because they can't attract the numbers to church to tell people directly.
The same can be said for the unions.

I suspect that is what the Hillsong guy was alluding to, he can speak to his burgeoning flock, while others need the media to get across the message they wish they could deliver from the pulpit to a wide audience.

t.u.s.
Posted by the usual suspect, Friday, 28 October 2005 12:31:09 PM
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An informative article with the exception of the introduction and conclusion.

"Perhaps [mainstream churches] will view [Harper’s appointment] as an opportunity to kill two birds (economic rationalist and evangelical Christian) with one stone" writes the good rev.

This is a cynical perspective.

"Already Anglican, Catholic and Uniting Church leaders have criticised the appointment". Well, not all of them.

Those that do are cynical that the appointment is designed to placate the churches.

Who claims to hold the high ground when it comes to cynicism?
Posted by David Latimer, Friday, 28 October 2005 12:43:00 PM
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Church leaders are in no way qualified to speak about the real world.
In order to become a church leader a person needs to have that peculiar state of mentality which allows speculation to be preached as fact.

Their opposition to any proposed legislation is their view through a small angle of perspective of the the real world.

They have, as we all have in a free society, freedom to express opinion but that opinion must be viewed for what it is--a narrow view.

If any of those church leaders who have spoken-out against the proposed industrial reform had instead had experience in the real world of industry, would their views be different? I say YES !

Industry, like everything, is evolutionary. Church leaders deny evolution.

We in Australia must evolve our industrial system-- we must free our system from the dogma, the them versus us system, which we inherited from 19th century England.
I know it can be done because I've seen it done-- but on the large scale it will not be done easily.

So, to church leaders ( and the political left) I say stop nit picking. Whatever the faults in this proposed legislation it is a step towards betterment for all Australians.
Posted by Gadfly, Friday, 28 October 2005 2:34:40 PM
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oh Dear G'fly: Where a church leader might deny evolution in the Darwinian sense I dont know many who deny the process of materialistic change in industry, the hard sciences or society as evolutionary.

And maybe their faith can be defined as specualtive and maybe they do preach it as fact - but they live in the real world, speak to real people.

I recollect other posts where you seem to consider some comments as coming from the uninformed - I say suffer the uninformed and narrow minded priests - we might learn a thing or two about humility.

I pray no one rids us of these meddlesome priests.
Posted by sneekeepete, Friday, 28 October 2005 3:01:07 PM
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I remember the days when visiting rock stars were asked their opinion on everything Australian in the vain hope that these demi-gods would have something wonderful to tell us. Unfortunately, they could only sing and play the guitar.

Now we ask church leaders for their opinion on everything from economics to biology,topics which many are at a loss to say anything sensible. Do they really understand the complex thought behind these reforms? I guess not.

Not everyone wants to be home more often. Some see work as a social event.

The unions,worried about their own survival, have proven completely useless when you really need them for a individual issue. They are not there to protect anyone unless one is employed in an industry "noticed" by the media. Now they need our support.

Maybe John Howard should just turn up at every photo opportunity do nothing and have everyone think he was a good bloke, leaving the mess for the next person to deal with. Well, why not?. Bob Carr did.
Posted by Atman, Friday, 28 October 2005 4:21:53 PM
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I'm a rational economist and have done 30 years of voluntary spiritual work. There's no contradiction. Both involve developing a clear understanding of the field, the options available and the likely outcomes of different actions; and applying oneself in the light of one's knowledge and understanding. As with Ian Harper, my moral code permeates my whole life, I don't set it aside in any context. And I suspect that I know more about spiritual matters than most clerics do about economic policy.

The function of a cleric is, to an extent, as an intermediary to god. Well, I don't believe in intermediaries in that field, I think each of us must find our own salvation through self-realisation. But as clerics exist, I think that their primary - arguably only - role should be to help people to find god, to realise the Kingdom of Heaven within, to pursue a proven path to wisdom and purity. The more successful clerics are at that, the less will they have to concern themselves with problems of society, which arise from greed and ignorance which is dispelled by spiritual development.
Posted by Faustino, Friday, 28 October 2005 5:46:51 PM
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