Des Moore fails to make a case that 2 million Australians are looking for low paying jobs returning an income between the $11K welfare payment and the $25K minimum wage. It is an assertion devoid of merit similar to the Federal Govt. assertion that thousands of new jobs will be created when employers obtain the ability to terminate unfairly. I suspect the agenda here is to have the thousands of Australians currently struggling on the minimum wage, to struggle a bit harder.

I agree with the claim of "Gutless Reform", but in the complete opposite direction of Des Moore. It disgusts me that politicians seem to make policy decisions with only their and their allies interests at heart. Industrial relations changes are being made under a liberal philosophy of 'choice', but as an employee on the bottom rung (and a full-time student), it is hard to envisage what 'choice' I have under such a lazzez faire system. Further, I don't want anyone to tell me that the changes are for the economic betterment of Australia, as profits will be reduced if a workplace is being more regularly turned over, and staff are trying to work out how they are going to pay their bills instead of concentrating on their work. Sure, there may be profits, but I have a gut feeling they won't end up in my pocket, and even if they do, I'll lose out through inflation.

Timmy83

Yours is the most refreshingly innocent comment I have read in these forum pages in ages. Your not amongst friends here Timmy, except for myself of course. You have “accidentlied” into the propaganda department of the Liberal Party. They pride themselves of their sophistication, but really , its all in their own mind. You are beginning to comprehend even at your young age, that in Australia there are two basic groups. One group inherits their wealth and status from Daddy.
They believe that such wealth is deserved and thus, with the deserving status comes automatically, intelligence. In addition to their status comes the automatic right of education. Not just any education. The best Daddy can afford. You see Timmy everything has a price. So a measure of intelligence in any objective sense is not applicable to them. They simply deserve the breaks. In short Timmy, their crowning jewel is their inherited right to RULE.
Oh, I must be fair here Timmy83. It is not to say they do not pretend to have the necessity to work for it. Son or Daughter may often be seen slumming it on the odd shift at Mc Donald’s. They are easy to pick though Timmy. There is a certain look about desperation that these folk instinctively recognize and recoil from. That trait is passed on too. You will notice the same reaction with Factory management, Bank managers (have you tried for a loan while in receipt of social security)? And the list goes on. But I am sure you know the point I am getting at.
Then of course Timmy83, there are the rest of us. Well , sounds like you know where that’s at.Only honesty amongst thieves Timmy83.

Is there for honest poverty
that hangs his head and all that………
the coward slave we turn aside
we do be pure for all that……(Howard and co)
and all that and all that
their tinsel show for all that….(Howard and co)
but the honest man though all so pure
is king of men for all that………….(The rest of us )
…………Robby Burns

Diver dan I thought I 'accidentified' (or whatever) into the realm of union denial when i read your post. If it wasn't for conservative governments in this country the economy would be in ruins. Now before you rant and rave about how unfair everything is, I'd like to point a few things out.

Firstly the Howard government stood up to militant unionism from the word go-most notably by backing Corrigan on the wharves. Anybody would have thought the world was ending. However in effect all Howards was doing was preparing the wharves for increased global competition. For example in Asia containers were being unloaded at four times the rate in Australian ports-despite lower pay, obsolete equipment, poorer training, and a lesser working environment. Explain how this was unfair? It would have been more unfair if the government had left Australian wharves to rot due to union stoppages that had nothing to do with workers rights and everything to do with factional consolidation in the labour party.

Secondly nobody should live in poverty in this country (except perhaps for the mentally ill).Welfare is more than enough to put rooves over heads, and food in mouths. If people want more all they have to do is work for it-jobs are everywhere! Working is exactly what the industrial reforms will encourage. Private enterprise can grow if it isn't too frightened to employ people when conditions are right. The unions are only against this because they can't stand the idea of not being able to manipulate industry.

Finally to the 'innocent' university student above. Working while at university will be the best thing you ever did- i thought i was doing it tough at university while I worked but becoming full time in the 'real world' is far harder. It is unfortunate that not everybody can earn $100k a year but that is the way it is. It is unclear if it's fair but that's life. One thing has been made clear though-if I work hard and don't whinge about how tough life is nobody is going to sack me.

Diver Dan, working hard wont save u from the sack. Just ask the 1,400 hard workers about to be sacked at GMH in Adelaide. Seems they have produced to much and have to go. As for the antics of Mr Corrigan, i recall even his own family distanced themselves from his actions. Diver Dan the rich desire the working poor, come up for air and work it out.

wre

Why on earth should mentally ill people live in poverty?

I have been a mental health nurse since 1978. I have seen the sadness and poverty of long term sufferers of mental illness. It is shameful. It is degrading. It is sad. It is abhorrent. It is not fair. It is an enditement of our society. It is tragic. It is unforiveable.

Kay