Fact--AWA provide lesser income and conditions than Awards. Fact-- The argument that minimum wage increases cost jobs, has never withstood scrutiny. Fact-- This Federal Govt. has argued agaist every minimum wage increase whilst in power.Fact--Minimum wage earners would be $2K+ a year worse off if the Gov. could prove its arguements in the AIRC. Fact-- Workers dont get a choice about entering AWA's.Fact--Most AWA are pattern agreemants, and no negotiation takes place with an employee.Fact-- The Gov. believes that it is ok for workers to be dismissed unfairly. Fact--There was no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. Fact-- There were no children overboard. I could go on, we on the Left are happy to discuss the FACTS.

Fact - It is currently very easy to dismiss a worker on the most spurious of claims - without the new reforms. I know, it has happened to me.

Fact - The means to sack people w/out fair reason will create increased staff turnover. There is no evidence to suggest that it will create MORE jobs. Interestingly with increased staff turnover, training costs will increase for employers - hardly rational nor economic.

Fact - Welfare is insufficient to cover mortgage, food, travel and clothing expenses. It is also a horrific, demoralising treadmill.

Fact - The people in favour of IR reforms tend not to be unemployed, underpaid or people in touch with the reality of what these reforms really mean - ergot they are not effected by these changes therefore feel free to pontificate from afar.

Fact - caring about people does not necessarily make a person left wing or even right wing - just want the world to be a fairer place.

Finally something we all agree on. The world isn't fair, and caring about people isn't monopolised by the left or right. What we don't agree on is the fact that the ALP and Australian unions do nothing to help those they supposedly care so much about, and don't have the intestinal fortitude or intellectual talent to come up with any sollutions. Instead the left mounts exasperating campaigns against clearly beneficial programmes such as work for the dole.

It's already an unbackable bet that the left will oppose Turnbull's new tax proposals. Now there's a man with talent and surprise, surprise he's rich! He didn't get their because of any silver spoon either, but hey he's already the left's favourite tall poppy. Now back to facts. (a)welfare payments in Australia constitute a larger proportion of the GDP than in any other country. (b)Australia is the highest taxed nation in the developed world. (c) 2+2=4...

Larger tax cuts are far preferable to increasing welfare payments any way you look at it. Economically different skills are valued at different levels by the market. Australia is fast risking losing those with highly valued skills because as a nation we ask them to contribute too much to the welfare of people who for whatever reason stopped pulling their weight. Economically this is unsustainable, and will only lead to the lower income earners of society being worse off.

Wre,do u think the Hardie asbestosis sufferers think the unions are useless,i dont believe Hardies share that view. I am sure Hardies wish you were right (pardon the pun). However you have me convinced by your clever arguements. Lets get rid off all those pesky laws that protect employees. Most of those asbestosis victims would have died of starvation years ago if Hardies hadnt employed them.

I would rather we paid a welfare subsidy to people on low wages instead of paying it to people who are not working at all. I would support a significant reduction in the minimum wage because I believe it would create new jobs. Jobs that are currently unviable.

I agree with Des Moore and John Humphreys

Terje, Have you any credible evidence you can share with us concerning your beliefs, that an army of wage slaves would be good for the nation. What are those jobs? Cleaning your shoes?