BD,

On Women and Islam: (All part 4) legislates women rights in keeping their maiden name, financial entity, right to for inheritance, to be supported by the husband. It goes even in defining that a man cannot ask to date her in secret. They are equally mentioned in every verse as equal believers, which I have not seen in NT or OT.

The verse you chose deals with the obligation and punishment of the wrongdoers to their families (the word “Nashez” could mean anything such as abusive, beating children, etc.). It is not a ‘command’ for a man to beat his wife.
The Quran is contextual and cannot be taken literally and the meaning must be interpreted in today’s format. We have a social justice system that punishes abusive men or women.
Islam is not a blind faith religion though some people think of it that way. Every few verse in the Quran, Muslims are asked to think.

While on the subject BD,

What u r doing is not vilification but just lacks of the basics of a decent argument.

a. Why do you always need to compare to Islam: why don’t you have any confidence in your religion by itself?

b. When you compare, picking up 2 words or half a verse is a deceitful approach and lacks the basic respect for the audience. Can I ask you to be more...truthful in the future if you insist in quoting from Quran?

Regards

Reason
Persons calling themselves “Christian,” with a grab for power over territory committed the Crusades, but it wasn’t based in Jesus Messiah teaching regarding social responsibility.

Quote, ”The original invasion (leading to the crusades) was Christian. … They started the whole shebang”.

The message of Christ was personal choice and faith, not enforced belief over others lives by Religious State. The Crusades were unlike the teachings of Christ and his followers were encouraged to persevere the severe persecution withour reprisal[1Peter].

The Roman Church State as the Islamic State wishes to control personal belief and practise, (http://freedom.homemail.com.au/). Jesus teachings are about being a servant of God in community. He encountered disfavour with Jewish leaders they planned recapture of their State from Rome. Jesus however accepted the Romans, the underclass Samaritans for neighbourly service to the injured: upheld the faith of a gentile woman of Zarephath in Sidon, and king Naaman of Syria an opponent [Luke 4: 24 – 28].

Jesus kingdom is ”not of this world”; power struggles of State: it is about personal spiritual relationship with God. Where God is worshipped in character and behaviour by heart, mind and body.

Quote, “It also seems a common claim by Christian proponents that freedom and democracy are benefits of Christianity. Not so... freedom and democracy came from pre-Christian times, where ‘pagan’... The ideas of freedom came well before Christ and were fought for regardless of the religion of the time or State.”

Personal freedom is an eternal divine principle emphasised by Christ. Judea-Christian morality and ethics have influenced modern Western society, undisputed.

Quote, “Arab Islamics gave us advanced mathematics, explored the movements of the stars and planet and taught the West Chess. They traded in rare spices and silks, some not seen before. They introduced new arts, dance, metalworking, story telling, all which became incorporated into the culture of the West, as clothing, jewellery and literature.”

The religion of Islam didn’t give us such benifits it was scholars in natural science and commerce. The things you state are natural sciences not religion. Religion deals with interpersonal relationships, expression and spiritual dimensions

FELLOW HUMAN
its nice to see your continued non hostile responses.. I'm a bit worried, you might lul me into becoming blaze :)or.. guilt trip me into not wanting to offend you even if it is about truth :)

The section on beating is apparently not a command, but it is an authorization a permission. In reality the 'whack' still feels the same.

But without revisiting all the issues u responded to, I want to make reference to your belief that the Quran is 'contextual' , I find this difficult to accept in this section, because of the very nature of the 'New Islamic Society' which was supposedly being formed.

"Contextual" understandings of scripture which are valid (for Islam or Christianity) would be those where the way of speaking of the day (idiomatic) is clear in the text. Example "If you eye sins, gouge it out, ur hand sins, cut it off,.. u cannot follow me unless you 'hate' your mother father etc"....

What cannot be 'contextual' are commands which are clear "I now give this command. (Not I but the Lord)..." as Paul said sometimes or.. "On this matter, I have no command from the Lord, but I give my opinion" he said on another.

Just so Sura 23 on 'The Believers' is like the 10 commandments, "You will do this and this and this" etc.. its not open to 'contextualization'

Be all that as it may.... I've been thinking more of your own psychology lately.. your education, family background etc..ur 'wilderness' period and return to Islam/roots.

All I can say is that my heart goes out to you, my prayers are for you, and I can assure u of God's love, because he knows your heart, I trust that if you ever feel Christ is knocking at the door if it, you will open :)
blessings

Hope this fits in,

The German philosopher, Immanuel Kant declared near the turn of the 17th century, when he became unhappy with the tactics of Napoleon, that there is now revealing proof that from now on, not one man, nor one nation, should ever be trusted to rule the future world. Better a Federation of Nations, selected by all peoples of the globe.

Instead, we have now a unipolar nation with all the weaknesses that Kant himself had stressed. A nation which declares it has the power to forbid all other nations opposing this power, revealing itself as a reborn Rome which totally destroyed Carthage, and every person, and every building and everything the culture had represented, captured states like Israel allowed to keep their puppet monarchs. How much will the future Iraq, be like those Roman subject states, though with US troops withdrawn, and a Dyarky democracy managed from the White House, with Israeli nuclear rockets right close by Iraq and ready.

We note the present White-House lineup, with Dick Cheney, not George Bush, much first in line - Cheney with Paul Wolfowitz masterminding the whole shebang since Gulf-War One.

Along with other neo-cons, American Zionists and ex-oil-executives such as Condoleeza Rice, and to not forget to add again that the presence of corporation man, Dick Cheney, means that all the US slaughter from up high, has been mostly for Iraqi oil.

And if it comes to prove that the Iraqis will be double-crossed, our sons and daughters will inherit a world not ruled by British gunboat diplomacy, but by US missiles all nuclear tipped, said by Americana, the only way an angry world can be kept in order.

World problems have reached the stage that they cannot be fixed by modern missiles, but by moral understanding. Our classic English grammar has become all mixed up - terms like “liberalism and rationalism”, when applied to freedom, do not mean a unipolar Americana capitalist corporate global takeover, but a “moderation in all things”, followed by the “freedom for all the peoples of our world to share and share alike.”

What can change a life, a community a nation a world?
Read the story of a KKK Grand Wizard on Andrew Denton 5th September 2005.

Life is full of journeys but rarely do any of us travel as far as Johnny Lee Clary. A former leader of the Ku Klux Klan, now a Christian preacher, his journey from a world of hate to one of tolerance has been remarkable indeed.
http://www.abc.net.au/tv/enoughrope/transcripts/s1453904.htm