Bosk,
Can you identify by archeology the existence of your demigod or by a contemporary document that identifies the people actually believed in him as a human person. I realise you delight in negative comments rather than to post higher values. I would have over forty volumes on my shelves dealing with gods of Babylonian, Cannanite, Hittite, Persian, Roman, Greece, Egyptian, Asia Minor, Phoenicia, Philistines, Assyria; so as you assume I am somehow ignorant and believe in pagan falsehoods.

As a Christian I personally identify with the revelation of wisdom that gives me dynamic for living and not merely in historical myths. The theatres of the hyprocrites [actors] presented many stories to present hope and aspirations to the people. Many of the stories were presented in drama scripts, and were not the devoted beliefs in actual gods. The story of Job in the OT falls into this catagory, as it is a struggle of gnosticism with monotheism. The gods did not actually exist. Though there were events that inspired the myths they presented a higher principle in the drama.

For instance: The practise of casting out demons was also used by the monotheistic Jews as well as Jesus to demonstrate to the person that believed in demons that they were now free. It is similar to telling a child who believes there are evil spitits under the bed, they have gone because you cast them out. The physical act of release reinforced in the mind new faith that the demons had gone.

On Jesus being worshipped as the Son of God. The true worship of God is focused in character that expresses admiration for what we believe is in the image of God. The humanity of Jesus was not God or made him the son of God - it was his character, attitudes and selfless actions. From your conclusions on this can we assume you have no values of character that you admire as the highest and greatest of humanity. This is how God is incarnate in human persons - Jesus was that person.

Thank you, Boaz...

Trinity.... Yes, I may be playing the same tune all the time, and maybe even too much. But I think the issue is important. I have focused on this because it is illustrative of the problem that Islam brings to the table. Do you think we have problems now? Wait five years!

Yes, I do vilify Islam - and why not? Islam, not individual Muslims. My opinion is that Muslims are not really peaceful, but mostly indifferent - but that goes for most people too. I also believe that most Muslims are intellectually dishonest, because of things like this issue. I think that Islam is oppressive and intolerant, based upon my readings and observations. These are personal opinions and I have my reasons.

Islamic hate and intolerance is a problem we must all face. The root of the problem is the character of their leader (my opinion). If a Muslim cannot condemn torture done by their great prophet, as clearly described in their own writings on numerous occasions, then why oh why should I believe them on anything? If murder, slavery, lying and torture and torture are OK for old Mohammed, and he is considered a great "example" (PBUH my ass), well you figure it out...

Has anybody answered my question? Have I not given them a chance? Did you see Irfan or Bashir jump at the chance to clear this up? Maybe they can't. Maybe they don't want to even think about it. I guess it is painful, but so are hot nails in the eyes.

You know I have a life. I collect maps, I hike, I read history books, I do a lot of things that are more pleasant than debating Muslims - not that it is much of a challenge. But it needs to be done

Continued...

Trinity, if you want to criticize me for what I have said, be my guest. I can take it and be sure that I have many faults and failings. If you or any Muslim wants to condemn Moses, King David, Jesus, the Apostles Paul, Peter, and Mary, or George Washington, Sharon, Howard or Bush based on any of their actions and words you also have my permission.

In the West we can do this and it is what makes us great, and it is part of what makes so many Muslims want to come here. The problem is that they come and they bring their hate and anger with them, and soon trouble starts (We have enough problems already without their help, thank you!). Then they blame us and everybody else - everybody except themselves and their faith - for their problems. Muslims refuse to consider even the most obvious facts, like TORTURE = EVIL.

Please don't tell me that asking about murder and torture is a "hate-filled rant." Also I never mention my "religion", and I would never argue from a religious viewpoint. I am a simple guy and my logic is simple, too. If a guy named Joe did what Mohammed did, everybody would agree that Joe was a thug! You would not Joe to babysit your kids, and you wouldn't leave Joe alone with your wife - or young daughter.

There is nothing difficult here. It is all common sense. I am correct on this (torture = evil) and I will not give an inch.

Think about it....

John aka kactuz

bosk: If you know that the person you mention really did as you claimed then you had better worship him/her.
But let's face it is unmitigated garbage isn't it!
We still have pretend saviours today don't we.
Some men & women have claimed to have seen aliens and even been on their spaceships.
Others have seen and talked with fairies,gnomes and goblins.
There are over 300 prohpecies about Jesus in the O/T all were fulfilled by the way.
Jesus is mentioned by the ruling Romans.
He, Jesus, existed as a God/Man and He still exists as you will know one day. numbat

Please all of you,

If its still about terrorism, why do we have to make a religous crusade out of it? As was said back in the colonial days, why don't we just live and let live? Why haven't we learnt a lesson about charging into other people's territory as we are still doing in the Middle-East? Just put ourselves in the Arab's position and try to think what way we would be fighting back? Just as the Tamil Tigers are still fighting back in Sri-Lanka, having lost more of their people as suicide bombers than any Muslim country.

Also we don't have to want to fight on the side of the Muslims to think this way, just a bit of understanding, and less knocking their religion all the time. Maybe this is what the young Jesus meant when he said to try and love your enemies. Not that we have to be religous about it, because it should relate to what our Aussies believe is a fair go, to try and stop stealing from our global neighbours, the Middle-East Arabs.

And if we all started to think this way, especially our powers that be, maybe we'd be surprised how everything would right itself.

George C, WA - Bushbred

Bushbred, thank you for your reasonable and down to earth comments. Unfortunately, you will find that they fall upon deaf ears. There is an element (clearly represented on this particular thread) where a request to treat muslim people as human beings is simply like waving a red flag.

Why write about tolerance when there is an opportunity to patronise (trinity, dear), insult (trinity your (sic) an idiot) - never once do the authors of these not so cogent responses understand that vitriol never won converts.

I guess feeding on the festering pile of hatred is more fun - doesn't solve anything, merely alienates people, but it must be entertaining because look how they persist in their mud slinging.