kactuz

"I have yet to meet a Muslim that can be honest about their dear prophet. Believe me, I have tried, as you folks may have noticed..."

All I have ever noticed is your incessant vilification of Islam on this forum. I doubt you would be able to hear an honest opinion in the storm of your hatred for Islam.

Take note I am not Muslim - I am an athiest, but I know unremitting bias when I see it kactuz - it is simply impossible to have a reasonable dialogue with someone spewing out constant hate-filled rants.

I except this thread will turn into another 'my religion is better than yours' diatribe - going nowehere, achieving nothing.

Trinity dear....

Can I just offer a word here. Re John, and his comments.

We should be absolutely clear on what he is saying..and why.

1/ He is attacking the 'prophet' of Islam, who he charges with 'Theft, murder, torture, rape and mass murder'

2/ The only issue here of importance, is whether these claims are true or not.

We can discuss Christianity separately.

I reallllly don't understand why you continually say he is 'Villifying' Islam. We are not talking about a small thing, we are talking about a billion+ people who have built their religion on this man.

So, it is vital to determine if Johns claims are true, valid or not.

Given that all he said is taken from public record, freely available Islamic documentation, and with abundant corroboration between documents, and without any manifest bias to just 'find fault for the sake if it' ... on the contrary, he is probably as concerned as I am about the future of Australia, and our very safety and well being.

I DO understand your sense of fair play, support the underdog, and be kind to others. I totally applaud you for this. My only problem is that with regard to Islam(Mohammed) you don't look at the facts as they stand.
If John said the same things about Buddhism, I would be the first to defend it, because there is no factual basis for saying such things
Most other 'religions' are in the same boat. Its either factual or not.

Now, given the factual reliable truthful nature of these events John has alluded to, it remains to us, to properly understand the implications for our own society, and how to correctly perceive this religion. (at its roots)

If you can show any error in what John (or myself) have claimed, then bring your well supported view to the debate. If not, then please try to come to grips with the fact that we are speaking truth, which.. last time I checked.. 'will set (and keep) us free'

P.S. hope you find work soon.. I'm sure u will.

Whether I am believed or not - again I state that I do not hate moslems, I may pity them but I do not hate them. I hate what this pagan religion stands for. I hate the threat it poses to civilisation, to democracy, to Australia.
Deedat was a hate filled moslem, he came to this Christian country and vilified Christianity, and did so on Good Friday. The Australian Government even threatened to deport him.
Many say that 'ordinary' moslems are different from the hard liners. If ordinary moslems do not follow the line when ordered then they are slain along with "unbelievers" or all who are not moslem.
Now a few choice excerpts from the koran. This book is the only guide to moslems and they must obey its directives.
QUOTE: "Fighting is prescribed for you, and you dislike it. But it is possible that you dislike a thing which is good for you, and you love a thing, which is bad for you. But allah knows, and you know not 2:216" This could be aimed at those 'ordinary' moslems.
QUOTE: "Then fight and slay the pagans wherever you find them, seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem of war. 9:5"
There is so much more in the same vane, moslems detest and despise us and wish to kill or convert us, according to their hate filled koran.Am I suggesting that we destroy them - NO! but what I do ask is that we see them for what they are.
To those who rubbish Christianity you also are among the unbelievers. You will have to convert to islam or be destroyed or perhaps be made slaves. read their book -it is all written there.
Prior to WW2 Hitler wrote a book which the civilised world did not read much to their later pain. numbat

To Philo, numbat & co
Unfortunately christianity has many links with its pagan past.
Here's just a few of over 300.

1)There was long before jesus a pagan demigod who was worshipped as the Son of God.

2) He was born on the 25th of December & his birth was observed by shepherds.

3) He turned water into wine at a wedding feast.

4) healed the sick, exorcised spirits, provided miraculous meals & calmed the waters for his followers.

5) He died as a sacrifice to redeem the sins of the world.

6) He rose again three days later.

sound familiar? The main problem is the vast majority of the myths surrounding this guy were formed several hundred years before Jesus was supposed to have been born. So either we have an incredible number of coincidences that defy belief or christianity adopted some pagan elements from myths that were already in existence. Your choice.

What poppycock, nonsense, garb, intellectual dishonesty....does it make one feel good to spout out nonsense they know to be untrue?

Darl-Al-Harb? Jihad? Dhimmitude? Sharia Law? Until your leaders condemn the utter barbarity of these Islamic tenets, teachings, rituals, concepts, you will never be believed!

I find such articles insulting to the utmost, and quite frankly, sickening. To portray Islam as a peaceful religion can never stand up to scientific analysis of history. Did you all know that Syria used to be 100% Christian? Then the Muslims came, now Syria, just as every sick Islamic nation, discriminates against this minority, bombs their churches, beheads their priests.

Muslims must remove their leaders, those like Hilali, who have praised jihad, suicide bombings, blamed gang-rape on western dress (one of the highest rates of gang rapes is in Pakistan, but given how few women would actually go to the police, imagine how bad it really is!, oh, and every Islamic diaspora in the west has gang rape within, suggesting a cultural phenomenon, perhaps misoginy? Oh no, don't day that? You racist you!) yet not only do they not remove them, they support them when our media attacks them! Why no Muslims protesting out the front of Sheik Feiz' mosque, the coward who tried to cover up his statement that non-Muslim women deserve to be raped. Muslims cower away from their true beliefs whenever we ask, why not stand up for your principles?

Sharia Law is barbaric, and I personally love hearing about insurgents in Iraq, who wish to institute an Islamic state in Iraq, who are killed. I believe we should do worse, as the Iraqi's are ungrateful $%$^$^&** who don't deserve our help.

Muslims peaceful......what a joke. Your prophet was a paedophile, murderer, massacre hungry, caravan looting lunatic. One day you'll all wake up, I'm just sick to the stomach that we in the west have to hear your version of the reformation....go have it back home you unworthy ingrates.....

Trinity, your an idiot. Typical I suppose, as I remember school was dominated by radical left-wing teachers who tried to brainwash us into believing that only whites can be racist. It may help you to see that it is fact many Muslims that are NAZI's if you pretend they are white. Pretend, listen, then hear the words, and you'll be right.

Boaz, as usual you are a classic. I thank you humbly for all the links you have put here in your posts, it's saved me looking for them!

Look people, I'm not a Christian, although I went to a Christian school. I've read widely on Islam, and to be blunt, Mohammad comes nowhere near Christ's philosophy. Christ was the real deal, his values were correct. Mohammad, and Trinity, read up on him, don't just rant, he was nothing other than a tribal savage, who had a six year old for a wife.

Grow up people, Muslims can indeed be racist bigots, and to be honest, most of the time, many are. Trinity have you noticed how Muslim community never condemns their own ? How many Muslims have held protests out the front of the radical clerics mosques ? None! I wonder why...............they agree!