I can only echo Garra's words. I have been dismayed and appalled at much of the racist sentiments expressed by many posters at this forum.

Australia cannot contribute at a global level with this level of blind hatred.

As Trinity has posted - there is only one planet that can sustain us and it is by default - multicultural.

Xena, garra it appears to me that there are two main positions for opposing multiculturalism
- blind hatred. True racism.
- a belief that it is not working. Fear etc.

The first position is one that no amount of debate or discussion will resolve. We just have to hope that their kids grow up a bit more tolerant.

I'm willing to assume that a proportion of the second are able to consider the possibility that there may be ways of addressing their concerns. Lumping everybody with concerns about multiculturalism in the same boat is probably counter productive.

It might be more relevant to talk about the places multiculturalism is working and what factors break down the ethnic clinging over time.

Do those factors apply to the Muslim community (especially those being taught that they cannot have non muslim friends)?

Are there real issues we need to address or is this like most immigration concern of the past a passing issue which will settle over time?

I don't have the knowledge to answer some of these questions and would like to see open debate about some of those issues between those trying to reach understanding.

As for myself I have greek and tasmanian neighbours and a couple of my best friends originated in Latin America. Not a broad multicultural life. I can't think of any Muslims that I know socially so I am interested to hear from those with a better understanding of the issues.

R0bert

I sometimes wonder whether the US is a good or a bad example to use in the multiculturism debate. It always seems to be used in the context - "look at America, they know how to do it, everyone salutes the flag every day...", but is that really the case? Certainly, my own contacts over there seem to have pretty much the same ambivalence towards immigrants that we (as a society) do, and I have no reason to believe they are unrepresentative.

I felt that Seang rather overstated the case when he said "[i]n the United States, even if you are black you see yourself as "African American" or you are "Latino American", all the time the common thread of identity runs through them". This is a very liberal-rose-coloured view of the reality I have seen over there.

The mood seems to be that there is some sort of fine line that can be drawn, one side is "they can come here as long as they behave like us" and the other is "they are all welcome, and it's up to us to accept them as they are". I don't see it being as simple as that, if only because there are quite a few differences in the definition of the "us" we want them to behave like, when it comes to describing an Australian.

Garra,

for once you actually make some sense. Well done. I understand your point.
You correctly observe that there is an 'ingrained racism' in the inherited Anglo_European dominant culture. So, may I suggest that the solution to that problem is to address it.
I have never argued for any 'racial superiority' or even 'cultural superiority' of the Anglo-European dominant/prevailing culture. But I HAVE argued that it should be respected.

Have none of you been in a group where you know your position in the peck order, and suddenly some other person comes in, and usurps that position, leaving you now marginalized ? :) come on, be honest. Did you 'enjoy' that experience ? Well extrapolate that to a 'cultural' level and you get my drift I'm sure.

Anyone who seeks to marginalize a dominant culture is playing with social fire I'd say.

PREVAILING CULTURE AND RACIAL HARMONY... is possible. It will only occur when minor cultures recognize they are in the midst of and respect the prevailing. Garra, being the Malaysia expert that you are .. would be aware of the issue of racial discrimination in the public service and the policy of placing Malays/Muslism in key positions. I support the idea of Malays in the key military positions (due to race riots in 69)
but simply giving the choice/key jobs to malays across the public servie sector is blatant cultural greed.
If they placed more emphasis on 'maintaining stability' by giving just key positions I wouldn't gripe, but it goes much further than that.

So, the idea should be that while maintaining a cultural dominance, job opportunities should not be looked on as virtual 'war booty'.

Xena,

there you go 'hu-hum' AGAIN with the promotion of the 'hate' thing. (getting a bit weary mate) so you don't rate a response this time.

PERICLES. Very true, about who the 'us' is, in our case, we can point to certain statistics, but to be truthful, most of that 'us' is blithely unaware of their cultural characteristics because until recently they have rarely been challenged.
This is changing.

PEOPLE 'Multiculturalism'

In 1967, I was 19, and in the RAAF. One of our guys had been mercilessly beaten almost to death by some 'Sharpies'. Those old enough to remember, will know that it was impossible to goto a train station, bus station or pretty much anywhere publically without being in fear of your life and limb from that group. They were EVERYwhere and there were thousands of them.

One night, our group of Airforce guys (around 100) decided we would try to do something about it, and in full uniform we went into Melbourne, patrolled the streets, looking for Sharpies. Those we found were 'dealt with' in very convincing terms. The police we encountered had only one request. "Just leave enough to arrest".

Anarchy had overtaken us.

This is 2005

if you read nothing else I've ever written here, please at least read THIS:

http://www.quadrant.org.au/php/archive_details_list.php?article_id=581

Then, I'd value any and all reactions, specially from 'gentle' Robert.
From Xena and Trinity.

If you can stand to read this without being sickened to your stomach,ashamed of your country (specially NSW) then please use your keyboard and say something to someone about this, who matters.

Remember the French vs Algeria soccer friendly?

http://www.brookings.edu/fp/cusf/analysis/islam.htm