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The Forum > Article Comments > Muslim leaders, it’s time to get serious > Comments

Muslim leaders, it’s time to get serious : Comments

By Patrick Goodenough, published 2/8/2005

Patrick Goodenough argues it is time for Muslims to denounce terrorists and prevent mosques being used to spread bigootry and hatred.

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I hate to say this, but Patrick's analysis is just not good enough.

He basically tries to claim that popular Muslim support for Palestinian human rights is to be equated with terrorism.

A bit like me claiming that Joe Gutnick's and Daniel Pipes' criticism of Ariel Sharon shutting down Gaza settlements or Jewish community leadership silence over Israeli atricities is to be equated with Jewish chauvinism of the sort that led one rabbi to declare at the funeral of a Jewish terrorist: "The blood of a thousand Muslims does not even equate to one Jewish fingernail".

This is simplistic analysis. It is really an attempt to deflect criticism away from Israel, or to mix the issues of terror and Israeli atrocities.

Muslims must condemn terror. And they are condemning it. That Patrick does not see and recognise this fact whilst expecting to be taken seriously as a journalist is just not good enough.

Condemning teror must not equate with blind support for the actions of regimes seeking to erect walls between neighbours.

Sorry for the puns. I permit you to play games with my surname.
Posted by Irfan, Tuesday, 2 August 2005 10:47:41 AM
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I hate to say it, but his analysis is SPOT ON.

As I've repeated ad nauseum, its not the 'nice blokes' like you Irfan who are the problem its the Syrian Sheiks etc who blatantly insult our culture, laws and social structures, and tell us about 'Plans of action in place'.

Irfan. What is the Islamic community is doing about the rampant extortion of inner city clugbs they KNOW is going on, and by WHOM .. in the Auburn/Punchbowl area,the streets, the houses, the families, the names.

Do a check on the Jeff Fenech incident. Jeff is (allegedly)maliciously attacked by Khalid Nagi with a broken bottle along with for other muslims, at his CLUB..... why ? Then, 'miraculously' Jeff Fenech declares "The incident is behind me, no charges will be laid".... Irfan, we both know what is going on here. What is the Lakemba Mosque doing about it ? After all, its just up the road from Punchbowl and the Telopea st boys.

What is the Islamic leadership doing about Saleh Jamal who, after being convicted of shooting up the Lakemba police station, is bailed and joins a PRAYER group at the Mosque, and berates all of YOU for 'not being Islamic enough'! Then he flees bail and is arrested in Lebanon for terrorism.

To what level is the Islamic community ostracizing the gang racist rapists and their families .. one minute 55 yrs in Jail for racist rape, then some slippery lawyer gets them off !

When we see the punishment start to come thick and fast on these people, we might start supporting the Islamic leadership, or is it too cowed by the bully boy tactics of these men ?

When the Muslim community dishes out to its own,what it would dish out to we 'skippy/white trash'. You will have some credibility.

You know as well as I do, that the community could 'deal' with these people. WHY don't they ?

Irfan, you think we are 'fringe'..you need to get out more.
60 minutes, the CTF case. is changing this country in ways you would not dream of.
Posted by BOAZ_David, Tuesday, 2 August 2005 3:33:12 PM
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The article is spot on, but it's not enough. It's a common misconception that most Muslims are against terrorism, after 9/11 they were dancing in the streets in Merrylands. A large poll in Britain last week showed that 24% of Muslims support terrorism in Britain in some sense, with 6% of that saying they are right behind them. All our Islamic leaders are either total supporters of terrorism or at least sympathetic, to not be would be un-Islamic. This comes out in their Freudian slips, such as how Sheik Hilali, Keysar Trad, as well as many others, blamed the US foreign policy in Iraq for London's attack, and how when ex-kidnapped hostage Douglas Wood said his kidnappers were "arseholes", they said things like "Well they did feed him, give him medicine" which should show even the most extreme on the left that these guys are evil to the core, they probably laugh at home when a westerner is beheaded. It also explains why DVD's of westerners being beheaded in Iraq are selling like hotcakes in every Muslim town, can they all be extremists buying them? Of course Muslims won't condemn each other, Bakri is right, it is an act of apostacy. What I found outrageous is that as a white European, I've learnt that my culture, ie. the west, went through what Muslims will have to soon, some sort of reformation, as we did in the 1500's! How dare they come to our secular, open, tolerant lands, do nothing of those who preach hate in their community, apologise for terrorism, use our freedom of speech laws against us, and drag us through their violence. The west needs to untie fast. Italy has just banned the wearing of the burqa, good on them as its a sick symbol of oppression. We must do the same.
Posted by Benjamin, Tuesday, 2 August 2005 4:41:05 PM
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I saw a protest in Britain by Muslims supposedly demonstrating against terrorism in the wake of the London bombings. It turns out that they were really protesting against the British National Party? (a law abiding group with no ties to terrorism of any sort - figure that one out).
Posted by davo, Tuesday, 2 August 2005 4:44:14 PM
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BOAZ_David, I'll tell you what Muslim leaders are doing about their out of control, rampaging youth, who roam around in gangs of twenty at Darling Harbour on a Friday night, bashing white Australian males while they yell sexual obscenities at their girlfriends, if they don't attempt to rape them. Those like Irfan think something is being done in their community, what a joke....I saw Irfan, if it's the same one, on the Today show last week on some Muslim forum, where they all just peddled their own version of nonsense, although to be fair he didn't, and none of them let the only female there talk, I wonder why? Why didn't Irfan condemn that young Wassim, leader of Hizbut-Tahrir? I remember when Saddam was caught, Muslims everywhere were furious, an insult to Arab honour they said that a negro US soldier had his boot on Saddams head in the dirt, which shows their racism. To support Saddam because Christians who captured him is sick. The same occured after gulf war 1, with PR teams sent in to film Pakistani tanks, Jordanian soldiers,and others, to show their respective peoples that it was they who defeated Saddam, not the US. Apparently Arabs like to feel strong the narrator said. This is how they're societies are, tribalistic & violent, but impotent & weak compared to the west.

They should never have been brought here, unless under a total assimilation policy. How can we ever accept Muslims when they consider Sharia Law to be the laws set down by God to govern earth? A system which even the weak, impotent United Nations has called barbaric.

Anyway, about what they are doing? They have been pressuring for years to have statistics regarding crime fall under the categories of caucasion for middle eastern people. The ABS has tabulated data, and I've got a graph that shows now caucasion crime way out of control because they are included.These ethnic leaders, ethnocentric to the core, who wish to remain seperate in every regard, want to hide their identity regarding crime.
Posted by Benjamin, Tuesday, 2 August 2005 5:13:51 PM
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Irfan,I have followed your postings for quite a while. I thought that you were a person with whom one could have a dialogue. Alas, I am proven wrong. Your unbalanced talk of Israeli "atrocities" and the funeral of a "Jewish terrorist" shows that you are no different to those who seek Israel's destruction, such as Hamas.
Posted by Ari Ben Canaan, Tuesday, 2 August 2005 10:29:46 PM
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It sounds like this forum is becoming a circus for various Christian and Jewish forms of al-Qaida. Well, i hope you animals behave yourselves. I must go as I have a normal job and a normal life.
Posted by Irfan, Wednesday, 3 August 2005 1:56:05 AM
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It will not happen. Muslims cannot be serious about condemning terror and still be Muslims. After much thought I have come to the conclusion that most Muslims are not peaceful. A better word for them would be INDIFFERENT. They do not care about others; they want to be seen as tolerant, but refuse to be tolerant. The fact is that condemning terror is easy – and it doesn’t work. As long as there is a large group of people out there filled with hate and anger, and who find in their religion justification for their actions, the terror will continue, and Muslims will condemn it, and there will be more bombings, and Muslims will condemn them (wink) also and then there will be beheadings, which Muslims will likewise condemn (wink), and so on. Muslims condemning terror is not working, so there must be something else….

I also have no faith in even moderate Muslims, because they are in denial. They refuse to see that Islam has serious philosophical and ethical problems. For example, I had asked Irfan if a man that hideously tortures a man to death could be considered a “good person” (see verse 261 at http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/052.sbt.html) All I wanted was a ‘yes’ or ‘no’, but Irfan did not answer my post. The fact is that he can’t answer it, because the implications of either reply are damning. A ‘no’ means he can’t honestly be a Muslim, a ‘yes’ means he is, like his prophet, immoral.

Kactuz John
Posted by kactuz, Wednesday, 3 August 2005 4:20:03 AM
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(Continued....)

So how can we live with people that does’t share our values of equality and freedom? Just look at countries where Islam dominates and how they treat other religions, women, gays, etc...! How can we dialogue with people who cannot bring themselves to see the obvious? If the Koran says “Kill all the infidels wherever you find them” and “beat your wives’ (and many other such passages) Muslims must accept that there is there an interpretation of Islam in which brutality, murder and terror are not only justified, but encouraged. At that point, Muslims have no right to say that that the ‘peaceful’ interpretation is any more valid than the ‘jihad’ version. In fact, it appears that the so-called peaceful version being served up to the West is nothing more than the old and honored Islamic doctrine of Al-taquiya (deception).

So, save your energy and breath. Muslims condemning terror is a waste of time. It doesn’t work. I have the feeling they do it only because it is all they can do, and not doing it would seem suspicious. They condemn and condemn until the magic word slips out: "but...".

Therefore, be certain that Islamic terror will not only continue but become worse - until some terrible atrocity happens that shocks even the most peaceful and quiet people in the West. I hope I am wrong about this, but….

John aka kactuz
Posted by kactuz, Wednesday, 3 August 2005 4:26:02 AM
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So Kactuz, Mamdouh Habib was sent to Egypt to be tortured. Were the people that did that and allowed it to happen good people? Is it only Moslems who do these things?
Posted by GrahamY, Wednesday, 3 August 2005 6:29:58 AM
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This analysis is very good.

I heard a very good talk-back caller the other day ask "Why don't Muslim leaders around the world issue a fatwah (spelling) condemming terror in the name of Islam"? Good question but seriously lacking answers from the Muslim community!

It is very disappointing to keep seeing the same wimpy statements being made by the same leaders after terrorist attacks. Bring on one-way deportation for those who don't fully condemm terrorism in the name of Islam (or any other religion) and their supporters.

A further excellent article was written by Prof David Flint. I think he has the correct idea when it comes to multicultural separatism being promoted by the cultural elites who waste taxpayer moneys in our universities.
Posted by Dinhaan, Friday, 5 August 2005 1:21:18 AM
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Christian religous leaders should also be taking the lead in denouncing and stopping terrorist acts (war) by christians.
What we call war is in fact a more modern way of killing civilians.
One definition of a terrorist is "a man with a bomb who does not have an air force".
It is time we stopped kidding ourselves that calling terrorism war makes it okay to kill civilians.
Posted by Peace, Wednesday, 10 August 2005 7:06:44 PM
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Irfan.......you're a pathetic apologist. You can't argue rationally so you call us all rednecks, saying you must go off to work. Good on you, considering unemployment among your bretheren is sky high

Peace.......are you serious? Christian terrorists? To be honest, I'm actually upset there hasn't been some sort of radical Christian group targeting extremist Muslims, given our western governments are incapable. Your understanding of world conflicts is naive if you believe that the US is a terrorist by killing civilians. You must see the world in context.

We live in a scumhole planet where the only people with any morals are western Europeans, all the rest are savages. So you get a situation in the Middle East, where the west armed a monster like Saddam Hussein to protect their interests, which at the time was ensuring Iran didn't spread it's sewer philosophy of a world Islamic state, under which no one but Muslims have any rights. At least under western domination, our philosophy is that if you're philosophy is peaceful, and doesn't discriminate against others, you can keep it.

This is the problem we in the west are currently facing with Islam. Our weak leaders blurt out the nonsense that Islam, like Christianity, is a religion of peace. Even though endless Islamologists (academics who study Islam) as well as Islamic clerics themselves the world over, say that Islam can't tolerate non-Muslims. Put these words to the actions of Muslims worldwide & you have undisputable evidence that this is so. Christians get executed in Saudi Arabia, for example. But to the core, Islam is hateful & intolerant. One only has to type the Prophet Mohammed into Google.com & one gets responses of caravan raids, murderer, preacher of genocide, and so on.

Jesus Christ's final words were telling God to forgive his murderers for they not know what they do..........Mohammed's last words were to his followers to drive the non-Muslims from Arabia, which we now call ethnic cleansing.......
Posted by Benjamin, Sunday, 14 August 2005 10:46:54 PM
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Benjamin
Your last paragraph is relevent, the christian faith is supposed to be about forgiving and not about killing.
It is not okay to kill as long as you claim that you are doing the killing in the name of God or because God told you to do it.
If you want to compare Islam and Christianity I suppose you could try and do a body count for the last 1000 years to see which religion has been reponsible for the most deaths.
We are supposed to be the only reasoning species of life on the planet but we certainly have not been making very good use of this ability.
Posted by Peace, Wednesday, 17 August 2005 2:10:37 PM
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Perhaps posters to this thread might like to check out http://www.ihsanic-intelligence.com
It features a comprehensive Islamic legal ruling which condemns suicide terrorism under any and all circumstances. They're not all Jihadist fanatics, you know.
Posted by anomie, Wednesday, 17 August 2005 2:47:26 PM
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