It is a tragedy that to this day the Bosnian genocide is still referred to as a civil war. Imagine if we referred to the Holocaust as a civil war? Blood is blood. Whoever kills one person, it is as if he killed the entire humankind.

Osman says :the Bosnian Serb rebellion and subsequent Bosnian Croat rebellion against the legitimately elected and legally constituted government of Bosnia-Herzegovina"... (you're serious ?)

A greater tragedy is the blindness of so many to the actual ROOT causes of such conflicts. It seems the author's time line begins from the last Bosnian election, rather than the INVASION by the Ottoman Turks in 1300s or the illegal declaration of Independance from Yugoslavia, That....is the root cause. Speaking of the 'Bosnian Serb Rebellion' is one spin on the matter. Another, perhaps even more accurate 'spin' is to describe the war as nothing more than 'fixing historical injustices and war crimes' by the Turks.(not to even mention the Arminian Genocide)

Having read the history of Bosnia just recently, it is clear that it has always been a cespool of war by this or that prince, by this or that would be Suzereign, and rebellion against such by this or that 'noble family' or 'merchant class' etc etc..... which is pretty typical of the way the world has been since Cain whacked Abel.

I find it fascinating to see here that it was the 'Bosnian Serbs who Rebelled', rather than the "Bosnian Government which betrayed Belgrade" when it declared Independance.

This tells more about how we perceive history and events, in terms of our own prejudices than anything else.

So, based on Islamic punative law, and history, the massacre at Srebreniza was simply 'payback' (historically speaking) for past crimes. Another way of putting it, is 'Historical chickens came home to roost in the Muslim Chicken coop'

The same could be said of Britain for its brutality during the colonial period.

Now, I realize that 'Islamic' massacres are 'holy' and Serb massacres are 'profain'.... that's right isn't it ? but they are all massacres.

Personally, I am just an observer, not an advocate of such things, but I do learn from them, and I form opinions about so called 'prophets' from them.

I just point to Christ, who raised no sword, gathered no army, yet overcame the might of Rome by His life changing Word.

Maybe it’s just me because I am feeling jaded with everything that is going on at this moment, but, I read this article and find myself thinking what is the point? I hope I do not sound too dismissive. Probably do, tired, long week.

I remember a saying along the lines “to understand where we are going we must understand where we have been”. And maybe this article will help there. Is it the right place for this?

Lets learn from history but I hope we do not dwell on it. Eg we have BD bring up “root causes” with the Ottoman invasion etc etc! If we really want to go back let’s start with the first human to pick up that bone and use it as a weapon.

The ROOT cause is that humans are flawed, and various groups of humans at times through history want power, have felt threatened, or been jealous of others. And there have been others who stand against this aggression. So far “good” (?) seems to win out. Eg. WW1 WW2, fall of communism. But lets not forget good people are flawed. As the saying goes, “we are only human”.

Irfan’s comment is the key “Whoever kills one person, it is as if he killed the entire humankind”. We really need to get this thinking into the hearts and minds of the vulnerable. I admit grudgingly that total peace is probably impossible to achieve since humans ARE flawed. But lets learn and try to avoid what happened in Bosnia-Herzegovina again. So maybe the Iraq war that removed Saddam murderous regime was, despite the flawed (there is that word again) justifications, a good thing. Yes in Bosnia the west should have moved sooner. But would the western countries been seen as now in Iraq as imposing their will on others. Probably. It is not an easy road to take. And will the west always have the stomach to tackle this? I think most people hope so.

This is all probably off the focus of the article so forgive me. Tired, depressed and tired.

Oh fishy one....
nice post, obviously from the heart.

I want to pick on a couple of things you mentioned. Firstly, of a general nature, your observation about 'wherever you look, its pretty depressing' (paraphrase). Actually, humanly speaking I think you hit the nail on the head. At least your observation of the human condition is spot on. The bible calls this 'original sin'.

History, and humans. They go together mate. When William the conquerer invaded Saxon England, he had on his left flank the 2nd generation removed of exiled CELTS who the saxons had murderously stolen the land from, and who had fled to Brittainy, they were not even the ones who the Saxons 'took over' but boy oh boy, they REMEMBERED. The present is meaningless apart from the connection to the past mate.

On the matter of "If you kill one person" .. sheesh, whenever this is referred to I feel quite distressed, because the one who said it murdered (literally) and committed genocide, and further he indulged in TORTURE (now admitted by some like JustDan who has verified my references)....

Fish, may I draw your attention to Christ "looking to Him, the author and finisher of our faith" There is no other like Jesus, he talked the talk and walked the walk, healing, raising the dead, casting out demonic influences, calmed storms and gave Himself for us. (with no bomb attached :)

You described the problem, and a reading of history will only confirm that we haven't changed, perhaps there is 'ONE' who is the solution :)

B-D, I am convinced that you need treatment. I know a fantastic psychiatrist that might be able to help. And I say this with all sincerity. I am not trying to patronise you. It seems you are suffering from a pathological hate, and that this may arise from some bad experiences you have had in Malaysia or elsewhere.

Bosnia is not about religion. The Bosnian leadership came from all denominations. And the enemies of Bosnian multiculturalism and independence also came from all denominations.

Boaz_David your post on trying to place Bosnia-Herzegovia into a historic perspective had me very worried. The message I gained was that the Muslims masacred had it coming to them. A very violent view, and one I expect that does not sit well with Christinity.

Irfan is being very charitable when he suggests you need to consult with a Psychiatrist. The use of violence against anybody should be taboo. It's fair enough to try and analyse the underlying reasons for violence/terrorism. It is not fair enough to accept some examples of extreme violence as you seem to have done. I believe there is a good case for your post to be deleted, it is offensive.

IFRFAN :)
Thanx for your concern.
and there you go again.. ramping up the 'hate' stuff -no longer is it 'you hate us', but now its 'PATHALOGICAL' hate :)...

Irfan, its passion, not hate. If you feel hated, I suggest you need treatment. I prescribe 1 Cor 13
Re-read my reference to 'this prince or that noble family' etc ok....
We are ALL sinners, including me.

The declaration of independance was in the eyes of Belgrade 'Treachery' and it is no different from what Ash claims was the 'breaking of a treaty in a time of war' between the Banu Qurayza and Mohammed.

So, my 'rather colorful' description of events, is as much to get people 'THINKING'and questioning the 'PR' face of the various parties to the dispute, and that includes Serbs who might be tempted to justify the slaughter of Muslims.

About Malaysia .. I'm sure there ARE times when my passion stems from shameful hurtful disgusting brutal tyranical dehumanizing experiences at the hands of 'Islam' from there. Would you not understand that ? having LIVED under it, (Islam as a majority in a 'moderate' country)
I know the 'mind-set' of moderate Islam in majority or even 'authority/yet minority' status, so I don't speak from what I read in the papers mate.

But I must affirm, that my reasoning can stand by itself generally.
Just be careful not take too seriously all I say as an expression of 'who I am'.. how I feel etc. I repeat, getting people to think is a process involving strategies.

It is an undeniable fact of life, that all people seek to shape a society they live in, in terms of their own world view, either consciously or un.

If you are an ABC but society is XYZ your growth as ABCs will invariably threaten the XYZs, and conversely. Only when the XYZs are silent, sleeping and slack , will they be overtaken by the ABC's.

It is the height of cultural arrogance for ABCs to come to XYZ country and tell them to change their laws for their sake.

I think that, as far as these forums go, Boaz-o is way out in front of his competitors as the leading perpetrator of the 'sin' of spreading hate and fear of Muslims. It's clowns like him who are feeding hate and intolerance in Australian society via their pathological dissemination of anti-Muslim propaganda at every opportunity.

I used to think that his posts to these forums should best be ignored since they are self-evidently pointers to the poor man's psychopathology, but he has ramped up his attacks on Muslims since the London bombings, thus providing oxygen for several other delusional fanatics whose support he promiscuously accepts.

It's the godbotherers, rednecks and xenophobes in our society that worry me, rather than a handful of disaffected Muslim youths.

"The declaration of independance was in the eyes of Belgrade 'Treachery' "

So what? Are you implying that Belgrade had a bona fide interest in maintaining a politically equitable Yugoslavia? If you are, then that appointment with the shrink is long overdue. The Bosnian government was caught between a rock and a hard place. If they did not follow the Slovenian and Croatian leads in declaring independence they would have ended up as part of a rump yugoslavia entirely dominated by Belgrade. There was no moral, strategic or political impetus for them to pay lip service to Milosevic, a man whose pragmatism and opportunism was so great that he became an ultra-nationalist only for the simple reason that it would afford him an opportunity to grasp and extend his personal power and retain Serbian control over Kosovo.

Travel to Sarajevo, speak to Bosnians, and you will be able to form a picture of what happened there. Most Serbs there realise that something happened there which was not right, and which they were a part of, even if unwittingly. No one believes that it was about religion, simply that a few men with a warped vision of the future of the Balkans were able to manipulate submerged emotions for their, and no one else's gain.

And finally, have you ever been to Srebrenica David? If you had, and you had felt the touch of death, hate and misery that hangs over that once beautiful town, you would never, ever speak of it like that again.

JULES

Let me clarify my overall approach for your peace of mind :)

One thing I weary of very quickly is when people assess any given situation in terms of a particular point in history(usually very recent, and which relates specifically to their own POV or vested social/cultural/religious interests) and then go on to utterly condemn this or that group which they percieve as being opposed to said interests etc.

Further, when one group which itself has incredibly 'colorful' baggage and even worse, specific issues in its foundation documents which point to underlying attitudes at least as bad if not worse than the 'devil' they are trying to currently demonize.
(e.g. you would take issue with a national socialist in part because u know by default he would be an admirer of the sentiments contained in 'Mein Kampf' right ?)
The Muslim community is particularly enthusiastic about condemning the Serbs for atrocities (rightly so) but they do it with a 'But WE... have never and would never do such a thing..nooo no no no"

When the reality is as far as the East is from the West. The obvious example (which was 'a' motivating force behind the Serb action) is the Ottoman invasion in the 1300's. Quote "And it was about this time when the Ottoman Turks first laid waste the countryside"

Now consider this. Those Serbs, (as with the Celts who were exiled from Britain by the invading Saxons, who returned with the Duke of Normandy to re-take stolen land) have never, and will never forget the humiliation and 'dhimmitude' imposed on them by the Ottomans. The Muslim community is a continual reminder of that experience.

The aboriginals of Twofold bay in NSW have not and will never forget the massacre of their people by Sealers who were 'offended' by the Aboriginals attacking them in defense of their land.

The Jews have not, and will never forget the mass murder of their people the Bani Qurayza at the hands of Mohammed. (600-900 men and boys)

That, .....is my point

Is it just me? Or are others wishing B-D would just come out and declare his wish to see all Muslims eliminated?