A warm, funny and inspirational article. I love the Talmudic quote. As I tell my daughters almost daily (to a chorus of rolling eyes and an exasperated "Yes, we know, Muuuum!") what you give out, is what you get back.

Irfan,
yes, as enaj says, warm hearted, funny, and fulfilling for those at the heart of this relationship.

I have the same kind of relationship with a number of 'your mob' but recently, one Malay guy (Muslim) came along to a Christian stand we had at the Maroondah Festival, (croydon) and seeing him from a distance, I 'guessed' he would understand me and spoke to him in Malay. He had his mother in law, wife and children with him. I explained what I was doing (presenting Christ) and they were happy to listen, and even helped me with terminology where my language was lacking. There is a sense of family and warmth when you meet people of a shared national background experience (Im a white dude, and former missionary, as you know). When we had finished, they went their way with smiles from ear to ear, as I also had.

Now, lets put that same group of people in a country where the populations are more 'competitive' for the resources of Government jobs, educational opportunities, other areas. In the case of our mission station, situated near a river, but no drinkable, there was a water supply installed from the hills, which passed through a malay village, then to us and so on. Many of the older malay(Muslims) owed their lives to the medical work of our older misho's. (I've mentioned this b4 sorry to repeat), but during the water shortage, most likely the younger ones "who did not know the love experienced by their fathers" (A Pharaoh who did not know Joseph syndrome) they cut off the limited water so it did not reach us. They took it all.

Now, is this 'muslim' behavior or.... 'human' behavior. I suggest the latter. It also illustrates the problem of competitive religions/ethnic groups for resources. Its not the 'warm fuzzies' like you and your mum who drive the agenda's, its the 'young firebrands, the radicals, the 'Islamic Jihad's' etc.

..continued

continued....

They, will attempt to force people to 'take a side'. So, the stronger any community is, (which is vastly different from the host community) the more it is likely to be radicalized by those who feel 'hard done by'. When they find they are confronted by 'Haram' food at every place, that they can't bury their dead in the 'Islamic way', and are not allowed to wear the Hijab (france) etc, they will develop the 'victim' mentality and want to fight back. Forgetting totally that in the cases of migrants, they came to an existing country, and good manners alone would say "I come to YOUR country, I will accomodate my religious practices to suit, and not to offend".

But, when it comes to Islamic centres in a suburb which is massively against it, and they appeal the 'law' (code for 'politically sensitive Labor Gov't with large Muslim support bases) to subdue the residents, then, a 3% looks and feels like 90% to the rest of us.

Can you imagine for a moment, if a Muslim village in Pakistan was 'forced' by mr Musharraf, to allow the building of a Christian church right next to the mosque ? and wow, if it was an inch taller ? Oh myyyyy, u know what would happen we would hear the screaming and ranting from Australia.

In summary, 'people' today are no different from Abraham and Lot. They got along fine until "the pasture became scarce" and the suddenly instead of sitting around the campfire together, they are at each others throats "And lots Herdsmen began fighting with Abrahams"

People tend to take a mile when given an inch. I allow a bloke to park his truck on my property, (for $$) but suddenly one day, anOTHER vehicle (belonging to his side kick) appeared, and is there quite a few days a month. He didn't ask me about it. What's next, the offsider's helpers car ? :)

In Australia, your mum and her Jewish friend, can enjoy true human f'ship without the pressure of competition for resources. Lets keep it that way.

hi.

i sent this article to a sufi e-mail group based in scotland. one of the subscribers advised as follows ...

""If we are not for ourselves, who is for us? If we care only for
ourselves, what are we? If we don't love now, when will we
start?" is a misquotation of Hillel ; the original is in the singular, i.e. "I" not "we" throughout. If it said "we", it would,
as the author wishes it to, suggest a collective Jewish responsibility towards the non-Jewish world, whereas in reality, it
suggests the responsibility of the individual Jew towards other Jews.

You may find this informative:
http://www.daatemet.org.il/daathalacha/en_gentiles1.html

Naturally, this does not imply that Jews qua individuals may not be
loving towards non-Jews ; only that by doing so they depart from Halachah."

i have no idea how accurate this is. perhaps jewish readers could assist.

B-D, it seems to me that you are determined to hate muslims, jews, malays and anyone else that does not agree with you. God bless you.

Hi Irfan,

Agree with the article.I do have jewish friends in Australia and had met fe while travelling in Sinai/ Egypt as well. We do have a lot in common.

A point on the palestinians however, I don't believe it is a religious issue but political / land related conflict. Jewish people lived in the middle East and have contributed a great deal to the economy, art and even democracy in these countries. In Egypt, I can name few Jewish Egyptians:
" Jacob Sannoue" liberal activist/writer against the british colonialism early 20th century.
"Edmond Sidnaoui" the retail tycoon and owner of the largest retail stores chain.
"Dawood (David) Hosni" the greatest musician and artist.
"Omar Shariff" the most actor in Lawrence of Arabia and DR. Zivago.

These are Egyptian icons who belonged to the jewish faith.
The palestinian /Israeli conflict in my belief is a lack of vision
for the region. God bless good old Sadat.

Ifran,
Yet again, you show that it does not matter what faith your are from to live a healthy, tolerant, compassionate life. I have an Indian friend of Hindu faith and he is similar in that he joins in all the ‘usual’ thing our group does – except when it clashes with certain tenants of his faith. And we all understand. I look forward to the days when this is a world-wide phenomenon.

Irfan wrote:
"If we are not for ourselves, who is for us? If we care only for
ourselves, what are we? If we don't love now, when will we
start?" is a misquotation of Hillel ; the original is in the singular, i.e. "I" not "we" throughout. If it said "we", it would, as the author wishes it to, suggest a collective Jewish responsibility towards the non-Jewish world, whereas in reality, it suggests the responsibility of the individual Jew towards other Jews."

The Hillel quote goes: "If I am not for myself, who is for me? and if I am only for myself, what am I? and if not now, when?" I'm hardly a religious scholar, but I've always interpreted that one as referring to relationships among people in general ("I" as a human being, not just as a Jew). However, I suppose Hillel, as a rabbi, would have been mainly addressing Jews.

Another often-quoted saying comes from Hillel being challenged to sum up the entire Torah in one sentence. He replied "What is hateful to thee, do not unto thy fellow man: this is the whole Law; the rest is mere commentary." Again, sounds to me like it's meant for everyone; not just Jews. In any case, like the words of many great sages, this saying seems quite universally applicable, and living by it would keep most of us out of most of the kinds of trouble we seem to get ourselves into and inflict upon others. And of course it's a principle expressed in other traditions as well - "Do unto others..." etc.

Irfan - that's a very touching story. As long there are people like your mother and her friend around there's hope.

IRFAN....

You said "B-D, it seems to me that you are determined to hate muslims, jews, malays and anyone else that does not agree with you."

You curse me in one side of the mouth and bless me with the other ? :)

If I might ask, 'how' and 'where' do you derive 'hate' from any of my posts against classes of people ? Please answer this and show good cause why I should not be greivously offended at the remark. Not only do I now "hate" Muslims generally (per you) but now, added to the list is "Malays, Jews and all who disagree" ummm... how in Gods name (and I mean that) did you get 'Jews' being hated out of my post ?

The only mention I made of them was in an affectionate tone. (which is how I DO regard them as per Romans 9 have a read.)

That was a kick below the belt Irfan, designed to derail the actual debate and turn it into an 'us/them' hate match. Well, it won't work.
I've focused on the 'issue' at all times as far as I can recollect mate. The issue being as it grew, about Christ and the Apostles compared and contrased with Mohammed and his companions.

Next you will have me hating all 'non wasps' (forgetting that I'm married to a rather well suntanned tribal girl)

Irfan, do you 'hate' the Labor party ? (given your liberal connection)?
For the past few days they have been deliberately misrepresenting the IR policy, saying 'workers will only get 2 weeks annual leave' when they KNOW damn well, that the 2 weeks loss is OPtional and in exchange for CASH, and that it CAME from the WA LABOR Government idea.

I don't believe (unless u can show me) that I've misrepresented Islam.
Ash gave the 'sugar coated' version in the other thread, I gave the 'other side of the coin'

Remember, the judgement we give, is the one by which we will also be judged. Think twice b4 saying 'you hate me/us/them'.

Interesting article.
I agree that on a personal level people around the world can relate to each other regardless of their beliefs.

However, if we examine the scriptures purported by the Muslim faith (ie the Koran), it seems "Allah" preaches otherwise:

The dinner table
[5.51] O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.

Children of Israel
[17.58] And there is not a town but We will destroy it before the day of resurrection or chastise it with a severe chastisement; this is written in the Divine ordinance.

(these references are taken from the Koran translation at the following website http://www.hti.umich.edu/k/koran/ ) let me know if you think they are inacurrate.)

Dungbeetle,

THe transalation you refer to is interesting.
- The first verse the word does not mean "friends" but "Awleya"
which is leader in either a spiritual or physical form.

- The second reference is in Il Israa and that was a general term about what does God do to those who are ungrateful in General. It wasn't adressing the Israelite specifically.

Best treatment Jews had was by muslims, thats our and their history.

Regards

AK

B-D wrote:

"The issue being as it grew, about Christ and the Apostles compared and contrased with Mohammed and his companions."

Wrong again B-D. The article concerned the friendship between a Muslim and a Jewish woman - it was you who introduced the non-sequitur of Christ and the Apostles.

However, you've demonstrated time and again in these forums that your religious obsession renders you incapable of anything like a balanced view of the world. You may not acknowledge your feelings towards others as hate, but they are evidently experienced by the objects of your aggressive crusade as that despicable emotion.

Any religion preaches own superiority and exclusiveness-otherwise there is no point for a formal spirituality. The question remains to what degree a particular one does.

United against the Crusaders, the Arabs and the Jews are still a threat to not employing them in de-facto nazi Australia and elsewhere because of them being Arabs or Jews.

That is why traditional inter-nations conflicts either in the Middle East, the Balkans or in any other place on a globe serve well too many geo-politicians