Opps my bad Deuc you are right,

Sorry, Ontotheology is about the God which SOME think we cannot prove or disprove, because they belong in different categories , SCIENCE vs FAITH.

Sell’s God is a God we cannot prove or disprove as it’s a RELATIONSHIP category, but through the fact there is an objective relationship between you an a non-existent entity, experienced through a subjective experience, that we come to experience it's truth, which BTW other faiths mistakenly experience as the real thing.

Poor me, I was mixing the fact that both types of ‘God’ have people that think you cannot prove or disprove God. Also I’m still trying to take in this new theology that says you can have a relationship between yourself and a non-existent entity.

Don’t we just call this madness?

But wait, if it interacts with our world, we can infer that you have a relationship with something or relationship loses any meaning. So is that the proof Sells is talking about?

Or is it like saying with narcissism, you are having a relationship with yourself?

Or-r-r-r, is this a Christian Koan like the sound of one hand clapping thing, it’s not meant to make sense?

Neohuman,

Thanks for the explanation.

Pericles,

No offense intended. Just wanted to understand the difference between atheism that co-exists with religions and the soviet model of jail sentencing Koran and bible holders. Neo human explained it.

yours.. fellow human..Ash

You are right Neohuman, religion is madness, for people to put their faith in something so old and so unsubstantiated is serious madness. What amazes me is that they constantly refer to the bible, knowing that the book they refer to is totally different to what was originally written. If you look at the religious assertion that the universe is a well ordered state controlled and ministered by god, then you look at the reality, you will see a vast difference. The universe operates in a state of controlled chaos, just like a river does when it goes from peacefully flowing through the countryside to a raging destructive force whilst in flood. What religious people forget or refuse to accept is that we, are within an evolution that is constantly changing. Look at things logically and rationally, you can see the answers are simple and religion easy to dismiss, as the rantings of those that are totally freaked out by change and difference. Evolution is a process that we are part of and as we are within a 3 dimensional world, and aware of single and dual dimensions, the most logical evolutionary step is the 4th dimension. If an ant looks up at us, it would see something it can't comprehend and we may look like our universe does to us, for the ant. Space is most likely made up of the 4th dimension and we are yet unable to access that. That is what we must do, discover the key and door to that dimension so that we understand that next step. Not sit with our heads in the sand and our bums firmly stuck in the past. Religious people need to get over their insecurity and realise that what they worship and follow is not only a fallacy but and evil one at that. Mind you there are other sides to all this, but I doubt that the religious could take much more reality, as it is they are trying to again take control the world because their illusions are collapsing under the weight of reality.

The alchemist I wouldn’t go saying all religion is madness-it was a stage of our social cognitive development- just denial and delusion clinging to an archaic worldview that ignores the implications of pluralism, and advances in science

First the religious have to tackle the incompatibility of foundational pluralism, not hide behind political correctness and ethical pluralism.

Let’s forget the literalist creation science nutters, or the biased nonsense of Sells, and deal with the Intelligent design or it’s science and faith are two different categories.

The ID can try to fiddle in a divine entity but while they are at it is beholden to them to say which entity that is and why not the others. This is doubly so given not only the march of science that has lead to the God of the Gaps, but also when independent investigation of the archaeological and written Biblical evidence point towards a developing cultural construct which Christianity by default designates all other faiths.

Also -using Christianity because of our common cultural connection- unless you do extreme mental gymnastics and live in denial you have the OT God condoning advocating acts that we today find ethically unacceptable eg slavery, genocide. This copout that Jesus comes along and changes things forgets that this is a package deal, you cannot have one part of a divinity advocating amoral practices and the other ‘moral’ and be ethically or logically inconsistent.

Philo,

Re your reply to Jim on June 26.

What the...? Where on earth did you dream up that completely warped story? Have you been smoking some forbidden weed? Or are you swigging too much communion wine?

Peter Sells: What makes you think fascism and communism aren't religions? For Marx the working class - a universal God. For Fascists the complete Power over others - Ubermensch uberalles. Also please consider the estimated nine million good souls (mostly women) the Church (Inquisition) put to death over the six hundred years (the Dark Ages) when religion overtook folks' minds and their humanity.
To poster Trinity - God's gender? It seems pretty clear that God was a Misogynist - thus that God was Male.
Does God exist? Following the American tradition - if a blade of grass can exist - why not (a real and nice) God? Think about how every second you exist is just the most wonderful miracle in the universe.
Old saying: "A little philosophy inclineth man's mind to atheism; but depth in philosophy bringeth men's minds about to religion."
New saying: "A little more thinking inclineth men and women to sack religion and search for the Big Fella themselves".

New saying: "Religion the refuge of good and evil."
Old saying: "That which is done out of love always takes place beyond good and evil."