I was brought to this article from news.google.com.au after browsing for an update on the Corby verdict.

I don't want to comment on the case directly; rather, I'd like to thank the author for reminding me that issues like this - that is, those that provoke a strong emotional response in those unrelated to the case, such as myself - sometimes make one forget that it is important to stand back, to judge every issue on its own merits, and to not form opinions based on a subset of information (in my case, the information provided to me by the mainstream Australian media).

I have been guilty in this case of forming judgements based on limited facts. Thank you for making me think; and for bringing me to this website, which I'm sure will rapidly become a favourite.

j.

It is so sad that Indonesia the country of CORRUPTION can decide on someone's life.

About time we were exposed to a level headed approach to this issue.
I can't help but think that many of the emotional responses were guided by latent prejudices against Indonesia (for whatever reason) and not informed by the facts, rule in law and above all the inter- national jurisdiction and the contemporary cultural polity that exists between Austrlia and Indonesia.

In another forum article http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=3418 Surya Deva rightly points out "that it is hypocritical for the US and Australia to decry the [human rights] abuses of other countries when their [our] own corporations violate these same human rights in the backyards of developing countries".[such as Indonesia]

The point I’m attempting to make here is that we need a fuller picture of our diplomatic and national profile in countries such as Indonesia to understand how this may or may not influence criminal proceedings.

Was the lack of movement by our federal government on corporate human rights abuses in Indonesia have an influence the way in which Corbey was treated by Indonesia’s criminal justice system? I say no, these are their domestic laws.

We expect Indonesians to abide by our laws when they visit, Indonesia expect the same courtesy from us when we visit their country.

Would the abuses by our corporations have an influence on the political and diplomatic ability of our government intervene and negotiate to embedd our own notions of legal fairness on behalf of Corby?

Most definitely Yes.

Rainier - any corporations operating in Indonesia either comply with or break Indonesian law. No matter how much people yell and squeal about "evil" corporations committing all sorts of injustices upon the peasants of foreign countries, those corporations operate within the law of those lands.

If you've got a problem, take it up with the Indonesian government. By the way, which Australian corporations are committing human rights abuses in Indonesia? What should our government do about it?

The primitive system of justice practised in Indonesia: that a person is guilty until he / she proves their innocence. Such a case is more difficult for the accused to present before Indonesian Judges. The prosecution did not have to present any forensic evidence to prove her guilt, just had to maintain the drugs were in her posession. It is more difficult for an innocent person to clear their name of guilt if all the evidence is not properly maintained.

The Australian Westminster system of justice where the prosecution must produce the evidence to prove guilt of the offender is a far superior and more just system. That Chapelle is guilty was not determined by the evidence presented by the prosecution, as the judges already had a predisposition with their offhanded comments on the fact of the illegal substance was in bags she owned and proved her guilt.

Similar primitive justice is being introduced into Australian law with the introduction of tribunals where the person must prove they had not committed an offense. Australia is being influenced by recommendations from the multicultural foundation to introduce similar legal proceedings.

Australia too has plenty of corruption (Frenchdude & Philo). When foreign visitors come to our shores they are subject to our laws. Our peculiar laws and particular brand of institutional racism (just think about our Prime Minister for a moment) must shock and puzzle many a visitor. Much as Corby's attractive face and emotional appeals have aroused great sympathy amongst most Aussies, laws and courts the world over are there for a purpose. Many australians are wrongfully convicted. The outcries are few. Yet as soon as the nation doing the convicting, according to their laws, is a nation of people of different skin colour and religion the Australian public goes balistic. Let us save our indignation for a matter we can do something about - the many people being wrongfully incarcerated in THIS country.

Ironer, please see my post on http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=3496
as it was directed at people such as yourself.

davo,

It's true that Bashir only got a small amount of time for his part of the Bali bombings but if you want to hold political/religious leaders accountable then Bush, Blair and Howard should all be in jail. They are responsibile for the deaths of up to 100,000 people. It makes Bashir seem positively benevolent (in these terms Corby wouldn't hit the radar).

For those people who disagree with the presumption of guilt. Imagine you are falsely accused of rape (remember, some feminists claim up to 99% of women are rape victims)and are in court. Then read the article about rape laws in NSW and try to image how you could get anything close to a fair trial.

http://smh.com.au/articles/2005/05/22/1116700591974.html

Yes posters, you are all right in what you say, but Phillo (sorry if i've mispelt) are right on the nail. Corby is no different to a lot of other people under the gun of indonesian law. Which is, (and we're all experts of indonesian law thanks to Schapelle)so different to Westminster law, which certainly has its flaws, however, unless you can point the finger at someone else under Indonesian law, you cop the lot. A very narrow jurisdiction that was proved during Corby's trial and the subsequent sentence. One baggage handler would have got her off the hook. I think we should call for a complete investigation into our airport security - obviously the buck started there, maybe for her and a lot of others. Quite frankly, there is no way I would go to Bali again, not because of their laws, but because of being so easily set up in Australia and THEN being subject to Indonesian law.

I know that Schappelle's case has attracted more than its fair share of attention, but maybe it's taken her case to realise it's happening and has to others, and could happen to us. It has also highlighted perhaps that other countries do have different ways of seeing (and judging) stupid things that human beings do. Regardless of Johnny howard, we're still a rather marvellous country. I just can't condone a govt that can't find a criminal of their own militia in East Timor, but can sentence little drug dealers to death. Hope the judge sleeps alright at night.

The fallout and injustice of laws against marijuana have come home to roost in the case of Schapelle Corby.

The ridiculous Indonesian law gave 20 years to the young woman for being the victim of a drug trafficking operation.

In Alabama in the United States Schapelle Corby would not only have gotten the same sentence she received in Indonesia but she would also have gotten if she were carrying a handbag or a shirt made of hemp.

Marijuana has been attacked for decades as a result of intense lobbying by the United States and now the Australian cotton industry.

Hemp is similar to marijuana. The fibers from hemp produce a superior fabric to cotton both in insulation value, ability to carry color and durability.

To demonize hemp marijuana has been heaped up with social ills that it never caused.

As a result ridiculous laws are in place in the United States that put men and women in jail for smuggling drugs when they are moving hemp seed or hemp products without a license.

Australia’s cotton industry is controlled by American interests and much of the cotton is exported to Indonesia for their cheap labor textile industry. The laws have spread.

The crime of putting Schapelle Corby in jail is dwarfed by the crime of keeping reasonably pricedc clothing off the market. If you want Schapelle Corby released nearly immediately - put the blame where it belongs - on the cotton industry and watch as she is released with lightning speed.

On my only two trips to Bali I've had to bribe officials to stay out of trouble.On my first trip,I didn't have an international licence for a motor cycle.It wasn't a matter of paying an official fine,but a cash donation to a particular police officer.On my second visit we were on our way to Aboud in a bus when we were stopped by the police and a collection was taken from all passengers so we could reach our destination.Comments from the bus driver,"It's OK he's my brother in law, we have to pay."

Indonesia functions on corruption.This is one of the major reasons for their poverty,since there is no real motivation to turn up and do a really hard,honest day's work.

The judge who convicted Schapelle today,has adjudicated on 500 trials and found all to be guilty.How is this possible?

The reality is that if you don't bribe the judge before you go to court,you will be found guilty.

Schapelle's case was high profile and if she had enough money and the nauce to bribe the officials before it all became public,she would be a free woman today.Nothing about this case adds up.If really guilty,she has got to be the most stupid drug trafficker on this planet.

I agree Di - I can find something with which I agree in all the posts on this thread. In particular, I'm delighted to be able to agree 100% with Arjay's last post. It concurs completely with my own experience of Indonesia.

While I'm certainly sympathetic with Cranston's perspective, I think that it's a bit facile to compare the unavailability of hemp clothing with what appears to be a travesty of justice in the case of Schapelle Corby.

My own view is that she is most likely the innocent but unfortunate victim of someone else's criminal behaviour, but that in itself is insufficient for her to be found not guilty by the court on the evidence before it. I think that is why the Australian government is taking unprecedented steps in the background to try and assist Schapelle Corby's appeal and/or transfer to an Australian prison.

I was so disgusted with the rising anti-Indonesian sentiment I ceased radio interviews on the subject from midday yesterday. I have not seen such redneck reaction in Australia since the deaths of the Balibo Five in 1975.

I support the Indonesian verdict and suggest to that Corby consider herself fortunate that she was not caught in either Malaysia or Singapore which carry mandatory death penalties.

The Sydney Morning Herald posted a most objective opinion addressing most Australian's question as to why one would take 4 kg of pot to Bali. The Australian product sells for $20,000 per kilo and because of the entrapment problems associated with drug purchasing in Bali, foreigners trade between thremselves - The Australian product is superior to the hashish from Asia and is considerably more expensive.

I saw the Bahasa Indonesian version of Corby when she was caught cold at the airport. She admitted that the drugs were hers and identified the contents without opening the bag as Marijuana.
Kerry B. Collison
Melbourne

Welcome to the world we live in is all I can say to those expressing anti-Indonesian sentiment here.

Just remember, many of you voted for a government that argues that its ok to lock people coming to our shores who just want to become Australians. How 'primitive' is that!

Not one peep from any of you on a young Australian citizen facing a death sentence in Singapore? (Well he's an Asian isn't he?...oh I get it

I don't think there is anti-Indonesian sentiment in these posts, just an anti-corruption sentiment.

Thank you for a balanced article. If as you say the law in certain cases does not have the presumption of innocence, including some in Australia it is useful to learn of the situations in which this applies. Maybe wider knowledge by travelling people would be useful.
I think most of the arguments are emotive and have little basis in fact, after all we all believe in our being subject to law, not just when it suits our purpose.

This is the rub. It does appear true that in some situations the law can be avoided by appeal to sentiment, fear and greed. The Rycroft Memorandum of May 1 revelation is but one. Given such the blogs listed make more sense, for appeals to lies if backed by powerful propaganda, the media, and by fear or greed the law becomes hidden by emotive minds.

Davo says, "I don't think there is anti-Indonesian sentiment in these posts, just an anti-corruption sentiment.", but Philo earlier described the system of justice practised in Indonesia as "primitive".
As I understand it, the Indonesian system is based on the Dutch system which is... just different from our system, the Westminster system. They are a sovereign nation and are entitled to have whatever system they want and we just have to accept that if we want to visit Indonesia, just as they have to accept our system here, like the Japanese five back in 1992, found guilty on a drugs changes by an Australian court, when many of us were not convinced they were guilty.

Frankly I don't know, and none of us truly knows whether Schapelle was guilty or not. I certainly hope her new found Christian Faith is a great help to her now that she is convicted and that all her family, friends and well-wishers give her every support for however long she remains in prison.

That was quite a rant by Cranston36 about the evils of banning marijuana - all I can think of is the two young men I know personally who are now certifiable schizophrenics as a result of the use of marijuana.

Rainer,can we all pool our resources and build you a bridge to some where,so you can get over yourself.You are so predicable,playing the old racist card.Keep it close to your bosom,since your scope of enlightenment leaves you with little credibility,and satisfies your thirst for some noteriety.

So the media has run away with the story,but that does not diminish the enormous injustice Shapelle has suffered,whether she be innocent or guilty.

Once the media gets a hold of this sort of thing that stir the pot and generate as much interest in it as they can. Why? As far as the media is concerned it "story." To be milked and bilked to death. Keep those eyeballs on the TV watching what they put on between the commercials. Advertising revenue is afterall why they are in business.

Sadly, people seem to miss that essential truth of the media and get caught up in what ever the pundits are saying. They let the media dictate their perception and conscious focus. l suspect that these are the same people who get angry at an actor who plays a villian when that actor is seen in public. Or the same people who lay reaths at the gate upon the death of someone with whom they have never had a relationship and whom they only know through their media personalities.

Its entertainment and its sad.

A bit of Indonesia bashing, thinly veiled racism, has a pretty long history in this country and a certain segment of the population enjoy doing it. Gives them a way to legitemise their prejudice and something to be angry about. Some folks are happiest when they got a villian against whom they can direct their perpetual anger.

l'm all corbied out and frankly l care more about the plight of a 5 yr old Phillipino dump scavanger than her. Yeah, l know it COULD happen to me. Could, being the opperative word. Will worry about that highly unlikely possibility IF it happens to me. Otherwise, lm not worried about the countless bad stuff that could afflict me in this life. Waste of mental energy.

Corby supporters minds are made up... l doubt they want to be confused by ALL the facts, the double standards and logical fallacies that permeate their angry and heart felt lamentations.

So Bashir got 2 years for conspiring in a terrorist act that killed almost 100 australians. Schapelle gets 10 times that, without fingerprints on the drugs bag to prove she handled it, and their grubby prosecutors and police are appealing it as inadequate.

Why didn't bashir get more? Because its a country of islamic fanatics and no-one wanted to stir up their great unwashed fanatical masses. Or is it payback because we're with america in afghanistan and iraq? The hatred of america by indonesians [suharto was supported by the us] and by muslims generally is well known and has been on the record for years. Go figure.

Now I hear that some of the people who had donated to the Tsunami victems are threatning to get their money back.

It chills me to find justification this way for feeling of unease I had during the Tsunami Appeal 'hype'. It is just despairing to reinforce my idea that how unreasonable people are generally.

The tsunami.....I didn't have much money to give then.....there's no way I'm handing over a dime now.

I have never been pro or agin Corby. I was not privy to any of the legal facts. On the contrary, as a no name member of the community, I was bombarded by media and family hype and related bulldust.

A couple of examples of bulldust are:

* People keep refering to her as a "girl" or "young girl". I am a baby boomer. Even so, fortunately I have been gifted with a number of useful neurones - which I try to keep exercising. When I was reared there were two main uses of the term girl(s). People referred to a girl or young girl when they were talking about a child until 12 years of age. Thence on, the person was reffered to as a "teenager" or an adolescent - or indeed, a young woman. The notion of the term girl implied that the person had not reached a mature level of thinking (even though it could be argued that some of us never do!). Added to this notion and chronological age, the assumption was that the person could not make an informed decision. Then, after we had passed the test with regard to adulthood and maturing age - it was Ok to say that we were "going out with the girls" (permission to be child like and hold no responsibility for one's actions).

* Corby is not a "girl". She is a mature woman. Maturity suggests some wisdom.

* The media keep referring to Schappelle - as if we all know her very well. Usually people who are before the courts are referred to by their surname.

I have no idea about her circumstances. But I do know that her mother should stay away from TV cameras, radio interviews, and magazine articles - if she wants intelligent people to lend support to future legal challenges by the Corby legal team.

Cheers Kay.

Hmmm, a lot of emotive forums coming out, which is always good. I don't think that it is racist to call a country's laws primitive. It's not against the people, it's against the law. Indonesia is hardly a democracy and I would think that any of us that have been lucky enough to grow up in a country that has a proper democracy (regardless of Amanda Vanstone being a minister) can rightly call upon a country's draconian "death penalty" laws as being primitive. When Germany changed the laws to make being a Jew a criminal, that was primitive. But nobody said anything. That didn't make the law right. Laws should always be questioned and tested. And there is no one on this planet that would make me believe that a govt death sentence on drug trafficking is nothing but primitive.

Well well well, finally an opposing viewpoint to the majority of the population. I support corby and all, and her sentence is just, perhaps lenient, but i do believe that corbys defense team should have got the fingerprints off the bag, and been allowed to provide actual evidence. Currently the whole verdict was based on this "fact" = "Here, lies shapelles bodyboard. Inside, lies marijuana. This proves that she owns it".

I also think that this case has too much bias on one side (the emotional supporters who believe corby is innocent). It is suprising how a crying supposedly "innocent" young girl can attract so much support from Australians. Too bad we cant give the same attention to people in third world countries and other charities (Where does all of the donated money go anyway? To the webmasters piggybank thats where). I bet each webmaster is laughing his/her head off at the false promise of sending the money to support her family (besides, if it did go to support her family, why didn't it make the news?)

Now, just about the emotional supporters, i would like to say to you, dont you think it is a bit weird that both Schapelles father and brother were convicted of being involved in marijuana? Also if you think shes innocent and such a sweet little angel,she has also had several husbands as well.

Yes, all hail the sweet little angel. The media love her as well. All this protesting to the judges and the indonesian goverment WILL NOT aid in the releasing of corby. It will only hinder corby's chances of being set free. For once id like the media to show us a news report on the reasons why the indonesians/australians think she may be guilty, instead of bombarding us with crying/freaky eyes of shapelle corby and her cult followers saying "rah... rah.. free schapelle... rah rah"

Note i do not believe that she is guilty, but from reading a variety of articles on the case, she could very well be.

Excellent article Surya Deva, my sentiments exactly.

Third world poverty is the result of the exact same kind of corruption involved in the trial of Schappele Corby. So if the Corby case does force Indonesia to address its problems with corruption, then maybe the problems of poverty would subside.

Many of the people who scorn Corby are elitist blowhards who despise anyone from the lower classes. Just check out trade 125 comments on

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=3496

If we strip all the emotive and ignorant nonsense espoused by the pro and anti Corby mobs in and out of the media and on the Internet, we are left with very little substantial evidence upon which we base our opinions about the probability of her innocence or otherwise.

Under these circumstance, I'm surprised that nobody has cited the seminal statement on jurisprudence from Enlightenment philosopher Voltaire: "It is better to risk sparing a guilty person than to condemn an innocent one".

In cultural and historical terms, I think that the major cultural difference that underlies the respective approaches of the Australian and Indonesian judicial systems is that our culture underwent the Enlightenment, while Indonesia is still very much in the thrall of Muslim superstitious thinking. The fact that one of the judges is Christian makes little difference: without the Enlightenment, there isn't all that much that distinguishes Christianity from any other religious ideology.

Personally, I think it is highly likely that Corby was incorrectly convicted by the Indonesian court, which evidently holds (to paraphrase Voltaire) that: "It is better to risk condemning an innocent person than to spare a guilty one".

Unfortunately, this is an approach to justice that apparently now finds some favour in our own society. We are going backwards.

There comes a day in every woman’s life when she no longer feels invincible. This was Schapelle's such day.

I think some clarification is needed. Searching the web I find that presumption of innocence, even in drug cases, applies Australia and Indonesia. As this is a major point of emotive reaction perhaps the authors can clarify?
On the question of juries it is surely relevant to note that Indonesia follows the European system and anyone going to Indonesia presumably is aware of this?

One thing i would like to know, is why she was called a marijuana queen (in indonesia) when others have smuggled up to about 12kg of mari into their country.

davo,
"Many of the people who scorn Corby are elitist blowhards who despise anyone from the lower classes. Just check out trade 125 comments..."

Hehehehhehelariously ignorant prejudgment on your part.

l'm from a "lower" class background firmly rooted in a working class ethic and l don't think in elitest terms of 'class.'

My opinions about bikies, dealers and crims are not based on blowhard conjecture. They are based on experience and running with that crowd once upon a time. Jugdging a book by its cover goes a long way in that neck of the woods. Anyone who doesnt exercise some basic pre-judgment when mixing with those characters is asking for trouble. Its one thing to be an ageing baby boomer or yuppie weekend biker on his harley in a black jacket going from cafe to winery. An actual biker is a different matter. Weekend bikers dont usually have typical biker beards, they got to put on white collars come Monday. In the real world of bikers, appearance is a uniform. Its a basic form of recognising one's own kind. You prolly already know this, not being an elitist an all, but bikers identify themselves as outlaws and rebels, making their own rules and dont follow the rules of 'the man.' They like to exist outside of the system and that means crime.

Hate to burst your bubble but actual crims, dealers and bikers 'shoot first and ask questions later.' They dont exercise wounderfully insightful and well considered rational intellectualisations... they judge... its basic survival, its efficient and they essentially dont give a rats arse about being 'predudiced.'

If l see a one legged man, l feel reasonably safe in my prejudice that he can't run very well, if at all. l'm not gonna ask him to run into a burning building to rescue a baby. l rely on an observation to prejudge him. You assume that prejudgment is inherently bad.

How do activities of father relate to Corby? Given that Corby's brother has similar drug convictions to his father, its apparent that the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

Hmm... Woman's Day and the like,might have liked a different verdict so they could sell her story by the truckloads, once she got herself back in the country. Mind you they still have the rest of family to sell a fair few truckloads of perhaps Australia's greatests argument against woodchipping... the Tabloid Magazine. "The girl next door", "the aussie battler", etc....any more well worn cliches? If I were Ms Corby I'd be blaming this overblown circus, we have had to contend with for the past 8 months or how ever long it has been. I'm not saying the Court would have necesarily found her to be innocent, but surely our stirring hearts and minds have done more harm than good. Australians boycotting Bali as a holiday destination might actually make the island a much more attractive destination. Less drunken and disrespectful Aussie yobbo's, because I am thinking they'd be the ones more likely to boycott.

I have a suspicion that the verdict was given regardless of guilt. Indonesia wants to send a strong message to Australia, that they do not want drug smugglers frequenting and corrupting the morality of Indonesia. They are not concerned if no tourists arrive in Bali. They see the type of Australians frequenting Night Clubs in Bali as Western infidel scum. So setting off bombs in such places to kill Westerners is part of the jihad to cleanse Indonesia from the influences of kafir. They wish to terrorise their own people to bring then into subjection to Islamic religious law. Note the chants of support for Bashir and the chants of condemnation for Chapelle, guilt or innocence was not on their mind.

There have been comments about the presumption of innocence and the misconception that it automatically applies in Australia. Bzzzzzzzzzz! Wrong! In the case of illicit drugs, the presumption of innocence and the burden of proof is reversed when quantity exceeds statutory limits. In those cases there is a prima facie presumption of trafficking and the onus is on the accused to prove otherwise. Same thing with proceeds of crime. It is up to the accused to prove they are legitimate. In the mean time the state ties up those assets and they will be forfeited to the state in the absence of proof as to their legitamacy. In other words, under OUR system, sometimes an accussed is guilty until proven innocent.

It is in these cases where good forensic science can assist and clear the innocent, and can better identify the guilty.

Arjay,

I apologize for raising issues of race and racism on this forum. I was short sighted and narrow minded of me to even suggest that racism, and especially benign racist views were subtextual and yet dominant in how anti-Indonesian sentiment is being articulated here.

I realize now that this could ever come out of the minds of egalitarian, fair minded and wonderfully enlightened Australians just like you Arjay. Indeed, how dare I even contemplate disrupting your train of pure and virtuous thought by making accusations of racism.

Please forgive me for being so wrong about your intentions. You are right, only those who are members of a dominant racial group in any society have the right to declare when racism exists or is evident in public debate. What a fool I have been

Well said Philo! This case (and no doubt others - and I'm thinking David Hicks) has been an absolute bastardisation of law. If it comes down to cashing the judges, well, she may just has well have pleaded guilty and saved herself a whole lot of heartache. The previous poster that mentioned she had a lot of husbands. Hello? Price of fish? and the fact that her dad and brother had convictions with dope? Did you read that in No Idea? I had a charge of police assault against me 20 odd years ago. Does that make my parents cop bashers? The facts are that Indonesian law is geared toward the prosecution, the fact that had the judge been bribed, the outcome would have been different, makes a joke of that country having any laws worth cocking a leg to. That doesn't make me racist or xenophobic, it makes me angry that we still tip our hats and call it the law. Corruption should have no place in any judicial system. It's apparently obvious it does in Indonesian law from the guards in the jails up to the prosecution and judges. That's what sucks. Not whether No Idea is making any circulation out of it.

Trade251 – bzzzzzzzz - there is a big difference between the presumption of trafficking and the presumption of guilt. You don’t have to prove you weren’t trafficking in drugs if you’re not found guilty of possessing them. Similarly you don’t have to prove your property wasn’t obtained by unlawful means if you haven’t been convicted of an offence.

Corby had to prove she was innocent. Any fair-minded person would realise that this is not the way a modern and fair judicial system should work, whether it be in Indonesia, Australia or anywhere. The only racism comes from people who don’t believe that Indonesians should enjoy the same high standard of judicial process that we do.

Of course all Australians should boycott Bali and the rest of Indonesia. It seems obvious that you don’t have to be guilty of any crime to suffer at the hands of their backward justice system. Why would you take the risk?

People like Rainier amaze me with their hypocrisy. Their “compassion” (what a joke – the most bastardised word in the English language) only seems to extend to people subject to liberal, humane laws enacted by the Australian Commonwealth. Break (or not) any laws from a justice system based upon 19th century backwardness and it’s a great big “who cares?” Selective compassion is a great defining element of our enlightened intellectual superiors. You’d think they’d be able to see this if they’re so enlightened and intelligent. I suppose this is where arrogance comes in.

The Chief Judge in Corby's case, who is a Christian, has said he is not responsible to the people, but to God.

Well Linton Sirait, you should ask youself whether one can profess Christianity and impose cruel and disproportionate sentences on offenders. A Christian legal system is a rehabilitative--not a retributive--system.

Pharisees: "Teacher, this woman was caught in the very act of comitting adultery. Now in the law Moses commanded us to stone such women."
Jesus: "Let anyone among you who is without sin cast the first stone."

(all the Pharisees went away)

Jesus: "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?"
Woman: "No one, sir."
Jesus: "Neither do I condemn you. Go your way, and from now on do not sin again."

Linton Sirait, save yourself from hypocrisy: resign, and then repent.

Well now, let’s not forget our own criminal justice system...but then again lets...so we can be pious and narrow. It clear now that the cultural cringe some experience about Australian attitudes is a virtue for others...
I was about to provide some statistical information about the disproportionate representation of Indigenous peoples, the detention of people simply wanting to become Australians, and even something about our immigration laws. But then I thought, what’s the point...

I think that there is a serious issue as to whether the continental law system meets the criteria set down in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html. While it appears to be silent on the question of guilt beyond reasonable doubt, it does prescribe a presumption of innocence in penal matters (Article 11). I've written a short blog post on the issue http://ambit-gambit.nationalforum.com.au/archives/000631.html, and it seems to me that there is an issue here with more than the Indonesian legal system, as well as some developments in our own where basic human rights issues are being ignored in law making.

You're right Rainier - there's absolutely no point in whineing about Australian laws when you're quite happy for people in other parts of the world to be subject to much more horrendous processes.

I respect anyones right to have a position in relation to asylum seekers etc. but what I can't understand is why you don't have the moral fortitude to condem abuses where ever they occur in the world. Isn't an Indonesian or a Cuban worth as much as you? How come an Iraqi is only worthy of consideration when he is illegally attempting to enter Australia?

Just some of the mysteries of perverted compassion.

I have a sad feeling that the defence in this case relied more on generating public sympathy in Australia, than offering anything of substance in the Indonesian court.

I hope that as the details of what actually occured in this case/trial are made public, I am proven wrong.

The point is that there is a presumption of an absence of innocence. Which may be infered as guilt. There is a presumption of being guilty of trafficking as opposed to possession, when statutory quantity is reached, and the burden of proving one is not guily of the more serious offence SHIFTS to the ACCUSSED.

The fact that the accussed went thru gate A (possession of an illicit drug) to end up at gate B (presumption of guilt in trafficking) does not, in any way, alter the fact that there is a REVERSAL of the burden of proof and the presumption of innocence with regard to trafficking.

Further evidence of the reality that Australia is evolving a system that has a basic disregard for the presumption of innocence is the introduction of sniffer dogs in public places, sniffing out the crotches of all and sundry for the POSSIBILITY that they MAY be in possession of, or have been in contact with, illicit drugs. The existence of such fishing expediations presumes criminality which implies guilt. Ergo... guilty until proven innocent.

Check this out... http://svc026.wic004dp.server-web.com/snifferdogs/thesituation.asp

Some quotes.

... The Use of police sniffer dogs continues to occur around the streets, bars and venues of Sydney. This inappropriate use of police power at public expense searches huge numbers of people without reason or warrant. Some activities involve the unlawful detention of patrons

... People detained in bar while sniffer dogs used to search everyone on premises ...police block the entrances and exits to a bar and then either take the sniffer dog through the bar or ask everyone to file out past the dog.

We can quible over semantics ad infinitum. It doesn't change the fact that a presumption of guilt exists in various forms. Qualify the existence of that reality any which way you like.

The article about rule of law was correct, and one must at least "respect" the right of every citizenry to create and maintain their own judicial system. It is they who must live or die by it! This is the case, whether it be Indonesia, Saudi Arabia or the USA.

That leaves us, as Australians, to decide whether we wish to engage with that political system or that country. I take the view that if I don't agree with that system I will not engage it, nor will I support it (economically or otherwise). End of story. If you don't want to end up in an Indonesian gaol, don't go to Indonesia !!

What disturbs me greatly is that Chapelle Corby (and possibly others) may be the innocent victims of drug trafficking by baggage handlers - and that NO-ONE seems to be doing anything about it!!

Luggage is carried under the Genva convention and it seems that this secure pact is now under threat or destroyed. In case you doubt me, I'll relate an incident which occurred to me in the USA recently. When departing Los Angeles one has to submit one's luggage to hand searches before it is loaded. The luggage must be left unlocked and is then "sealed" afterwards with a plastic tag and paper sticker. I noticed that one of the staffers from the Dept. of Homeland Security was annotating some bag's tags. I turned to the woman standing next to me and asked what they were doing. Her response was:
"Don't you know?" (She being a local and me an Aussie)
"They note which ones contain valuable items and that is a signal to their friends out the back to remove the stuff and sell it on the black market".
I was absolutely shocked at the implications of this.
Further, on the same trip, my colleage had the misfortune to have his suitcase "searched" for dangerous goods (in absentia). His was an "oyster" style suitcase and was locked with 3 integral combination locks. The Dept of Homeland Security smashed all the locks (basically exploding the whole suitcase) and re-packed the contents by wrapping it all up with kms of plastic and enclosing an apologetic note. The strange part is, that some of his personal effects were missing and there also appeared to be miscellaneous items belonging to someone else amongst his belongings. Now..... what if we'd being going on to Indonesia and that there had been some other substances included......?? Doesn't bear thinking about does it?

IMMEDIATE ACTION: Customs and Immigration needs to implement a SECURE baggage certification procedure to guarantee that travellers' belongings are not tampered with once they have been checked in. It is done in some Eurpean countries, why not here?

Ullavatar (sorry if i've misspelt) the Dept of Homeland Security sounds a tad Orwellian, especially after your experience. What country was it, and doesn't it just go to highlight that we are in the lap of the baggage handlers regarding being able to move safely from a to b. Like the Mary Magdalene equation, very true. This story ain't over yet until the expose has been done in the places that need to be under the microscope, otherwise, it will happen again and again.

One of the statements by the concluding Judge was that she could not identify who owned or placed the drugs in her bag. Was she able to?

Suppose you were a non-drug user attending a night club raided by the police and someone dropped dope into your handbag to hide it and you had no idea who had unloaded it into your handbag. How are you going to prove who owned the drugs if it found in a bag you owned? Under Indonesian law possession of drugs is guilt enough to face the firing sqad or imprison you for life.

Before the drugs are burned let us get some fingerprints on the internal bag!!

Rainer,Anglosaxons don't have the monopoly on racism.Yes there are certain sections of our culture that will indulge in such feelings out of ignorance and insecurity.This however is not the domininant motivation in the Shappelle Corby injustice.Many of us have been to Indonesia and sensed these wrongs,put them to the back of our minds and enjoyed our holidays.

The real evil is that ordinary Indonesians suffer these injustices on a daily basis.Theirs is a suppressed culture that creates a festering sore of resentment that radical religious fundamentalists are using to blame us for their lot.

Perhaps Shapelle can be the catalyst for the beginnings of some reform.The Indonesians don't need encouragement to indulge themselves as the victims of of some racist Aussie plot.They need to look at the reality of corruption that perverts and enslaves their entire culture.

It need not be a loss of face for Indonesia if we are tactful but also we have to be honest in our approach.

You miss my point Arjay,
Perhaps that’s the difference; I couldn't go to Indonesia/Bali and ‘sense these wrongs, put them to the back of my mind and enjoy my holidays any more than I could if I saw it happen here. And many Anglo people here in Australia have been protesting the injustices in Indonesia for years. Like me they know its history and injustices all too well.
All of a sudden Bali (the place to go and be an 'international fun loving Anglo Aussie tourist' just went belly up. I think this informs the perceptions more than the Corby issue. I mean how they dare muck up’distrupt a holiday destination for urban Australian tourists who have been selling and buying dope there for years!

The total idea of a boycott of all things bali-related is actually ludicrious. What do you hope to achieve? Please tell me.... hmmm, that the judges will see what a nice bunch you are, and feel so offended that they have done the wrong thing? Boycotting will only lead to a negative support from Bali tourists who frequently go to australia and buy its products. What goes around, comes around.

In any court, australian or balinese, it is guilty until proven innocent (not innocent until proven guilty).

And Di, for your information, I do not read any of the tabloids. The fact that i said that she had many husbands came from a bulletin/news.com.au article.. Anyhow, my point of including this is that the media should not portray her as an angel...

That Chapelle had many husbands is defamation material and scurrolous untruth. Perhaps her lawyers could chase some of these rumour mongers to assist in financing her case.

Quote, "Anyhow, my point of including this is that the media should not portray her as an angel..."

She was a typical Aussie woman of her age, and any attempt to defame her are from vindictive minds

Everyone, please remember that racism works both ways. (i.e. you would be very mistaken to assume that some Australians hate Indonesians and not consider that some Indonesians hate Australians.)

For my part, I believe most Indonesians do not have much time for Australia or Australians. That's despite our VERY generous tsunami relief package and private donations. It may be due to our past involvement in helping East Timor, in addition to the Islamic extremists in Indonesia that would influence Indonesian's hatred of our nation and Australians. And like Rainer said, if Australians are behaving like pigs when they go to places like Bali, this would also influence Indonesian's hatred of us.

Australians (and I include myself here) probably don't like Bali or Indonesia because we know a lot about the Sukarno/Soeharto era and the endemic corruption that went on there during those times and is still rampant in the country (just do a Google search for the number of hotels/malls/developments owned by members of the Suharto family, for example).

Therefore, let me summarise - racism works both ways; it isn't racist to comment on another country's justice system; and finally, read up on the Suharto period in particular...

Keep batting those pretty blue's and the suckers will continue to support you Corby.

What a joke!It's not big brother people it's real life. The Corby supporters need to get a life.

How does racism work both ways? I hear and read this all the time but never understood a deeper explanation about what racism is or how it works like a two way street.

What I do witness is a variability of explanation about racism is derive from its position of power and privilege vis-á-vis particular nonwhite others. I've never witnessed a white Australian explicitly explain it means to be a white Australian.(besides pointing to the usual artifacts of nationalistic representation, mateship, the flag, etcetera) . Its because of this total absence of explanation about what it means to be a white Australian that we witness this outpouring and accusation. Indeed while Australians cannot tell you who they are, they can and do tell you who they are not, but its not the same thing.

Perhaps because they don't have to, perhaps because they've never really been asked? I sense the shock of seeing a white Australian women is a court administered by non-white people in a country where "charitable works" were performed is most definitely at the heart of current anti-Indonesian sentiment.

I can't help but think that if this was a British court, it would not be called two-way racism. I know that Surya Deva's article did not touch upon this but I also sense he knows this to be a dominant subtext to asking 'us' to respect the rule of law.

Try, as Surya Deva has, It seems clear to me that you will fail in trying to compel people who already have a sense of racial superiority over Indonesians to respect the rule of law in their own nation state.

As reflected in these forums, the Corby case literally embodies the malleable nature of Australia's engagement with Asia. Many of the posters here simply utilise this woman's plight to push their own barrows, whether these be racist, populist, internationalist, legalistic, stereotypical, humanist or whatever orientation.

This is, of course, the nature of 21st-century Australian sociality: we hang our prejudices on media-created factoids, which we deploy creatively as we go about constructing our individual and social 'realities'.

I think that the Schapelle narrative is a work-in-progress - and I for one find it an extremely revealing one. For her sake, I sincerely hope that it has a happy ending.

I am disgusted with the reaction of the Australian people regarding Shapelle Corby, I would like to think that Australians have the capacity to take a step back from the media hype and consider why this case has played out the way that it has, the Indonesian government is not about to commit a "gross miscarriage of justice" in such a powerfull spotlight of passionate Australians nor would the Aus. gov allow it.

To the people in the "know" there is no doubt as to her guilt, are they to release her because the Australian public feels sorry for her because of the way that she has been portrayed.

In usual circumstances, we would commend a country for taking a hard line on drugs, why is this different. If Shapelle DECIDES to smuggle drugs into a foriegn country she deserves to be convicted based on the way that country views drugs and how they are affected by it.

Consider this hypothetical, an Indonesian Smuggles drugs into this country, gets caught and convicted, how would we feel if Indonesians threaten to boycott our country and pull money from much needed charity organisations because they "believe" that this person is innocent. Shapelle has disgraced this country and is promoting hatred towards another through lies and manipulation - no sympathy here.

I would like to apologise to the Indonesians and commend the judges for not being intimidated by thoughtless australians, and pursuing justice.

I am about as patriotic towards this country as you can get but, i'd like to say "pull your head in, Australia

Mind you, if schapelle had been a bloke, he would have been shot immediately.

Rainer, in terms of racism working both ways, it's quite pronounced here and in other countries.

Some fine examples of where racism is a two-way street in the US can be found in Pat Buchanan's book, "Death of the West". In the book he explains how a lot of people see white hating black as the only way racism works. And he does state that indeed, racism against blacks does occur by whites. However, he also explains how racially crimes committed by blacks against whites are significantly higher than those committed by whites.

In terms of Australia, there are often crimes committed by Aboriginals against whites and I know from personal experience, that Aboriginals are just as racist sometimes. My dad works as a government roads engineer and he was out on a road when two young Aboriginal kids came over and started calling him "white trash" and the like. In Adelaide we used to have real problems with Victoria Square. Aboriginals used to use the square to beg for money and this caused a lot of problems - not only because they were begging, but also because they used the money they recieved for buying alcohol. You can get the picture, I'm sure, but basically if you didn't give them money you were screamed at and in some cases, spat on.

And to Cell83 - I think the fact that the judge wouldn't accept any of Chapelle's witnesses nor do any finger printing on the bag speaks for complete and utter corruption. I cannot believe how daft people are in thinking that Indonesia's justice system is so fantastic and that this case should just be accepted like any other. I'm also digusted by Cell83's attack on Corby. I doubt very much that YOU would cope as an innocent person in a Balinese jail cell and so it is with Corby.

Dinhaan,

What does the Indonesian's have to gain from "corrupting" Shapelle's case, you seem quite convinced of her innocents, if you have any information I suggest you give it to the authorities. Shapelle's case has been reviewed extensively by Australian authorities also. i think you'll find that a diplomatic approach to the release of information about her guilt is being considered.

Posters, there's a bit of round and round the mulberry bush happening. I will boycott Indonesia, not because I hate the people, rather, the fact that I cannot guarantee that if i was going on holiday to Indonesia/bali, I would arrive there drug free (via Qantas) into a country that would give me a death penalty. I might risk flying to Paris via Virgin with a lover stashed in my boogie board bag. That would be different. I don't think it's racism against the Indonesian govt, i think it's a wake up call for all of us who have travelled around with the "there but for the grace of god go i". Qantas may have gotten the best advertisement going from "Rain Main" but I wouldn't trust them with my pet dead rat in a sealed box in cargo! That's the dilemma, not the colour of Corby's eyes. Down with Qantas!

Di, Ok, you get my vote for the “Kath and Kim Personality” Online Opinion poster for 2005. Look at moi!

Dihaan, I'm still mulling over how I should respond to your last post about your experiences of racism. It must have been life shattering for you and your Dad to be confronted by those horrible aborigines. Goodness me! (Watch this space)

Personally, I doubt seriously if I would wind up in Bali, or anywhere else for that matter with drugs in my luggage because I would not have put any there, and the chances of anyone else putting them there and then forgetting about them would be rather slim, I'm thinking.

BUT, Di,if your problem with going to Bali is that drugs might mysteriously get into your luggage via a baggage handler on a domestic flight and then be "forgotten" and accidentally left there (can you imagine how mad this supposed baggage handler's drug boss was),then I would boycott all oversea's and domestic flights, as I doubt the incident would have had anything to do with her going to Bali, if indeed that was the scenerio. She might as easily been going to New Zealand or Tiawan or L.A. or anywhere, so a boycott of Bali, if these circumstances are to be believed, is rather silly. And, if she had arrived in any other country with those drugs in her luggage, I'm sure she would have recieved the same verdict. Only the sentence would have been different, perhaps worse, perhaps better.

It is time to get rational about this whole thing instead of being led along by the press. IF the problem is with the baggage handlers, then I think our main concern should be with security. I could fly quite comfortably to Bali with a few kilos of drugs someone smuggled into the baggage compartment, but a small bomb in there could really mess up my day.

If this situation has pointed out one thing to me, and frankly the only thing that I find very meaningful about the whole situation, it is that there is apparently a large hole in security at airports. If this is true, then it is true of all carriers. To heck with drugs...I don't use em and I don't care about them generally. I think they are personal choice. But if there is a chance drugs are being smuggled onto aircraft, then there is a good chance that anything could get on there.

Rainier, as you are struggling to find an appropriate response please permit me to make a suggestion.

You could try understanding. Any direct racist attack be it verbal or physical can be very distressing and unsettling. It places the recipient in a position where they wonder how far the situation may go and what an appropriate response is. Verbal abuse from a couple of kids may not be as damaging as not getting a job because of the color of your skin or getting assaulted etc but it is still something none of us should need to have in our lives merely because someone does not like a grouping we are part of.

What was with the Kath and Kim bit about the lovely Di's posting? I don't watch Kath and Kim so maybe I am missing something simple here.

Robert,
I'm still mulling over it. It takes deep thought to respond usefully to poeople whose own life experience of racism is minimal and incidental to how they organise their everyday life.

Thanks for your suggestion, but its an explanation I first encountered 40 years ago as a child. Its relevant but not rigorous.

Racism is a deeper and much more theoretic topic than many (especially to those whose lives are not organised by it) think.

So I ask again, what does it mean to be white? That you've never really needed to think about it should be a profound revelation, but it appears not to be the case. I suppose, that what it means to be white is never having to explain it or move beyond the comfort zone that this challenge is asking. That's what I've witnessed here in these posts and explanations about racism.

But don't count this as my definitive response to your posts thus far. It ain't.

rainier, im hazarding a guess here and im guessing that your posts would be confronting for most white people who are not aware of the white priveldge thing.

i think that you are correct in your comment about white people not having to think about what is or means to be white and how that doesnt form their everyday life behaviour.

read between the lines of the boycotting and return of tsunami aid monies and you get those dark skinned ingrates dont deserve our money let them rot in their 3rd world conditions. not very charitable really for a so called christian country. but then again if we look into the past history of australia we'd find some uncharitable acts then too mostly against aboriginal people.

the hysteria for corby is unreal but not surprising, racism is certainly alive and well in australia, i was aware of that before corby got busted.

there is a war on drugs people remember that and indonesia is playing its part in that war.

Rainier,
Very interested in your post about what it means to be white. I have two experiences where I felt very white indeed. White and ashamed, mind you, not white and proud. The first was in London where, newly off the plane, I went to a gathering at my (white) cousin's flat. All the other guests were black West indian. They began to question me quite rigorously about being Australian and asking whether all Australians were racist. This was about 10 years after the end of the white Australia policy. I felt, for the first time, that I wasn't an individual, just me, but somehow the representative of something that I didn't even approve of. It was not a nice feeling at all, but I didn't blame my fellow guests. They were simply treating me as they had been treated. Eventually, we became good friends.
The second time was a few years ago when I was privileged to be part of a group of white Australians who were "smoked" by indigenous people as a traditional welcome to their land (at North Head in Sydney). I have never felt more white or more English (I migrated here aged 5) in my life. I also felt foreign and alien and, yet, at the same time, more aware of what Australia is all about than I had ever done before. It was a humbling experience and that's why I call it a privilege.
Maybe to be white is to always see yourself as just representing you, as an individual and as always acceptable anywhere, whereas other groups represent all the members. A simple example; a bad woman driver represents all women, a bad, white male driver represents only himself. Maybe that is always the blind spot of belonging to the dominant culture. You are just you, you think you are the norm, but everyone else represents a "minority", or the "other". Their individuality, if you like, is always tainted by their background, race or gender.
Does that make any sense?

Well, there is very little doubt that Corby is guilty, but does she deserve 20 years in an Indonesian prison.

Asian society in general, is not third world, but more like 10th world. From Malaysia, Korea, Japan, Singapore or Indonesia, it doesn't really matter. Their human rights records are atrocious and there is little doubt they enjoy cruelty, dominance and thoroughly enjoy seeing others suffer. This planet would in fact be far better off if these Asian countries simply did not exist.

In Corby's case we need to put one over these imbeciles and bring her home rather than suffer the humiliation of a Balinese prison. The same applies for any other Europeans, Americans and Australians.

Justice

Rainer,it is not a problem of racism ,ie skin colour or body shape.It is a problem of "languagism".I have a problem of people coming to this country and not trying to learn the language.Our language has been butchered.How can I share a joke with someone who has no inkling of the complicated nuances of the Aussie vernacular.Even the yanks have a hard time understandering us.

We don't need our culture being swamped by a multi-cultural mentality ,whereby the rights of minorities over ride the mainstream culture.If you come to Australia,you should have a competent grasp of the our language.

Our neighbours are Indian, with very dark skin ,yet they are in my house daily,don't speak Hindi and have an excellent grasp of the Aussie language.

So get off your righteous high horse and broaden your horizons.
You colour too many differences in race with simple prejudice.It is more about language which facilitates interaction and understandering.

Enjay, such a great post and very well articulated and so damn right! We all get a bit over trying to justify our stance being neither left or right, or being black or white (I'm bastardising a bit of Leonard Cohen here) TO the poster that thinks i'm just a suburban girl, re Kath and KIm, it's a bit of a left hand compliment perhaps. I think that certain posters are a bunch of chunts. And I drink cardonnaaaaaaaay. (unless there's a nice dry sav blanc in the house.) Don't try and slag my opinion off in a forum that's bigger than your brain.

Just because you think i sound a certain way, that you may think is beneath you?. For all you know, I might be typing this with a pencil between my molars, whilst I'm doing my PHd on something you haven't even had introduced into your life. Posters bring their opinion and knowledge and sometime background into this. But don't even try to slag me off into some corner of your life that you choose to bring on line. Enough said? and stick to the issue?

Love your contributions here, Di :)

The heartless, and now evidently racist, Arjay reminds me of a little joke I used to have with my students in order to illustrate some of the limitations of the stereotypical 'Aussie' world view:

Q: What do you call someone who speaks several languages (i.e. most of the tribal world)?

A: Multilingual (or polyglot if you want to be fancy).

Q: What do you call someone who speaks two languages?

A: Bilingual (or educated).

Q: What do you call someone who speaks one language?

A: Aussie (or monolingual).

Fortunately, I no longer have students.

Even more fortunately, neither does Arjay.

Di and Arjay,
I agree with your position that it is language and not skin colour that creates noticeable racial difference. Having a common understanding of language its idioms and culture is what unifies people.

Aw shucks Garra (kiss amour) and co group hug and maybe over a glass of cardonay ( the h is soylent (thanks kath and kim) (green?) perhaps?

Firstly as Rainer stated, racism is a deep and theoretical issue and many people do not comprehend it. The reason for this is that racism is only a small part of a larger problem, racism is a sub category of discrimination, and each and every type of discrimination is as bad as the last. The problem is everyone falls to discrimination whether they like it or not, but the level of discrimination is what separates the opinionative from the bigots. If I was to say I believe that men are stronger then women that makes me opinionative, if I say women should obey men because we are stronger, that would makes me a bigot. Arjay, I don’t quiet understand what you were trying to prove with your remarks about “our language”, but if someone doesn’t understand your joke that is your failing not theirs. Your remark there makes you a bigot. I missed the bit at immigration that said people had to learn Australian English so that they can understand your jokes. If you were to visit Japan would you take the time to learn Japanese? Study their culture? And make sure you had everything down so that you were not too be offending anyone? I doubt you would, you would probably go there and make do with whatever you could manage at the time. The truth is learning another person’s culture and language is not easy, and not everyone will be able to do it, if we all could, we would have achieved world peace long ago. But I find it funny that you say that language is more defining then skin color in modern times and in the next sentence show your prejudice towards people who do not speak the same language as you in the way you want them too. Its your who needs to get off your high horse. Next you will tell us that people are making death threats to Indonesian restaurants because they can’t speak English well and not because they are Indonesian?

Oh Garra,where would you be without your notion of a comfort blanket of white anglo saxion racism.Will your life be so devoid of intent that you will have to consider self harm?

To have this singular notion of my perceived foibles snatched from your bosom ,must be a cataclysimic experience.Your derision and venom tell us much about your lies upon which many of your ilk have used to perpetuate the notion that most anglo saxions are racists.I have snatched your comfort blanket of racist righteousness in a single sentence.Sorry about that?

No, Garra, all other cultures have the same needs,ie to be have social interaction and cohesion.Language is the facilitator.To be bi or tri lingual is ideal,but how many languages can you learn in your life time?

I stand by my assertion that all people in this country should be fluent in English,since this is the glue which bonds our nation.

Arjay wrote of me:

"So get off your righteous high horse and broaden your horizons".

Please provide me with some criteria for broadening and I'll happily provide you with evidence of the broadness of my life thus far.

Here are some examples:

I've lived in more than one country, I speak more than two languages, I'm highly literate in the English language and I was born right here in Australia. I work in a field that brings me into contact with many cultures and ethnicities and so my professional and personal approach to work and life must comprehend and react effectively to this diversity.

Should I be mono-lingual, didactic in opinion, xenophobic and homophobic, blokey, just so you can have the exclusive right to call me an Australian? Do you really want me to want me to indulge this construction of yourself as real and legitimate?

It’s this type of ugly Australian attitude that gives this country the bad reputation on the world stage that it [unfortunately] richly deserves.

I just hope that one day you see that what while you might find it difficult to discuss your ‘ethnicity’ and that of others without acrimony, many of us don’t. My discussion [you should note] has been about interogating whiteness, and its articulation as an exclusive category of ‘Australianess’ in the discourse over the Corby case.

For example, you and others have chosen to call this Anglo Saxon, without ever really explaining what this means. Is Anglo Saxon a race or a culture? Surely you are able to name your ethnicity as more than simply nationalism without resorting to denigrating others? If this is difficult for you, why is it?

You’ll no doubt respond to this with your usual diatribe about how wrong I and others are, but that’s ok, I’m willing to help you get over yourself, even if you aren’t.

It's culture (and I use that term loosely, as I don't think Australian's have a gold plated handle on it) but also language. I grew up in Sydney, moved to Melbourne, so had a lot of Asian 'looking" friends that had Aussie accents because they were born and bred here. So was often surprised when country cousins expressed amazement that they could talk "english" to those "slopeheads". Like we all expect Aussie Jews to only talk Yiddish? Australians are such inverted snobs re: class, culture, education and background, unless one has made a conscious effort to eschew it. I can remember about 10 years ago that a work colleague who was 24 (I was around 33). She had a "degree" and I had just completed a Diploma. Expressed great surprise in the tea room that I had just read (without my lips moving) Anna Karenina. We all subconciously stereotype however it only becomes offensive when we voice it.

back to the issue, I think as a people, we all have the right to critise any law that is "primitive" in what it hands out. Regardless of Shapelle being this or that. I think that the US laws are pretty primitive in a lot of aspects. No country has perfect laws, but thank goodness for people who question and ultimately change the laws.

Rainer,let's cut to the chase.I say we need a single language that unifies our nation.Yes,many can be multi-lingual,but they also must be proficient in English,so our country functions both socially and economically.Indonesia has 500 different languages and just as many dialects,do you think this might be inhibiting their social cohesion?

Stop rambling on about racism and look at the need for social cohesion.Prove me wrong! Put up or shut up!

social cohesion or assimilation?

Arjay seems to have had an overdose of bitter pills. Australia has an official language - English (as does Indonesia - Bahasa). Both nations, however, are enriched by cultural diversity, which is often expressed linguistically.

While I agree that a common language is necessary for the construction and maintenance of a national identity, it's not necessary to try and impose it on people in order to try and 'assimilate' them. Since English is the language of commerce, education and government in this country, the vast majority of immigrants learn it at least at a functional level in order to be able to take part in employment and to access goods and services.

Second-generation immigrants generally speak English as well as most native-born Australians, except that they are advantaged by their bilinguality. I for one am grateful for the reciprocal enrichment of our language and culture that diversity in immigration has brought us.

Heaven forfend that our language be limited to the 'strine' that is lampooned by e.g. 'Kath & Kim' (not to mention the lovely Di)!!

Arjay, Je pense que le racisme est la raison fondamentale de l'appui de Corby, et des thats assez bons pour moi!

Shapelle Corby! now there's a name that hasn't had a mention in a while, strange..... that's what this forum is about.

Garra, merci bon ami. Rainer, jes nest ca pais? Viva la difference bellas!
Mais tu est bon ami!

So Garra,our humour and Aussie character is reduced to "strine" and Rainer retreats to France,the most arrogant of our linguists who have shot themselves in both feet with a laisse faire immigration policy.

Language is the soul of your culture since it takes years to learn all the nuances.Cultures should evolve and not be swamped by overwhelming change that creates distrust and division.I think we have past the point of no return and will become more a country of conflict,rather than co-operation.Just look at the Laws against vilification of religions now in Victoria that they are trying to introduce into NSW.Even if you speak the truth about a religion you can be fined and goaled.This is a serious precident, since using the same logic Govts can gaol us all for speaking facts.This has all happened because we are afraid of offending the Muslims, in the name of racial harmony.The NSW Dept of Education buckled to the wearing of Muslim headress which had no bearing religious beliefs.[ie it isn' compulsory]Can Papuans now wear only penis gourds to school since this is part of their culture.Where is the common ground?Can we go to Saudi Arabia and open a Christian or agnostic school and please ourselves?Not if you value your life.Just produce a half decent argument or admit defeat.

Moning tru olgeta :)

Mi tingting dispela Arjay igat waialus long het bilong en! Em toktok mauswara tumas. Tingting bilong en i bagarap tru!

hmmmm well well before i start i will mention a few things first there are 8 countries that use the same legal system as indonesia,so it is not just them who use this system.
now poor old innocent chapelle huh hmmmmmm isnt it strange the bag of ganga fits perfectly in the boogy board pouch if it was a inch bigger it would not fit.
and her sister marry to a indo how convienient what happened chapelle what u made it through all the other times huh!
and yes to the know all out there,there is a demand for it there as there mull is crap and aussies will pay heaps for skunk there.

she got busted pure and simple
and if u all are so sure she is innocent WELL FIND THE GUILTY ONE THEN what u cant find him what do u mean,he must be out there coz chapelle said she is innocent !

Schapelle may not be our daughter, but we feel for her as if she was.

When Pauline Hanson was wrongly imprisoned I pointed out in my book (published on 30 September 2003)

INSPECTOR-RIKATI® on CITIZENSHIP
A book on CD about Australians unduly harmed.
ISBN 0-9580569-6-X

Why I held she was wrongly convicted and did set out the legal issues. The Court of appeal subsequently used those very grounds to overturn the convictions.

With Schapelle, I wrote to the Indonesian President, several times, setting out my concerns, and indicating that drugs could have simply been planted after the baggage was unloaded from the plane, as other Australians experienced. Hence, she would not have smuggled any drugs whatsoever into Indonesia in that regard either.
Even so, I requested copies of the correspondence to be send to Schapelle’s lawyers, the question is was it done, or withheld from them? After all, the various set outs may very well assist her in her appeal, and ensure she gets free.

We must not give up to seek Schapelle being freed as an innocent victim of some drug cartel and continue to support her in every way we can.

Surya Deva I was fascinated to read your article posted on 27 May regarding Indonesian law 'argueing the rule of law must be respected regardless of the jurisdiciton and no matter how unpalatable.'

I am wondering now with the arrest / charge / release of Michelle Leslie you still feel the same way. Both cases (Corby / Lesley) were very similar in that the drugs were planted with absolutely no knowledge; and that both girls could produce no evidence to substantiate their claims.

Fortunately for Michelle she wasn’t an underprivileged beauty therapist student from Queensland, working hard in her parents’ fish and chip shop to fund her trip to Bali; she was someone who spent her recreational time with sons and daughters of rich and influential Indonesian officials hence the lighter sentence and now freedom.

If that’s not a corrupt government please tell me one that is!