BOAZ_David, if I got the tone of that post wrong please accept my apologies. I think I got where you were coming from and tried fairly hard to not make it sound like an attack but rather bringing some issues up for discussion.

I think we all do what you refered to to some extent. The issues I raised are about what happens when that goes too far. Good for us all to think about.

Likewise most of us probably favor people with similar "somethings" when we want to do business be it language,culture, beliefs etc. That can be a healthy thing but it can also stifle our exposure to others. Again a hard mix to get just right.

Lucking of a national integrity but “proud of their backgrounds” hardly finds much common in a same group supposed being a team. That is why employment on biologically motivated grounds leads to eventual misunderstanding in more abstract issues as geopolitics is.

"Josh" writes:
"To compare the abject squalor of the Palestinians with the wealth of their Israeli neighbors and then to complain about the Palestinians receiving aid!! You must be Jewish.."

1) Is that important, "Josh?" Whether I'm Jewish or not?

2) I have no "complaints" about the aid the Palestinians get. I think they should get even more help to build a decent state of their own. Unfortunately too much of the money intended to help them has been diverted to their corrupt leadership, or is in the form of pledges never been acted upon.

Donor nations pledged over $1 billion to the Palestinians late last year, and so far have delivered only about $100 million. Much of these pledged funds are from oil-rich Arab states whose oil revenues have INCREASED in the past year by some $50 billion. They could probably afford $1 billion for aid to the PA.

The Bush Administration has requested ~ $350 million from Congress for aid to the Palestinian Authority, and Mahmoud Abbas came away from his meeting last week at the White House with a pledge for another $50 million.

The Palestinians have a whole UN agency devoted solely to THEIR refugee issues. See

http://www.un.org/unrwa/
The UNRWA has a staff of ~25,000, and budget of ~$340 million this year.

The Palestinians are not "ignored."

Per-capita aid to Palestinian refugees is quite high compared to other refugee groups. Whether it has done much to improve their living conditions is another question.

Aid to Israel is also quite high but is nearly matched by aid to Egypt, Jordan, Bahrain, and Turkey. The Bush Admin's budget request for FY2004 included

$2.3 billion for Israel
$1.3 billion for Eqypt
~ $450 million in combined economic and military aid for Jordan (plus about a dozen F-16s)
$25 million in military aid for Bahrain.
Several hundred million for Turkey (sorry I don't have the figures).

As I've said earlier, I (and most Israelis actually) think the Palestinians deserve and should get their own state, and to have their legitimate grievances addressed.

"Josh" further writes:

3) "Did you miss something? You must be a bit slow. You missed the fact THE ARABS WITHDREW almost FORTY YEARS AGO. If only Israel had done the same."

The Arabs were DRIVEN out of Gaza and the West Bank in the June 1967 War by Israeli forces. I suggest you start with Michael Oren's excellent book on the June 1967 war: "Six Days of War: June 1967 and the Making of the Modern Middle East."

4) Be careful getting your information from Google searches of the type you suggest, as this yields links to a lot of Neo-Nazi, White Supremacist web sites. If this what you consider reliable information, you won't get far debating these topics.

These are serious issues, and they require serious, mature, intelligent consideration, not bigoted tirades. I look forward to you joining the club.

Everyone: feel free to refute anything I've written with credible facts and reliable information. I'll stand corrected.

I went to Israel once. In 1988.
I saw the Church of the Nativity.
I saw soldiers.
I saw the Church of the Holy Sepulchre.
I saw hate, suspicion and superstition.
I saw the Temple Mount (complete with mosque).
I saw fear.
I saw the Western Wall.
I saw hypocrisy.
I arrived on a bus as an atheist.
I left on a plane as something else.

Is there a word for "Beyond Atheism"
How about Meta-atheism? Mega-atheism?
Anybody else got a suggestion?

Priscillian,

I believe the disease you picked up while there was the same disease they all had.

I suggest we not add to the problem of hate in the world but determine to show some compassion to those who live on a diet of fear and hate. I realise a man 2000 years ago tried healing and forgivness to these same people only to be crucified. But at least in his dying breath forgave his tormentors. Spread a little love around and someone one day might forgive and smile.