I am grateful, I am grateful I am a free spirit, I am grateful to be proud to be a woman, I am grateful I have a sense of fun, I am grateful I am intelligent enough not to be a fashion victim and wear what I like and what makes me feel good (which applies to most women except for Paris Hilton - tragic fashion victim), I am grateful not to be in countries where women are forced to cover up. I am grateful I am not a man because I think I would be in a permanent state of confusion.

But most of all I am grateful NOT to be timkins daughter.

;)

Zena,
Thanks for the insult, although it was unsubstantiated and without reference to anything, and you know next to nothing about my daughter or myself.

However as a father and a parent I do have rights and duties to ensure that my daughter is dressed suitably, and that does include wearing sun protection.

Unfortunately it becomes very difficult when there are so many messages being sent from the media that encourage children to wear the fashions and act the part of adult celebrities, many of whom would not be good role models even for other adults.

Timtam no one is disputing the use of sunscreen and that's not what the topic is about.

Reading your posts leads me to believe that you exercise an extreme level of control over your daughter. If this is not the case then, please, you are welcome to disabuse me of that notion.

I am very grateful that I share my life with open minded people who love me for who I am rather than how I look.

thanks for the post Xena, and i am rather glad we are not Timkins' daughters, otherwise i would suspect he would be locking us up in the attic until we were well past our use by date! (regardless of what we are wearing!) Robert, my whole intention was to demystify the way you see us clothed ( or unclothed) and how us women see it. It's been a long road to Damascus, but honestly, unless we're the Angelina Jolie, coming to a pub near you, we all kind of figure it looks good (and hopefully we'll meet a guy). I think that we women are not too sure (still) about how you guys think on the visual thing. My partner of eight years recently told me he thought i looked sexy in this certain number (and no, we're not talking about a safari suit!) which I certainly saw as an old flanellette "comfort" number. Go figure. I chucked it in the bin anyway. Horses for courses. I must say, I have certainly enjoyed this forum and you guys opening up the way you see it on your side. It's been an entertaining, insightful and delightful to and fro.

Xena,
You can spend time outdoors feeling autonomous without suitable clothing protection from the sun I suppose. Clothing that does not provide suitable protection is frequently being advertised for women, but I don’t allow my daughter to wear such clothing, as a parental duty to protect her skin from skin cancer.

But it is really not for me to” disabuse” your inferences or insults about myself and my daughter, it is for you to properly prove them in the first place. I have noticed in your posts you rarely try and prove what you say, but expect others to automatically believe what you write.

It can be arranged that a third party checks that you know who I am, and who my daughter is. If you can’t provide such simple details, then your rather personalised insults and inferences regards myself and my daughter are definitely unsubstantiated (ie Made Up).

Your unsubstantiated personalised insults and inferences are not a form of debate, but another form of “emotional manipulation” that I have written about previously, and I don’t equate “emotional manipulation” from a woman as being the same as autonomy.

Your unsubstantiated personalised insults and inferences about another person who posts onto this forum also constitutes flaming, and you are quite free to recommend that your own posts be deleted.

Di,
Please provide your substantiated evidence that my daughter is locked in the attic or anywhere else.

If you can’t provide this evidence then and you are quite free to recommend that your own post be deleted also.

Hi team, er.. Di, have u "got religion" or something ? referring to the road to Damascus is kinda like honey to a bee with me, makes me want to explore more, but that would be off topic.

TOPIC.
Suzie Zhang. I tend to support the magistrates view, because her extra work behavior showed that she had no qualms about being viewed as a 'sex object' i.e. miniskirts and sexy poses in a bikini. The point the magistrate raised, would not apply for a conservative girl who had not done these things, but in a case which is required to examine evidence, the attitude and attire of the girl in question are actually 'facts' which are relevant to the essense of the complaint "It made me into a sex object". The magistrate is correct in pointing out that 'being a sex object' is something she has no problem with, and it is on the public record, directly contradicting her expression of feeling like a sex object, and therefore her complaint is without foundation. I have little sympathy for her, though I would have strong sympathy for a girl who had not displayed her self thus, and complained in a similar way. Zhang appears to have been after BUCKs. The magistrate has a right to make a determination of her true motivation, based on evidence. I would make the same call if it was a guy who complained about the same issue.

I can also see the point of the 'contra' side, about a boss not being able to dictate how an employee should dress, and I do tend to support the idea that 'dress code' should be an up front 'here are the rules, read them and if u can't follow them, walk now' kind of thing. At the same time, I feel that a boss has a right to guide the dress code of the employees in 'harmony with the goals and atmosphere of the establishment'. A girl in a granny/librarian outfit working as
the 'image girl' for a gym kinda just does not cut it.