omygodnoitsitsitsyou, that must be why both Howard and Bush were re-elected with increased majorities? Thanks for sharing your exceptional social insight.

Just because alot of politically conservative values happen to coincide with alot of Christian values does not mean both are inextricably linked, although the dodering Maddox tries to prove otherwise.

Gee thanks Peter, I got chastised for straying from the topic “We are not discussing the Bible” and then you spent three paragraphs discussing the Bible. Still, contradictions are a part of your belief system so are perhaps to be expected.

I’ve read many parables of the bible, lately from the excellent online source that is the Skeptics Annotated Bible (http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/index.html), which handily highlights all the contradictions, violence, absurdities and incorrect ‘facts’ of the text. So much for “the most active opponents of Christianity are not so ill-informed to question the validity of The Good Book from a factual perspective”.

Mark is a great source for studying parables:
Mark 4:11
And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:

Mark 4:12
That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.

So Jesus told stories in parables so outsiders would not understand his teachings and would duly burn in hell.
You can also see this unfold with Lego bricks: http://www.thebricktestament.com/the_gospels/use_of_parables_explained/mk04_33-34.html

Sure, there is plenty of historical fact in the bible – and much work is still being done by archaeologists to substantiate a lot of it – but the important bits to Christians ‘God created the earth’ ‘man in his own image’ ‘a tree spoke to Moses’ ‘Christ rose from the dead’ are all way more far-fetched than anything in the Da Vinci Code, or Maddox’s (weak) argument

You are right Greg. I apologise for being drawn into the debate regarding the Bible itself. I was simply frustrated by your inaccurate statement about the Bible being a book of fables and am pleased to see that you accept it does indeed contain much more - including fact. ("Sure, there is plenty of historical fact in the bible...")

Unlike Maddox's book, I find the Bible to be a great source of inspiration, truth, wisdom and relevant teaching on how to do life well - and millions agree with me. Of course you clearly don't agree - but what makes you want to attack it so much? It an interesting thought isn't it?

Greg, one reason the mention of the Bible quickly leads to a discussion 'of' The Bible, I guess, is that so many millions in the world base their lives on it.

But then, there are some things which have been popularized "Its a book of fables" which also evoke at times outrage (from the insecure) and caring criticism from the more restful in the faith, and then there are those of us who happen to be in a more carnal mood when we read such things as yours and the old 'flesh' takes over and we just want to 'win an argument' :) (nudge nudge Peter, Numbat :)

I'd like to correct one matter with you, related to your quote. You took it at face value and decided it was 'harsh'. You could have picked a much 'beefier' verse, "You think I came to bring peace ? No, I came to turn son against father.....etc" ( u can look that one up)

But on the one u gave, it is a common misunderstanding to attempt to apply 'our' mindset to some of Scripture which is so richly connected to the Old Testament and the Prophets, to a point where we actually miss the point of what Jesus was saying.

Pls keep in mind, he was speaking to Jews, who had a particular heritage.
See this link for more information on the cultural/historical/religious background to Jesus statement in Mark 4.11-12
http://bible.gospelcom.net/passage/?search=Is%206:9;%2043:8;%20Jer%205:21;%20Ezek%2012:2;%20Matt%2013:14;%20Luke%208:10;%20John%2012:40;%20Rom%2011:8&version=49

U will quickly see how often this type of phrase was used by the prophets.

Keep up the challenging posts :)

I read the book. Brilliant. I am a secular humanist, formerly catholic. I'm libertarian, come from a rich and very conservative family. I, unlike stooges of the religious right, am forthright about my interests and background.

I'm also part of groups regularly under siege from the religiousright. Im not heterosexual in their eyes. I have been a welfare recipient for a long time. I have had episodic participations in prostitution. I use illicit substances. Every one of those groups is under constant siege of the fundy religious right.

Obviously a fundy religious type has to roll up in defense of his camp. Its because of a book written on the topic of the fundamentalist christian juggernaut's threat to our pluralistic free society. I speak also as a member of in fact several social groups currently under assault from the religious right. Perhaps Maddox has hit a raw nerve.

We talk about Jihad! I think conservative christianity is more of a threat to a supposedly democratic country than any other religion. {quote} Christianity and the associated morals and values......what are they other than lies, social and spiritual repression and recent finds such as touching up children while in the care of a christian god. History shows us over and over that power and greed has always been backed by religion and that war, murder and torture occured in the name of christianity. What's changed in your agenda? If you do not know it, current Australia is a potentially dangerous place for some individuals! My advice is move to Canada or Holland, you can live a more pro-active and respected life. I stopped believing in Advance Australia Fair long ago.