DavidJS – My mind is made up - Abortion is not Murder!

Abortion is a procedure a woman may authorise to be performed on her own body. It effects an embryo/fetus which is so joined to the woman that it is not “separate” and thus not “individual”.

Murder is an action by one individual (of group there of ) against a separate individual (or group there of)

Separation and sovereignty distinguishes the difference.

Cranky maybe you can tell me what medical credentials and insight you have to interpret the requirements of women who have to undergo an abortion at the 32nd week – if you do not, I guess, giving you a reason will be like offering food up to a stone idol – a waste of resource in pursuit of superstition.

As for the “man” and the delivered baby – simple – the birth enshrined the fetus with “individuality” it achieved by separation from the mother. Further – the man, even if he is the father, was not the mother.
Such crass attempts at analogy displays very limited insight in to the reality of issues surrounding such matters and the anguish which a woman faces when making a decision on later term abortion. Consider yourself lucky it is not you struggling with such a dilemma.


Ringtail – agree – the “woman” is consistently portrayed by anti-abortionists as either “nothing” (a life support system for the fetus) or worse – some selfish witch who indulges her whims by having abortions.

The reality is completely different.

She is a person possessing cognitive reasoning skills and generally quite capable of undertaking her own research on which to make her own decisions. Without assistance from interfering strangers dangerously obsessed with inflicting their “decision” upon her.

The thesis of her opinion....That the abortion debate is a waste of time as it won't change anything.

I have one question to ask. If it is a waste of time, why is she wasting her own time talking about it?

Clearly, she feels that it is not a waste of her time to discuss it, as this is her second article on the topic.

Perhaps she merely seeks to shut down any discussion of the topic, and calling it a waste of time is just a pitiful attempt to do that. Stiffling free debate and discussion is not exactly what we would expect in a free, democratic country, but I guess as long as Helen is happy with the status quo, we are not allowed to question it.

Finally, one quote sticks out

"Notably, even some supporters of abortion maintain that it is “technically illegal”, a meaningless category in law."

Is it really meaningless I wonder? If, for instance, in Queensland when the law seems to ban an abortion of convenience, the politcal party in power decides to direct the law enforcement people to start actually enforcing the law (Strange concept I know), then they already have a law in place to do so. If there was no law in place, one would need to be legislated (and then law enforcement would be directed to enforce it).

Clearly, there is a meaningful difference between the two. I am suprised Helen can't see it. Or maybe I am not....

What the author is getting at is this plain and simple.
The Polly's that are pushing this issue into the spot light these day's are not saying they want to make abortions illegal. So if they don't want to make them illegal why bring it up? The answer to that question is easy to. They do want to it is just they don't want to publicly fly their colors.
PS BOAZ_David as I’ve said before if you wish to show me some “proof” that slavery is ok then setup a webpage and share with all of us.

Er? it has been said that some see the mother as a life support system only. Well go to the top of the class you "genius?" because that is just what a mother's body is - a life support system for a one only unique human being. That is there will never be a person quite like the slain unborn - NEVER! The mother can choose because it's her body and the child is part of her body - garbage! The child is a separate entity, totally separate. So much so that in some cases if the mother's and child's blood intermingles then death could result for either or both. So without a trial or charge an innocent child is sentenced to death, rather brutal eh?
What in 'blue blazes' are you, ringtail, jabbering and blabbering on about, do you know? Because children are abused then kill them to stop the abuse. The execution and I may add a horribly and extremely painful execution of an innocent, unique baby is THE ULTIMATE in child abuse I should think. Regards, numbat

I feel sad for a man who thinks he wants to be a parent, but who can't find a woman who feels the same AND has enough confidence in him to enter into such a huge commitment. The trouble is that merely having sex does not make a bloke a father and this "debate" is the wrong place for such men to be venting their rage about no longer having absolute control over siring offspring, which is just a fact of civilised life. The days of the caveman are over, after all.

Merely having sex does not entitle men to control the destiny of women who experience the real consequences over their lifetimes, if unplanned pregnancy results. In this there is no gender equality; there is absolute difference and always has been. Get used to it. Some many posts later and this critical point remains unanswered. No surprises here.......

Timkins, don't put up your psychic shingle just yet. Typical innit? that if a woman has a strong opinion on something and feels she has the right to have control of that particular situation, then it's seen as a power thing, with all the tired old male equated cliches being trotted out. As stated before, contraception is a marvellous tool but unfortunately, bar vasectomy, is not 100% all of the time. Not to mention that there are some ill informed females and males that haven't quite got the handle on contraception even in this informed day and age. We can all fine tune the legal and moral arguments ad nauseum, but it won't change the fact that there will be some women who will want an abortion, no matter what country, financial or emotional situation she is in. No legislation or burnings at the stake are going to stop that. It's an individual's issue, not a collective one. 32 week old aborted fetus talk just sensationalises the issue (that would be extremely rare and for very sound medical reasons I would assume). This is chicken and egg stuff - (or sperm and egg). Hmmm, the euthanasia debate's looking interesting on the other page.