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The Forum > Article Comments > Adoption - a bundle of joy wrapped up in sorrow > Comments

Adoption - a bundle of joy wrapped up in sorrow : Comments

By Trevor Jordan, published 1/3/2005

Trevor Jordan argues Tony Abbott has brought adoption, as an alternative to abortion, to the fore.

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I think that Timmy's posts here reveal his very limited intimate knowledge of women. His breathtaking ignorance of the negative aspects of all forms of contraception from the woman's perspective attests to either a lack of sexual experience or indifference to the experience of his partner/s.

As an enthusiastically heterosexual man who's been sexually active for more than three decades, I made it my business very early in the piece to explore the various options available. Fortunately for me I grew up at a time and place where my girlfriends' mothers had them on the Pill from their early teens, and left useful tomes like 'The Joy of Sex' around for us kids to read...

Over the intervening years I've learnt that, while there are indeed many contraceptive options available, none of them are completely satisfactory and nearly all of them place the responsibility for contraception upon the woman, who also bears the side effects.

Women I've made love with over the years have used everything from the Pill, IUDs, diaphragms, depo-provera etc to the ovulation and finger-crossing (i.e. rhythm) methods in order to avoid unwanted pregnancies. I've really only had 2 equivalent options: condoms or a vasectomy, neither of which is without its drawbacks either. Ever wonder why nobody's ever come up with a viable male "Pill"?

Two of those women had abortions of foetuses I'd 'co-produced', while another had experienced the equally traumatic experience of having had to adopt out her daughter from a teenaged relationship. Interestingly, she seems in later life to have suffered more from that experience than did either of my partners who had abortions - although these were quite traumatic events at the time.

More than a couple of those women are what Timmy would call "feminists". Others aren't, but they all suffer from the inadequacy of contraceptive options.

I guess what I'm saying is that it's evident, from the obvious misogyny in Timmy's posts, that they are not based on an intimate knowledge of - and empathy with - women that is derived from equal, mutually respectful relationships with them.

Poor Timmy
Posted by morganzola, Sunday, 6 March 2005 12:23:06 PM
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Morganzola, (or perhaps you’d like to be thought of as “AMAZING STUD” ).

In the past, you have been asked to prove your generalized accusations regards myself (such as referring to me as “misogynist”, “ignorant” etc), but you haven’t bothered so far. So prove them, or keep your accusations for yourself.

I have noticed in your posts you have rarely referenced or qualified anything (like nearly all feminists and pro-choice people). Perhaps you are too manly for this.

There are problems with all forms of contraception. Have I denied this? Yes or No? (Oh, but I don’t have to answer that says “AMAZING STUD” )

There are highly significant problems with feminist ideology, and I have presented much evidence accordingly (and much of this evidence was written by females). Resorting to feminist problem solving techniques has never solved any problem to my knowledge, and I have read much feminist literature, and also read “The Joy of Sex” many years ago.

But if you have any knowledge as to when feminism has ever solved anything (and not just hidden the problems away, or just stagnated development, or just created a “Dependency Diva” syndrome etc), then please let me know, because in the many years of research I have undertaken, I have not been able to find one single problem ever solved by a feminist.

If any problems are solved, then it is usually done by someone else, and then feminists will normally step in to claim the credit. Prove otherwise, but please reference it so that it will be fully examined (Oh, but I don’t have to do that says “AMAZING STUD” ).

A typical feminist approach to solving the problems of unwanted pregnancy or abortion, is simply to not have an inquiry. But logically, no inquiry will only hide the problems away, and solve “nothing”.

Please prove otherwise (Oh no, says “FEM-BOY”, who has even advertised the fact that that he’s had sex with a known feminist).

I wouldn’t advertise the fact that I’ve had sex with a known feminist. For further education on this, read http://www.askmen.com/dating/curtsmith_100/114_dating_advice.html
Posted by Timkins, Sunday, 6 March 2005 3:05:24 PM
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Timmy... just between you and me... I don't need to provide evidence of your misogyny: you do it yourself nearly every time you post here. You aren't one of those sad blokes who blames his inability to relate to women on naughty evil feminists, are you?

While it doesn't surprise me that you seek advice on 'dating & love', I'd suggest you go elsewhere than the AskMen.com site to which you directed me. For readers who, like me, are unfamiliar with this choice site, here is one of Timmy's sources in action (from the link he provided):

"Every single one of us has made mistakes with women. We've been conned, duped and dazed by physical attraction. We've made fools of ourselves by kissing the feet of females who treated us like dirt. We've wasted countless hours and spent small fortunes chasing after women who lied to us and used us, and turned out to be rotten.
But do we learn from our experiences? No. Every time we think it's going to be different. We think if we just try harder, or do one little thing differently, the result will change.

"Well, it's not going to change. If you keep pursuing the same kind of woman, you'll just get your heart broken over and over again.

"Keep a watchful eye out for the following list of women, and you'll be one step closer to curing yourself of habitual bitch-dating:

"1- Miss Feminist - Bla bla bla."

Other features on the same site include:

"Learn how to control your girl and maintain all the power in your relationship"

"Practical Ways To Control Women"

"Training Your Girlfriend"

Etc etc...

I begin to understand why you don't seem to know much about women...

I don't think you and I need to interact on this topic any more, Timmy. After visiting AskMen.com I've now passed my boredom threshhold.

Morgan
Posted by morganzola, Sunday, 6 March 2005 6:26:53 PM
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Morganzola, (a stereotyped male who claims 2 abortions and one adoption?)

You actually read all the articles in Askmen.com. Originally I found a link to the article “12 Women to Avoid” from another web-site, and I have read only one other article on the Askmen.com site. That site is very slow with many pop-ups, so for someone as easily bored as yourself, you must have spent considerable time reading the other articles.

However I know of few males who “intentionally” have become involved with a Miss Feminist, or a Miss Take etc, as mentioned in the original article.

It is evident that you are not male “morganzola”. It has been showing for some time now.

You avoid giving out facts and will rarely answer questions, and both are very feminist characteristics.

You brag about your stud-like sexual exploits, but I know of few mature men who do this. (and I have now talked to thousands of men).

You say that you have liked to have sex with feminists, but I have never heard any other male say this.

You have casually mentioned the book “The joy of sex”, but you are the first male I have ever known to do this.

You have never mentioned family or fatherhood, and these are very feminist characteristics.

You seem to accept abortion, but not adoption, and these are very feminist characteristics also.

You claim responsibility for 2 abortions and one adoption, but those statistics seem too unreal to be true, and you are the first male I have ever known to make such claims of unwanted pregnancies.

The list can go on and on, but it is evident that you are pretending to be a stereotypical male, who makes women pregnant so that they have to have abortions..

However your stereotyped characteristics are simply too non-male in reality.

To help redeem your pretence, you can answer this question (hopefully with some references so that it can be checked and verified) :- “How can problems relating to unwanted pregnancy and abortion be solved without an inquiry, or by not carrying out more research”
Posted by Timkins, Monday, 7 March 2005 1:44:39 PM
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I can just see it - Morgan and OcanGrrl on a care-free frolic on the beach. Morgan with his strap-on and Oceangrrl with her four children in tow, rebelliously forgetting to take her contraceptives once again …

Timkins, on lifeguard duties … “what’s so hard to understand about doing it between the flags!”
Posted by Seeker, Monday, 7 March 2005 11:24:11 PM
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I think Morgan (or Zola) has passed the test at http://spacefem.com/militantfeminist/index.shtml

Or perhaps morgan / zola is a male, but has become a type of victim as referred to in the article at http://us.altnews.com.au/drop/node/view/1272

But if morgan / zola has been responsible for 2 abortions and 1 adoption, then perhaps he / she should stop reading “The Joy Of Sex” for a while, and instead practice saying words such as …..”Children”…. or.…..”Family”…. or …..”Mother”…..or even…..”Father”.

But perhaps there are too many “choices” of words to practice in this list, and it would become all too confusing for him / her.
Posted by Timkins, Tuesday, 8 March 2005 9:31:02 AM
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