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The Forum > Article Comments > WA Liberals will recriminalise homosexuality > Comments

WA Liberals will recriminalise homosexuality : Comments

By Brian Greig, published 2/2/2005

Brian Greig argues that if the Liberals win the WA election there will be a human rights roll back for gays.

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One more thing.
If u guys can't keep morons like the deputy mayor of melbourne under verbal control, u can expect a "gloves are off" approach to any gay issue from CE's his comment 'lets make Melbourne the Gay capital' was beyond red rag to a bull.. I assure you.
Posted by BOAZ_David, Friday, 4 February 2005 11:33:04 PM
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Yes, Timkins.

Firstly, only a tiny minority of lesbian couples would require IVF. All that is needed for most to conceive is artificial insemination (AI), a much simpler and far cheaper proceedure than IVF. Referring to "lesbian IVF" is a convenient but incorrect shorthand that harbours an inherent bias.

Secondly, while I'm not convinced any donor need play any substantial role in a child's upbringing, I do agree children should have the right to know something of their familial and genetic history. I have no magic suggestions about how this is best achieved through public policy, but it's surely not beyond us.

I also believe children require close role models of both sexes, but this does not mean the donor must take on that role. Lesbian seperatists do exist but are a very small minority of women. Generally, lesbians live in the real world in all its diversity, not in hermeneutically-sealed same-sex societies. They are not 'man-haters'.

> IVF is moving towards genetically modified children, or "made to order" children. Is this moral?

Personally, I'm hesitant to artificially screw with the genetic codes of life -- which same sex parenting does not do. I certainly say 'no' to Frankenfoods, in which genes from foreign species are spliced together. Similarly, I hold grave reservations about the wisdom of creating "made to order" children. Here's one for the homophobes out there: If homosexuality is eventually proven to be caused by a combination of genes or by hormonal fluctuations in utero, would it be moral to tamper with those processes in order to artificially engineer an entirely heterosexual world?
Posted by Homo au Go-Go, Saturday, 5 February 2005 12:11:59 AM
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Boaz,

We're the experts on this subject because we've lived it. So please don't lecture me on self-discipline.

What do Evangelical Christians bring to the debate? They bring the willful ignorance of those who are not allowed to think through issues on its merits. They must always stay within the bounds of a dogmatic, quasi-literal reading of texts written by an ancient people who understood very little about the world. I'm not saying the Bible is worthless, but it's plain ludicrous to hold up every word as 'eternal truth' as Evangelicals do.

It's you who seek to set yourself up as morality police and convert everyone to your chosen lifestyle and limited belief system.
Posted by Homo au Go-Go, Saturday, 5 February 2005 12:38:06 AM
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Homo, you said "Evangelical Christians have been the most vehement opponents of gays achieving equal rights before the law."

Not true. We don't have a problem with gays having the same legal rights as everyone else, but we do have a problem with gay relationships/partnerships being given the recognition as marriage or de facto marriage relationships.

What is the homosexual lifestyle? Ummm...having sex (if you can call urinating on your "partner's" body or into his mouth, or licking his anus and inserting bits of your body into it, or "fisting" or "felchures" etc, sex) with (many) other different men.

No I haven't read too many pamphlets - I've read Marshall Kirk's and Hunter Madsen's book, "After the Ball: How America Will Conquer Its Fear and Hatred of Gays in the 90's" which lays out the gays' aggressive and radical social agenda, and how they have used propaganda to paint a positive picture of homosexuality and deliberately co-opted language and the media to "jam" and villainise all those like myself who object to their program. Here's an interesting quote from them (p. 46): "Based on their personal experience, most straights probably would put the gay population at 1% or 2% of the general population. Yet…when straights are asked by pollsters for a formal estimate, the figure played back most often is the ‘10% gay’ statistic which our propagandists have been drilling into their heads for years."

Human rights? But who decides what are human rights and what are human wishes? There is actually no basis in history or in philosophy for human rights. In fact they really only make sense in a Christian worldview where God is the giver of human rights.

What gays want from the education system is for it to confuse and manipulate children so they are more vulnerable and easier to recruit to your lifestyle so there will always be plenty of "chicken" for the "chicken-hawks".

And yes it is sad that "gay kids who come from conservative Christian homes and schools who suffer the most." One of my sister-in-law's relatives was one such boy. He died of AIDS at the age of 33. Only his Christian family were at his side when his empty shell of a body gave up. Before he died, he acknowledged his rebellion and sin and recommitted his life to God. Another friend of mine who turned gay was not so lucky. I lost contact but discovered last year that he had died a few years ago of AIDS totally alone in a hospital in Canberra at age 28.

Homo, you can choose to live whatever way you want - but you can't choose the consequences...as many gays have subsequently found out - all too late.

AK
Posted by Aslan, Saturday, 5 February 2005 12:50:09 AM
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Ho Homo Au Go-Go,
I’m still sceptical about things such as gay marriage. In normal heterosexual marriage tody, it appears that couples mainly get married to have children, as marriage formalises the bond, and creates the more stable environment for raising children. That’s fine, although marriage is now very high risk even for hetrosexual couples.

But why do homosexual couples seek marriage, when there is no possibility for children other than adoption or IVF or AI, (and personally I don’t like IVF industry as I feel it is being driven mainly for profits). I think the gay community has to take a serious look at the IVF industry. The answers you have given would not solve too many problems regards IVF or AI if you study those problems closely.

Another problem would come with divorce of homosexual couples. From what I understand, divorce rates for gay marriage are generally higher than hetrosexual marriage. The present family law system is very biased against males in hetrosexual relationships at present (just ask any male who has been through it), and it is proving very difficult to get a fairer system. So what happens for gays. The gay comunity may have to develop it's own family law systems of sorting out divorce.

Overall I think that various gay lobby groups do have to take into consideration likely social affects or possible problems of such things as gay marriage, and begin to think of possible solutions to those problems. It cannot just leave those problems to the rest of society to sort out.

This is what happened to feminist organisations who wanted much more divorce. They got that widescale, but the social consequences have been devastating, both socially and economically.

Basically I think the gay community has to do some extra work on identifying possible problems, and have possible infrastructure ready to go with such things as gay marriage. The feminist movement didn't and it left behind a hell of a shambles. I think society cannot afford similar mistakes again.
Posted by Timkins, Saturday, 5 February 2005 12:55:06 AM
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I look forward to responding to your comments Timkins and Aslan. Alas, even the wicked must sleep, then this little sinner must work in the morn before dinner with a lovely lesbian couple in the evening. No doubt we'll sit around plotting the demise of Western civilisation after a suitably gluttonous dessert instead of watching The Bill and Parky on the Gay BC, which is usually the Saturday night highlight of my homosexual 'lifestyle'.
Posted by Homo au Go-Go, Saturday, 5 February 2005 2:17:21 AM
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