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The Forum > Article Comments > Muzzling the haters doesn't make hate vanish > Comments

Muzzling the haters doesn't make hate vanish : Comments

By Amir Butler, published 31/1/2005

Amir Butler argues that our democracy should not come under threat from a few offensive words.

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If you're going to go around publicly inciting hatred against a group of people in society by deliberately misrepresenting the beliefs of the majority of that group, and at the same time act like a con artist by stating misleading self-aggrandizing things about yourself, the group and the public in general is going to have little respect for you and is going to object.

In this particular case it seems as if the potentially fatal consequences to innocent people (hate crimes) outweighed the generic free speech argument. We don't and have never had complete free speech, we choose the line to draw (censorship) in all public arenas for the overall good.
Posted by ailix, Friday, 4 February 2005 9:23:37 PM
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Grace... I don't know Harry Gibbs, but whats with the 'oh him' type quip in your response to Aslan? does he not fit your mould ?
Posted by BOAZ_David, Friday, 4 February 2005 10:10:24 PM
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GRACE....

"Aslan, the loud expression of your personal opinion, together with some nasty sledging, does not substitute for reasoned debate"

Nasty sledging ? I refer you to your unrestrained attack on me in the other topic :) 'she who is without sin..... chuck the first rock'

waddles off......
Posted by BOAZ_David, Friday, 4 February 2005 10:27:58 PM
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Ailix

"deliberately inciting hatred of another group"

was your post a reference to the CTF case referred to by Amir Butler ?

Please goto the court transcript and read for yourself.

http://www.religionlaw.co.uk/interausae.pdf

Or.. see my own post on the 'demonizing Islam' topic and see if u regard what I said as either 'truthful and factual' or.. 'inciting hatred' or.. the 2nd BECAUSE of the first. Or..'mistrepresenting' Islam ?

If u visit Jenny Stokes comment in 'Is this religious persecution' topic its also informative.
take care
Posted by BOAZ_David, Friday, 4 February 2005 10:45:53 PM
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Boaz, as you well know, you copped a slashing from me in another forum after you accused me of saying something weird about bestiality. When I pointed out that I had said nothing of the kind, you then apologised. Later you were also obliged to apologise for Pericles for misquoting him. At least you have the decency to know when an apology is due.

If you are referring to a further forum, where you intervened to provide me with another of your dreary lectures about feminism and the patriarchy, and then offered me another truckload of biblical references, then you got what you deserved, a measured response. If you were hurt by this, then you have thinner fur than I thought.

As for Aslan, I have done nothing more here than respond in kind. Not normally my way, but occasionally I get fed up with cheap abuse as a substitute for reasoned debate. I feel much the same about biblical references and carefully selected "further reading".

In any case, I think Aslan is some kind of special case. At times, his personal abuse verges on the pathological. You have seen him offer to go around to Pericles' home and pour boiling water over his head. Frankly, I think this goes beyond a joke, and I am disappointed to see you aligning yourself with this sort of behaviour.

And if you don't know who Harry Gibbs is, then google him Boaz.
Posted by grace pettigrew, Saturday, 5 February 2005 11:54:53 AM
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Grace..... chill out will ya :)
don't u SEE my liberal use of smileys ? My goodness..
I align myself with Aslan in the sense of his main thrust, I dont agree with the cup of boiling water bit but I realize he was trying to make a point ..forcefully to a rather silly statement. We all say things we regret on reflection. Specially on forums where we often write 'from the hip' and we are back and forth between the 'what they said' window, while trying to make some sense of our own reply.
Aslan may have let his 'male'ness take over a tad too much in his imagery but thats no more reason to crucify him than for each of us to do so each time some other contributor blows his nose or something.
My comment on yours to which u refer was mean't in good humor.. sorry if I didn't scratch where ur itch.
Grace.. we are all here trying to get our points and messages across and indeed to learn from others. I've learnt heaps since being here. From you I've learn't about how to produce a well referenced footnoted piece of information, and also that with your occasional use of animal attritubes, u can be funny too, when u try. From Pericles I've learn't a way with words that truly impresses me. From Ozaware I've learn't how to reduce the size of posts :) We are also trying to enjoy people.. I hope. We make mistakes.. sheesh. Just because I express solidarity with Aslan, puh-lease don't see that as further evidence of 'them' and 'me' We ain't out ta get ya. I was tongue in cheek in that comment you referred to.

Grace, I'd like to know a bit about your background. It may help to understand more of your views. Is that going too far ? I mean.. kinda work, interests, state, political position. (you say ur leftish) I'm quite transparent myself, I'll answer any question u may like to ask.
The reason I say this, is that your post (more like broadside) about my fundy mates and limited web sites, was really an indication that u are categorizing me with little regard for the bigger picture, or the reality.

We dont always have to agree (any of us), but we can still have a 'caring disagreement'. Now.. u should find some more of that sun and enjoy it bit b4 ur next post :)
Posted by BOAZ_David, Saturday, 5 February 2005 12:46:24 PM
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