I agree with Kalpa, especially his first post. I am one of those 40 something guys that is supposedly telling you 20 somethings what to do. If it seems so, it is not out of arrogance or malice. It is out of experience that I wish to share with my fellow travellers...

Amanda, I like what you say and sincerely hope you are right, and I am wrong.

To start with, I cannot help but think there are some serious gaps in expectations between the genders and perceptions of their roles over the last 20 years - exasperated by mixed signals, wrong assumptions, and lack of appropriate education on the subject. In my observation, many seem confused, and in my opinion, justifiably so. The waters have sufficiently muddied, and it is understandable (to me), to hear Kalpa say he will wait for “society to evolve” some more, before he takes that plunge.

In fact, I’ll go more radical here and claim that young men have no idea of what they’re getting themselves into. No one, especially young men, understand Family Law, and tend to assume it is somehow as wholesome as that somehow perfect girl. Not so, my idealistic friends. I would urge every young couple to do thorough research on the subject, and to fully understand what their rights and responsibilities are (all responsibility, no rights for men), and what the marriage contract really means. Depending on depth of this research, you are likely to find it is like no other legal contract. You are likely to be discouraged and wish for further social evolution/adjustment, before you feel you should choose to partake.

To some extent it has been shown that marriage is no longer a distinguishable state from being unmarried (the gays come into this about now). And in the case of divorce, for unimpeachable men, marriage in the UK (and elsewhere) is now more damaging than cohabitation. If you don’t believe me, or don’t understand, then please read the full UK submission to the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights at http://www.c-g.org.uk/camp/hr/iccpra23&7.htm.

Another bit of reading before you go to bed tonight, could be The Emperor's New Clothes : Divorce Process & Consequence at http://www.ukmm.org.uk/publics/tenc/report.htm#contents. It is a long yellow brick road that negotiates some serious cliff face.

I know, these two links are 4 or 5 years old. They couldn’t possibly be relevant now… in that case, you are probably safe – just ignore me and go for it my dear friends…

Chris_b. Can you tell me how, exactly, children of same sex couples are disadvantaged? I don't think I've ever heard a social conservative advocate the infliction of injustice upon innocent children of gay couples.

While you're gathering your facts & figures I'll try & get some together in relation to the number of children sent back to alcoholic, abusive, violent homes (whether gay or not) by the social progressives of D.O.C.S in New South Wales and the Department of Child Safety(??!!!) in Queensland.

Amanda Fairweather's column is great. Is she really 18 or younger? She must be smart!
In any case, I'm just sorry that so many divorced social commentators are scared of traditional family values.
Yes, marriage is good but some of us are too proud to admit it! Just read, "The Case for Marriage" by Linda Waite from Chicago University or "Parenthood by Proxy" by Dr.Laura! Shacking up is not the same as a public commitment to each other. You could win that argument in your sleep.

I'm sorry but this article had me laughing out loud. Is there an award of the most generalisations in one article? Some choice quotes;

'In contrast, the more liberally minded are more likely to have shorter relationships, and will not actively seek to marry until at least their late 20s, but there goal is still to marry'. What??

'I can’t wait to be a dad,” is not that far from most boys’ lips'. Oh really? Which boys would these be then? The one's at your church? Of course the rocketing population growth supports your argument.

'Although the boys by now, cannot see anything wrong with this, the girls are stuck in the situation of desperately crying out for a wedding ring, with little hope of procuring one'. Believe it or not, not everyone is as desperate as you.

'It might seem strange to admit it, but traditional marriage is what most young people seek. Females are more in tune to it, or at least more vocal about it, than males.' If this was true then marriage rates would have gone up over the last fifty years, not down. Maybe less people get married because, er, THEY DONT WANT TO BE.

The last paragraph is a corker;
So you mean anyone over 30 doesn't want these things?Do you really mean 'We want careers, yes, but more we want children'? And people wonder why there is a pay gap between men and women. Can you see yourself getting promoted at 30 with an attitude like that? Go ahead, set equal oppotunities back 50 years.

All the women who have done so much to improve the lot of women in society, give them a choice of doing more than being baby machines, must love hearing stuff like this.

As a man in my late twenties, I like to think my wife has a few more prospects than bearing me as many children as she possibly can. Oh and I've been married for six years and I consider myself pretty liberal. And that people who get married because they feel they have some religious duty to do so are ignorant.

I agree with Kalpa. Perhaps there is a movement towards conservatism in young people. But Amanda cannot claim to represent the entire generation of people in their twenties- or prescribe just one method of achieving happiness and a fulfilling relationship. People have different wants and needs, some would not be fulfilled without marrige and children, other are happy just to live with each other and some just want to be single. I would hope that our generation is able to recognise this.

As a woman, I do not want to be generalized as "desperately crying out for a wedding ring". If this is what you want, then say that, don't tell us what we want... let us figure that out for ourselves.

I think that Amanda raises some interesting issues, and ones that myself and my friends are currently struggling with. She mentions that

"We want careers, yes, but more we want children, and we want the dads to hang around for them. We want a university degree and a parent of the year award, not in that order, but we do want both. We want sex with someone that means something to us, and we want to mean something to them. In short, we seek what is best offered in marriage and in a nuclear family."

The thing that I am not sure Amanda realises is that it becomes hard to dedicate the necessary time and energy to all of these pursuits to do any of them as well as many people would like to. Growing up post-feminism, I was taught to believe that I could do everything. My mother raised me, and has a hugely successful career, and I have always believed that I would do the same. But I am now finding that I do not how this will be able to happen.

My career choice is not condusive to having children, but I do not want to give up on it, as it is a passion as well as a job. Equally, all the best adjusted children I know have been raised by parents and/or grandparents who are stay-at-home carers, and who can dedicate time and energy to the education and entertainment of their child. And so, if I am to be a mother, I want to be able to be a stay-at-home parent myself - something that could effectively end the career path I have been fighting for for quite some time. I can understand why many women have been delaying childbirth, and yet it is not something I want to do. The rights that women fought for for so long for have in some ways backfired, because rather than just having the CHOICE to do anything they want to, women are now expected to do EVERYTHING.

I have a number of friends who can think of nothing better than being a stay-at-home mother when they have children, but the same economic freedom that has ensured that our quality of life is incredibly high through out the majority of our country (mind you, at the time that we give the least foreign aid than at any time in our past) has also shackled these women to work, to ensure that they can afford to feed those same family members that the wish to be at home with.

I am incredibly grateful to those feminists who fought for me to have equal rights, because all people are born equal and should have the same rights as everyone else. There is no way I could be working within my chosen careers without their efforts. However, Amanda might be too young to realise that wanting everything does not mean it is possible or easy to achieve it all.

Now, onto a separate issue raised by this article. Marriage. I am a 25 year old who was married almost two years ago. Getting married to my husband is one of the most wonderful things I have ever done, because it suits me and it suits us and our life. Equally, I grew up not expecting to get married until I was much older than I am, and I do not believe that I would have even wanted to if it wasn't for the fact that my husband came along. For you see, I did not want marriage young at the risk of missing out on living, and learning all about who I am in different relationships and situations - and even better, learning to be ok with myself when I am alone.

Amanda, you judge marriage as being somehow superior to the other choices people make in life. I think it would be great if you thought about the arrogance that your opinion promotes. It says that my friends and I who want this are somehow better than those with other situations. And while marriage is wonderful for some, it is certainly not the best situation for everyone, and it is not even legal for some people. I think that everyone has the right to be happy, and within this, people should be protected from the judgement of the small-minded other, who laud their way of life as being better than the choices of another person.

I understand your goal with this article. You are young and optimistic and that is wonderful. However, age does bring experience. I am still only young at 25, but what I know now is so much more enlightened than what I knew at your age. Often those who have lived a little might try to tell you about their experiences in an effort to protect you from the hurts they have experienced. It is not meant to crush your spirit, but to help you. For instance, I wish your three 19-year-old friends well, but I also know that not one single one of my friends is in their first really important relationship now - engagements were broken off when people grew in different directions, as most people do when they discover real life instead of just school.

Amanda, I hope that your optimism continues - life just gets better once you start to get older. I am so excited about 2005, because so far in life, each year is a little harder, and a lot better. Equally, you might also realise that the burden of expectation that you SHOULD be achieving everything in life is a hard one to bear. And that just because you want something in life (such as marriage) doesn't mean that everyone does, or even should. All of those people who have been raised differently have as many rights to their opinions as you, and their right to choose a life that suits them is equally as valid.