The Forum > Article Comments > Decline in feminism? The backlash myth > Comments
Decline in feminism? The backlash myth : Comments
By Paul Norton, published 19/8/2005Paul Norton argues there is no evidence to support popular claims that Australians are becoming more conservative.
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Posted by Reason, Tuesday, 30 August 2005 6:55:54 PM
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ALCHEMIST.... posts like that last one of yours 'are' flaming, but don't worry, name calling is usually the sign of a weak argument.
FOR THE RECORD. 1/ I build my first house with a loan available ONLY to those who had spent time in a war zone. So, yes, my guts were on the line. Vietnam. 2/ Nowhere in my post did I suggest that our wonderful female half of the population were not involved, as a team, giving their all for the sake of the nation. I said it was we men who SPILLED OUR GUTS. vulgar but true. We did it to protect ourselves and the girls. We could not have done what we did withOUT their invaluable effort behind the lines. When I regularly met the Hercules' returning from Vietnam at Richmond, not once did I see a female without arms or legs, but by God I sure saw a lot of guys. Thank God also for the care and love shown by the nurses. The only thing you proved with your post is how desperate you appear to be to lock me into some convenient little stereotype from your own bigoted mind (and I really mean 'bigoted' not an insult, an observation) SPENDO.. in the RAAF we lined up 'tallest on the right, shortest on the left, and trust me, your size or build was not the issue, that you gave your best was. Comradeship makes up for a lot in turbulent times mate. Sometimes the most unlikely can do great things. REASON.. sorry 4 making u mad. The truth is, my comment about PMS and monthly cycle was in fact almost word for word of how a women professional described herself to me just yesterday ...... I was not making a 'male judgement' mate. But honesty must agree that a significant number of gals are effected by pms and cyle no ? I have a wife and a daughter and a sis in law like that. TIMKINS.. your comments about animal farm are spot on.. human nature... no original sin ? :) Posted by BOAZ_David, Tuesday, 30 August 2005 9:37:22 PM
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BOAZ - even if I was big, I'm no fighter. My point remains the same: I know plenty of women who would be much better fighters than me. Case closed.
Posted by spendocrat, Wednesday, 31 August 2005 12:13:39 PM
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BD, yes there are some women who use PMS etc as an excuse to avoid responsibility for their actions and choices.
Not an area I'm an expert in but there seems to be little medical support for the idea that the hormonal changes at that time of the month turn women into blithering idiots unable to make rational decisions. Probably as valid as you claiming a testosterone overload on a particular day caused you to go out and beat up somebody. Maybe a belief in the overwhelming power of PMS contributes to a willingness to let loose. Most of us have days when we manage ourselves better than other days, unless we have serious mental illness we are still responsible for our actions. R0bert Posted by R0bert, Wednesday, 31 August 2005 12:36:50 PM
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Reason,
I believe I have already answered your questions in previous posts, and I have given considerable detail in those answers, and I see no reason to have to re-answer such questions over and over again, like some type of interrogation. But instead of interrogating people, you can simply get a copy of “Animal Farm”(or read a online version:- http://www.online-literature.com/orwell/animalfarm/1/) Cross out the word “pig”, and insert any of the major groups throughout history that have identified themselves as being an elitist “ism”. The events that unfold are normally the same each time, and it doesn’t matter about gender. Maybe the author of this article could also re-read Animal Farm, before any further glorification of the “ism” now being called “progressive” feminism. And maybe the author or some other academic could also sort through available data and come up with a outline of the state of motherhood, fatherhood and childhood in Australia. Not a professional feminist's version, but the real and actual version. Posted by Timkins, Wednesday, 31 August 2005 1:29:17 PM
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Timkins, I doubt you will find much argument around here that RADICAL feminism is the domain of academic rambling not connected to reality, but talking about Animal Farm and "isms", surely you can look back at, really, quite recent history, and see that it was "male-ism"? Women were not allowed to vote until just over 100 years ago, they were considered legally children, mentally incompetent, and requiring a man to 'own' them. Which hopefully, we all now agree is absurd.
As to the state of motherhood, fatherhood, and childhood in Australia, I would say things are getting better all the time. Children are not told (well, as much) what they can be 'when they grow up' limited by gender- it would be quite scandalous for your average little girl to be told "no honey, you can't be a doctor! you're a girl, you're going to stay home and be a mummy!", and it would be equally wrong for a little boy to be told "no darling, you're a boy- you should be a doctor, not a nurse". Motherhood & fatherhood- most people who have children these days WANT them and plan for them. Why would they not love their children as much, or possibly even more, than when a lack of contraception often meant too many kids to keep? And arn't fathers now ALLOWED and ENCOURAGED to actively and openly spend time with their children? They are not assumed to be unfeeling bread-winners. Isn't that a good aspect of increasing gender equality? So we should all look on the bright side of life. Some things suck. Somethings are unfair. But at least we know now that discriminating against someone based purely on their sex is, at the very least, intellectually WRONG. Even if we have not let managed to be 'sex-blind' in all areas of life/law/society/government/education/etc etc. Posted by Laurie, Wednesday, 31 August 2005 1:46:00 PM
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no, a man tax would not be right, neither is the 80/20 system in family court, as a general rule - that one depends on a number of circumstances.
So, how about you answer some simple questions:
- Do you think men and women should be equal?
- Are women as capable as men at anything?
- Are women suitable for leadership
Just to start the ball rolling...