If you tell people that you are going to give them free stuff it's easy to convince them to vote for you, and they won't notice that you are taking even more stuff away from them with the other hand. Because you want something for your efforts, and if you don't create wealth it's a zero sum situation.

ie. ReductionInYourStuff = ThePromisedStuff + Politician'sCut

Do you think politican's that promise more wealth, will actually create more wealth, without some reputation to back it up?

Shuffling the stuff, will actually reduce overall wealth, for a couple of reasons.

Another argument for some to get more stuff, is to move it from one part of society to another, but often the result is not as expected, as sub-societies are a dynamic moving target, and you might be undermining the source of stuff.

How can we produce more, waste less, and increase the work hours- all while treating society well. We can waste less by reducing food waste for example by using powdered milk rather than fresh milk (in the UK 50% of food is wasted). Increase work hours by reducing barriers to employment, and allowing those that want to work to work. These are "the low hanging fruit" that increase "the size of the pie". Maybe there can be more fruit and pie for everyone.

There are evil people that create scarcity for desperate people

http://img.offers-cdn.net/assets/uploads/offers/au/27881879/australian-washed-white-potatoes-2-kg-pack-normal.jpeg

Ad says potato's staples down from $7.50 for 2 kgs. I've seen them as high as $6 per kg. Hence I don't buy fruit and vegetables from Woolworths or Coles anymore. Sometimes I don't buy potato's at all.

What's happening- are Australian produce being shipped overseas, are there issues with labour supplies on farms, would it be better not to rely on backpackers but rather local workers for harvest looking at the barriers, are the potato's rotting in transport to market, what else could be happening??

Could we convert potato's to powder on the farms and ship as a bulk dried durable product so people could always have potato's in the pantry.

The same goes for other fruits and vegetables. With a bit of leadership we could have cheaper food, the producers could make more money, and the nation could be healthier.

All that is required is a bit of thought.

Dear Canem Malum,

«Aristotle argues that doing what you want isn't freedom»

The phrase "doing what you want" could mean practically anything until you clarify what you mean by "you".

Do you mean what your physical body wants?
Do you mean what your energetic body wants?
Do you mean what your mind wants?
Do you mean what your intellect wants?
Do you mean what deeper unconscious aspects of your psyche want?
Or do you mean what YOU really want?

Which of the above is to be truly free?
Possibly by limiting the freedom of the others?
According to you? according to Aristotle?

---

Dear Indyvidual,

Re: your question to Ttbn.

«How do think opposing idea people can find common ground unless they adhere to rules acceptable for all who strive for better harmony?»

Either there is a common ground or there isn't,
trying to fake it would not help and will not bring you happiness: not everyone is striving for harmony - and why indeed should they?

«How do you suggest should the reculcitrants be dealt with?»

They neither want to belong to your society, nor have to.

We still relate with others who do not belong to our society, just differently, same as we commonly relate to animals other than with people.

«Should those who don't believe in so-called work be left to their ideas & if they intrude or impose on others for help be told to just go away & form their own society?
I don't think that can be done but I sure would like to hear some ideas!»

Think "animals".

What ought you do with harmless animals that live around us?
What may you legitimately choose to do with harmful animals?
Would you ever demand that animals abide by the laws of your society?
Do you even instruct them to form their own society(s)?
Then why should that be different if they happen to be Homo Sapiens?

Share the earth!
(and don't be such a hog to fill it up yourself with as many of your kind, not leaving space for others as well)

I admire your feeble attempts to explain away the very basic instincts of man to dominate

There are two basic personality types; sadistic and masochistic. The former is ambitious the latter lazy, but both are driven from the strong human instincts of either sadistic domination or submission: Inbuilt is an innate need to be dominated in conformity to a hierarchy applicable to all fellow travellers.
Modern man is engaged in a war of the hierarchy: Universal freedom is a myth
Posted by diver dan

Thanks Diver Dan-

There's much truth in what you say.
I'm sure I'm very feeble, as we all are, but I'm not sure whether I'm sadistic or masochistic.
Thomas Hobbes talked about "Bellum omnium contra omnes"- the condition of man is a condition of war of everyone against everyone.
Julius Evola wrote "Revolt against the modern world" and " Ride The Tiger" both about the fallacies of modern man.

I like to think that some civilizations are better than others at finding and fixing the fallacies.

CM

You really need to think for yourself.

Hobbesian/Lockean social contract, is as dead as a dodo.
All power of underlings such as you and I, has been surrendered to fabulously wealthy elitists.

We live in a modern world of horizontal hierarchy; a world where the devil himself rules from its highest elevation adjacent the Dead Sea! God is dead! Libertarianism is a pup, stop fooling yourself!

The rulers of the modern world are divorced from any form of Democracy. Money is power; all power: A power dominating all Western cultures.

The winners, it’s not hard to predict, are religious Authoritarian structures with a traditional hierarchy where sits at the top, a totally transcendent God, underneath which are layers of fanatical believers in vertical hierarchy, taking orders (with rewards), from the Devils own missal, the Koran.

The creame de menthe of Western intelligentsia has succumbed to the lure of power, and rolled over to orders from the elite.
IslamicJihadists have become their shock troops. God, morality and sanity are all buried.

So…what will be the outcome for the West, in the midst of the civil war. Hopefully Trump will prevail, but not without an Authoritarian Putsch I predict.

Thanks Diver Dan there's some interesting content in your post. Kudos.

I agree "Hobbesian/ Lockean social contract, is as dead as a dodo". But we need to have some lever to bring the people to the truth. Politics is downstream of culture.

I hope this won't become a war against the wealthy, but certain groups of wealthy are responsible.

There are a few different types of authoritarianism and traditionalism. Some traditionalist's are not expansionist, they just want their historical lands and works and a ethno-cultural future. But as Socrates says those that don't seek power, need to seek power, otherwise the wrong people get power.

"Hopefully Trump will prevail"- It's difficult to enslave an armed population. We need to re-arm those that have lost their future.