http://youtu.be/iU4VHgTlaKc

Freedom is an unreliable bitch, not suitable to the security of the human spirit which must be contained for peace of mind.
Freedom is not a promise in the next life either.

Free as a bird is a misnomer. Birds are not free!

The concept of Libertarianism is a ruse for capture.

Thanks Diver Dan.

Aristotle argues that doing what you want isn't freedom, because you are a slave to your hormones and emotions. The paradox is that in order to be free you need to have some control.

Schoepenhauer also talked about human nature blinding itself, to the freedom, to discover abstract truth. He advocated living in a cave with limited distractions from their perceptions and society so that they could see the truth of the universe

Libertarianism as a brand hasn't done too well in Australia. It has had less affect than other minor parties, and nothing at all federally. Their 'leader' is skulking in state politics, gabbling a lot of BS about everybody being allowed to do anything they want. Can't stand the man.

Despite what some amateur commentators claim, there is the Left and the Right in Australian politics: the Left represented by
Green Labor - and increasingly, the Coalition - and the Right by One Nation and the UAP. As long as we have compulsory voting and compulsory preferential voting, Australia will remain a political joke.

ttbn,
How do think opposing idea people can find common ground unless they adhere to rules acceptable for all who strive for better harmony ? How do you suggest should the reculcitrants be dealt with ? Should those who don't believe in so-called work be left to their ideas & if they intrude or impose on others for help be told to just go away & form their own society ?
I don't think that can be done but I sure would like to hear some ideas !

ttbn-

The Liberal Party are essentially libertarian's of course. Which is a little confusing in terms of terminology.

I've said many times that the Left-Right terminology is also problematic and plays into Woke/ Marxist propaganda that Traditionalist's are extreme right- but sometimes perhaps this is the best way to explain things. Even Foxy has submitted articles to this effect.

To make things simple I sometimes use the Marxist/ Capitalist (Profligate Mill Freedom) spectrum and say that Traditionalism is on a different dimension that has a different conception of freedom (Virtue Based Aristotle Freedom). It isn't that simple but much more accurate.

I think political parties when they call themselves "Libertarian" are very much styled after Ayn Rand. Ayn Rand said that taxes should only be used for military defense of the nation and courts- everything else should be privatized. One of the leaders of the US Libertarian Party said that the Libertarian Movement wouldn't exist without Ayn Rand.

Rand talks a lot about cause and effect...

If your nation has bad principles, it will result in a sick nation, some say so called European colonialism was about attempting to instill good principles into other nations.

Rand also talks about cultures that survive on theft rather than production of durable goods.

Some such as Dickens criticised the work houses that produced the durable goods that pulled Britain out of poverty. But Dickens redeems himself when he referred to "the best of times and the worst of times" in comparing the work houses of London with the guillotine of Paris. The Industrial vs Democratic Revolutions

I admire your feeble attempts to explain away the very basic instincts of man to dominate

There are two basic personality types; sadistic and masochistic. The former is ambitious the latter lazy, but both are driven from the strong human instincts of either sadistic domination or submission: Inbuilt is an innate need to be dominated in conformity to a hierarchy applicable to all fellow travellers.
Modern man is engaged in a war of the hierarchy: Universal freedom is a myth