David, what is your basis for deciding that because someone was there prior to 1917 it gives them a superior claim over those who came after?

I didn't cite the Old Testament. I think it is an historical fact that there have been Jews in the country now called Israel for about 4,500 years. One doesn't need the Old Testament, or the New Testament to know that.

The Arabs have not been there for anywhere as long so if you want to use the "I was here first" argument, then Jews have a better claim than Arabs.

I favour dealing with things as they are, and as they are there is a thriving democracy called Israel made up of Jews who have lived there for thousands of years, Arabs who have lived there for maybe 800, and Jewish refugees who came in the 19th and 20th centuries.

There is no justification for conquering those people and taking their land away from them and forcing them to be refugees onto someone else's land, or killing them.

Don't quote books at me, do some thinking about the practical consequences of what you are proposing. Genocide is not something I support, but it appears to be something the books you read do.

Multiculturalism only works for so long in Western Countries until the money & therefore the good will also runs out.
That's why there's no multicultural society in any so-called Third world countries who don't have the funding nor the good will for such parasitic Academic idealist follies !

"this is the first time they’ve organised to support candidates along entirely ethnic and religious lines."

It is refreshing to see people, especially minorities, vote according to what is personally most important to them.

I personally find it silly to care about ethnic origins and groupings, nor do I consider Islam or Christianity (in the sense of the article) to be true religions, thus worth defending, but hey, for Fatima Payman this seems to be what matters most and I hope she also truly represents her voters in what matters most to them.

The article calls this "a level of sectarianism that no one alive can recall ever seeing previously in Australia" - I welcome it, I welcome when people express their true wishes rather than follow the herd and political parties which are irrelevant to ordinary people, I welcome when people and their interests are truly represented, whatever they be - I wish someone was representing mine!

The author praises Westernism, liberalism, capitalism and democracy.

Of these four, we have plenty of painful Western capitalism and only a pinch of democracy and liberalism.

Liberalism simply means "live and let live", but this is hardly the case around the world, including in Australia - instead we are beset by a thick web of legislation and bureaucracy ordering us how to live, what we must do and what we are not allowed to do, which the author lovingly refers to as the "Christian legal system". That others (including, but not limited to, Muslim countries) do even worse is not a valid excuse and offers no comfort.

Hi Taswegian,

"If Hamas killed 1,500 the IDF have recently killed 40,000 but that's apparently proportional."
- It was 1200, and Israel killed many of them itself.

Israeli army used Hannibal Directive during October 7 Hamas attack: Report
'The directive is a controversial policy of Israel’s military aimed at preventing the capture of its soldiers.'
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/7/7/israeli-army-used-hannibal-directive-during-october-7-hamas-attack-report
- Some including myself stated this, many others preferred a narratime.

"My guess is that surviving children might end up supporting Hamas."
- I also said on October 8 this would be a Hamas recruitment drive.
Just maybe not the orphaned toddler amputees.

Dear Graham,

«I didn't cite the Old Testament. I think it is an historical fact that there have been Jews in the country now called Israel for about 4,500 years. One doesn't need the Old Testament, or the New Testament to know that.»

There is archaeological evidence for the existence of a kingdom named "Yisrael" from the 10th century B.C. on, located in the northern part of present Israel, that is 3,000 years ago.

There is also archaeological evidence for the existence of a significantly smaller kingdom called "Yehudah" (Judea) to its south, around Jerusalem.

Both were vassal states of the Assyrian empire, as clearly inscribed on Assyrian scrolls.
At times they warred against each other.
The kingdom of Israel ended and all its population was exiled between 722-733 B.C., after it attempted to revolt against the Assyrian empire.
The Assyrians used to disperse and assimilate rebellious kingdoms throughout the empire, thus within a generation no Israeli identity remained.
Judea did not revolt and continued to pay its taxes to the empire and therefore remained.
Once Israel was no more, Judea had more breathing space and started to grow.

All claims of a close relation between Israel and Judea, including them having common ancestors and a brief period of joining into one kingdom (under kings David and Solomon), are Biblical. Science finds that very unlikely and provides good and fascinating explanations as to when, how and why the relevant Biblical claims were made, in the 7th century B.C, when no Israeli remained alive to confirm or deny these claims.

The Jews (excluding later converts) as they are now known, originate from the kingdom of Judea, not Israel.

As for the Arabs who live in and around Israel, many of them are also descendants of Judea, regardless of their later conversion into Islam.

This is not to deny Israel of legitimate claims to its land - which it has, only that they stem from modern times rather than from ancient and unsubstantiated books.

Dear Yuyutsu

I agree with most of your points but there is a skerrick of evidence of an alliance between Judah and the” House of David” in the Tel Dan stele, which dates from the 9th century BCE.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tel_Dan_stele#:~:text=The%20Tel%20Dan%20Stele%20is,to%20the%20house%20of%20David.

This does not, of course, prove that Biblical accounts of the origins of the Jews are completely historically accurate, but the Hebrew, Christian and Islamic scriptures do incorporate quite a bit of actual history in their interpretation of their respective faiths (as you correctly point out in reference to the Assyrians).