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What is Israel’s end-game in Gaza? : Comments
By Alon Ben-Meir, published 13/11/2023The war against Hamas will only be another brutal violent episode that will prepare the ground for the next conflagration that will engulf the West Bank and potentially set the entire region on fire.
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Any end game that excludes Hamas from its murderous rule will benefit both Gazans and Israelis.
Posted by shadowminister, Monday, 13 November 2023 4:37:35 AM
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This is not yet the time for Israel to decide about the day after: this is the time to finish Hamas off.
Winning the military battle is Netanyahu's last role. Once the war is over he will be gone and forgotten, drenched in shame he cannot stay a day longer. Israel will then go to fresh elections and the Israeli people as a whole will decide what future they want next. The author is trembling in panic as his article is biased by his worst fear - the return of Donald Trump. Yes, Biden is a hostage in this war and I don't envy that poor innocent guy whose political future now looks dim - my heart also goes out to him, yet he is not the only hostage: there are still over 200 Israeli hostages in Gaza and further than them, the whole people of Israel and most of the people of Gaza are also hostages for as long as Hamas exists. Israel's war strategy should balance the welfare of ALL hostages, not just that one. «Israel should not prolong this tragic war by even one unnecessary day. Indeed, if this war lasts another month or two, it is almost certain that 20,000 to 30,000 Palestinians, mostly innocent civilians» The author pays too much attention to Hamas propaganda through its "health ministry". The number was 20,000 already a week ago - mostly Hamas militants. Now, a week later, it must be bigger still. These miserable Gazan people and many others were already dead long ago, when Hamas took power, even while their corpses continued to walk and talk for a few more years. They are now much better off in heaven than in the hell where they have been in before. Posted by Yuyutsu, Monday, 13 November 2023 6:03:19 AM
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Psycho Sam sends out the trumpeters for the grand finale of regime change.
Poor Israel, no hope now. Goodbye Bibi; the last hope of survival through independence most likely to come its way again for the foreseeable future. Posted by diver dan, Monday, 13 November 2023 7:41:21 AM
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It is always Israel that has to cease fire according to the usual suspects - all of them barely hiding their anti-Semitism. The same old tripe that Israel has the right to defend itself, but it must do so with one hand tied behind its back. And, all those people jabbering about "innocent" Gazans are extremely naive. Hamas, not Israel, is their problem. All Muslims want Jews destroyed. It's in the Koran.
The 'calamity' "must stop"? Israel will decide when it stops; and given the ongoing threat from Hamas, that will not be any time soon. The "entire population" of Gaza is not Israel's problem. "President Biden should demand ……". This armchair warrior is full of ideas as to what people who have never heard of him should do; but his exhortations have the same impact as the wailings of OLO posters - nil. The protests by Arabs in the West will also have nil effect, just proving, once again, the stupidity of multiculturalism and the importing Muslims in particular. The rest of the advice to Netanyahu is presumptuous from another tiresome intellectual who will never have to put his money where his mouth is; never have to take responsibility for anything. Posted by ttbn, Monday, 13 November 2023 9:05:55 AM
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"This humanitarian crisis of such incredible scale is overshadowing the unconscionable slaughter of 1,400 people in Israel."
The number was revised down to 1200, and over half were IDF who are fair game while Palestinians are under occupation. - Many of the others were killed by IDF themselves. So the true number is maybe a quarter of that claimed, and some of the Israeli dead were not Hamas but other Islamic groups and random Gazan opportunists. - Not all hostages are held by Hamas. I oppose the killing of innocents and for that I am labelled anti-Semite. So I say let the Pro-Israel crowd have their war and genocide. - And let them live with the consequences. I'll have no more sympathy to the eventual outcome and hostility towards Jews and Israelis who were happy to deny innocents their own lives or right to exist. Posted by Armchair Critic, Monday, 13 November 2023 10:06:10 AM
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*were not 'killed by' Hamas but other Islamic groups and random Gazan opportunists.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Monday, 13 November 2023 10:08:09 AM
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The Russians had a problem with dissidents who had taken over a theatre and had hostages.
The Russian solution was to pump sleeping gas into the building via the air ducts. When everybody was asleep, they simply moved in and rescued the hostages and as the gas wore of, the dissidents self-identified and were executed. It seems to me, Israel could do something similar to rescue the hostages and eliminate Hamas as much as possible, in the hospitals. It cannot continue to kill around 400 babies a day as a "justified self-defence" exercise. Alan B. Posted by Alan B., Monday, 13 November 2023 10:27:33 AM
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Dear Alan,
«The Russian solution was to pump sleeping gas into the building via the air ducts.» I wish it was that simple: do you think Israelis are dimwits who could not think of this? Hamas has gas masks, also the moment they start feeling sleepy they would immediately shoot the hostages. I can think of better tactics myself, but I wouldn't expose them online. An interesting question for you: Suppose you had a way to save your baby from torture and death, where the only cost you had to pay for it was to earn the reputation of notoriously killing other people's babies. Would you use this opportunity? --- Dear Critic, «The number was revised down to 1200, and over half were IDF who are fair game while Palestinians are under occupation.» A 19-year old female, a kids-TV celebrity, conscripted as a cook in a military base and dancing in a party on her after-hours leave... is responsible for all that land stealing and occupation... what a monster! «I oppose the killing of innocents» Unless they are Ukrainian or otherwise born in countries that are somehow aligned with America. «some of the Israeli dead were not 'killed by' Hamas but other Islamic groups and random Gazan opportunists» Yes, I can see how it justifies their murder. Not to worry, they are now being dealt with as well! Posted by Yuyutsu, Monday, 13 November 2023 11:52:34 AM
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Joe Biden is not in any sense innocent. He has always enthusiastically supported every war during his time in the Senate and now as President too.
He also enthusiastically supported the draconian criminal law policies that have created the hugely enormous US prison population and the associated very profitable prison-industrial-slavery complex. Posted by Daffy Duck, Monday, 13 November 2023 12:01:48 PM
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There’s something to feel pleased about Daffy Duck; a rare moment in time I actually agree with you!
Posted by diver dan, Monday, 13 November 2023 12:53:30 PM
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Human nature leads people to engage in strange behaviour.
They can follow their instincts, and behave in totally unproductive ways. They can even engage in 'wars', in order to support an 'ideal'. When doing so, they appear blind to any carnage they cause. But the truth is; all they are doing is being destructive. This is an 'engineered' change we can do without. And somehow, they think they must go on to the bitter end. This is likely to happen in Gaza. Innocents will die, and all because someone, somewhere, has tunnel vision, and is flexing his muscles. What can we do about it? We must make sure our own little part of the world remains peaceful and progressive. And try to make 'agitators' in other places see reason. That is all we can do. Other than go to war ourselves. Which would be overly disastrous. And this is why I decry recent 'demonstrations'. They bring that sense of 'war' to our otherwise peaceful streets. Posted by Ipso Fatso, Monday, 13 November 2023 2:41:59 PM
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Ipso Fatso
Ok, accepting the validity of your argument, how do we in Australia live with the ideologically brainnwashed from universities without conflicting with the negaticpve anti social consequepences from the skewed thinking processes which it has created? My answer to that question is to accept the reality of the danger they pose to our individual chances of survival, and fight for your own cause. Unless ideological madness is confronted, such as currently underway in Gaza, progress remains halted, and life of the confronted is in danger! Posted by diver dan, Monday, 13 November 2023 4:13:30 PM
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That all sounds very war-like and aggressive to me.
But how do we proceed in life? By having very sound basic principles. Then, as you look ahead, the way forward should be obvious? Arrive at these principles by considering the natural world without humans. Then see how we have overlaid an alternative to this natural state of affairs. See how we have changed the landscape to better facilitate our existence. And see that our 'improvements' need constant attention if they are to continue. I think too many people live in a kind of fantasy world. They 'believe' in secretive and intangible 'principles'. The truth is these are in the person's imagination only. We cannot avoid the reality around us forever by retreating in to a world of make-believe. Even as I read the posts here in online opinion, I get the sense there is some underlying anger and aggression. Some of this of course is just 'letting of steam', a healthy pastime. ^_^ But clearly, some rely on faulty principles, which is evident in their writing. But better express their ideas here than on the streets, methinks. Posted by Ipso Fatso, Monday, 13 November 2023 4:56:25 PM
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"But better express their ideas here than on the streets, methinks."
Reckon.... Posted by ateday, Monday, 13 November 2023 5:28:17 PM
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Hi Yuyutsu,
"A 19-year old female, a kids-TV celebrity, conscripted as a cook in a military base and dancing in a party on her after-hours leave... is responsible for all that land stealing and occupation... what a monster!" Yes it's horrible, but little different to the Russian or Ukrainian conscripts (many of the latter dragged off the street and were unable to pay approx US$7000 bribe) who were sent to fight and die. If you recall, In the Ukraine / Russia war I may support Russia (by default because I oppose sanctions and overthrows and their endless wars) but I always supported a negotiated settlement. If America did not overthrow the elected Ukrainian government, there would've been no war. If Ukraine had've honoured the Minsk agreements, there would've been no war. If America had've agreed to not expand NATO in December 2021 (Something Putin voiced opposition to in 2008 at the NATO summit in Bucharest) - There would've been no war. If Ukraine had've negotiated with Russia in March and April 2022 the war would've been over then. There would not be over 500,000 dead Ukrainians and several times more wounded. There are now some 70,000+ Ukrainian amputees. [Cont.] Posted by Armchair Critic, Monday, 13 November 2023 5:35:32 PM
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[Cont.]
Neoconservative warmongers are aligned with Israel and Zionism. The Neoconservative War on Terror cannot be understood without Israel http://www.cage.ngo/the-neoconservative-war-on-terror-cannot-be-understood-without-israel "It is important to understand that the neoconservatives are staunchly pro-Israeli and have worked ardently to protect and project Zionist interests." http://twitter.com/DrLoupis/status/1723757577819816432 http://twitter.com/DrLoupis/status/1723755064806813895 How Progressive Democrats Were Railroaded in the Primaries by AIPAC and Allied Groups http://theintercept.com/2023/02/26/deconstructed-podcast-progressive-democrats-aipac/ "A people-powered insurgency threatened to reshape the Democratic Party. Then came the American Israel Public Affairs Committee and its allied super PAC, Democratic Majority for Israel." The Squad Is Getting Primaried for Standing Against the War http://theintercept.com/2023/11/03/deconstructed-israel-aipac-squad-primary/ "This week, House Republicans fell short in an effort to censure Representative Rashida Tlaib, but an effort to oust her in a Democratic primary is full steam ahead." US Congress is owned by the Israel lobby, anyone who doesn't support Israel gets primaried. The mainstream media is majority owned by Jews. Jews control the Central banks, and Larry Fink The head of Blackrock, that controls 8.5 trillion in investments is Jewish, and has been profiting off the war in Ukraine. Posted by Armchair Critic, Monday, 13 November 2023 5:37:04 PM
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Dear Critic,
There may be others in this forum who could be interested in discussing with you all about neo-conservatives and Jews and banks and American democrats and media ownership, etc. I have no time for that and I can squarely admit that I am not up to date. I am only up to date with the war in Israel and Gaza, because my family lives there. When the news turns to other topics, I turn off the radio. Since this war started I am no longer even up to date about Ukraine, but as you state that "There are now some 70,000+ Ukrainian amputees.", I can only ask, who amputated them? Conscription is the worst crime on earth and having been its victim myself, I absolutely reject it in any context, be that in Israel, in Gaza, in Ukraine, in Russia or in Australia. In my view, killing helpless innocent conscripts is as bad as killing innocent helpless civilians. Don't mistake it - I still strongly support Israel and it's just war against Hamas, but I will never support its practice of conscription. Whether these "neoconservatives", whoever they may be, truly support Israel (rather than their own agenda which only seems to coincide with Israeli interests) is yet to be discussed, but are you claiming that Liel Weinstein was a neoconservative, or even knew anything about politics at her tender age of 19? A girl just wanted to dance - where have all the flowers gone? Posted by Yuyutsu, Monday, 13 November 2023 6:28:49 PM
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I can only guess but from what I have read over the years it looks to me that Israel is now doing what Palestine as been working on doing with Israel !
Posted by Indyvidual, Tuesday, 14 November 2023 6:25:10 AM
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Dear Indyvidual,
«it looks to me that Israel is now doing what Palestine as been working on doing with Israel !» "Palestine" was working on murder, not on surgery. I do wish they would conduct a similar surgery on Israel to remove its own cancerous extremist Messianic settlers without harming Israel's healthy cells, but alas I can see there neither such intent nor skill. Posted by Yuyutsu, Tuesday, 14 November 2023 7:32:07 AM
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End game is stealing more land under the pretext of defence
Posted by Special Delivery, Monday, 20 November 2023 8:59:43 AM
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