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The Forum > Article Comments > Out with Centrelink. In with universal basic income > Comments

Out with Centrelink. In with universal basic income : Comments

By Everald Compton, published 7/6/2023

Far too many nations, especially Australia, have far too often had governments whose ideology has led them to want to punish welfare recipients.

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A universal basic income is too ridiculous to comment on.
Posted by ttbn, Wednesday, 7 June 2023 8:08:41 AM
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All well and good. But how do we pay for it, Everald?

We confront a future where factories roll day and night with hardly a single human hand involved, where this idea will have to be the order of the day, and folk paid to consume.

There will need to be a tax on production and offset by hugely lower energy costs. Or maybe you believe we could emulate Zimbabwe and just print money. And we know how that ended, don't we?
Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Wednesday, 7 June 2023 10:37:20 AM
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If there was a UBI, prices would rise to absorb the extra money available in the market. Pressure would then be applied to increase the UBI and if that happened then there would be further price rises, ad infinitum.
Posted by JP, Wednesday, 7 June 2023 10:40:38 AM
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If every human is born equal, they're entitled to an equal basic payment from their fellow Taxpayers coffers to which they themselves contribute !
Those who spend time overseas need to make up for the taxes they missed paying to Australia during their time away. I'm certain that they wouldn't be agreeable to have their missed payments deducted from their benefits !
Posted by Indyvidual, Wednesday, 7 June 2023 10:46:08 AM
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It will never work, Everard. The current program of 715K immigration over 2023-25, and ridiculing the homeless, is simply too much fun.
Posted by Steve S, Wednesday, 7 June 2023 11:28:21 AM
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WTF?
According to findings presented in New Scientist in 2020:

"When surveyed, people who received universal basic income instead of regular unemployment benefits reported better financial well-being, mental health and cognitive functioning, as well as higher levels of confidence in the future."

Universal Basic Income will be part of any progressive first world country in the future.

As the use of A1 and robotics increases at the expense of workers UBI will become even more important.

It has long been established that the UBI can be funded through the taxing of the number and type of robotics and A1 that is in operation.
Posted by WTF? - Not Again, Wednesday, 7 June 2023 11:29:20 AM
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A1 should read AI of course.
Posted by WTF? - Not Again, Wednesday, 7 June 2023 11:34:56 AM
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The World Economic Forum and it's Great Reset proposes a universal basic income as part of its global plan.
Posted by Francesca, Wednesday, 7 June 2023 2:34:09 PM
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A variant of UBI is called "negative income tax (NIT)", and yes, a few slight modifications can make it workable in Australia:

1) While UBI is automatically available to everyone, only those with no income or very-low income earners receive NIT. The others receive it on paper only.

2) NIT itself is not taxable, but everyone's income becomes technically taxable from the first dollar. In practice, for almost all existing taxpayers (excluding non-residents who already pay tax from the first dollar), NIT and the extra tax cancel each other, so the net effect is zero (thus the lower tax-rates may need to be adjusted according to the desired amount of NIT).

3) NIT will replace the whole welfare system, not just unemployment benefits, simplifying all payments and letting go of 10,000s non-productive government jobs.

4) People can elect to receive NIT either through their tax-return, or by claiming online at any time that they have no (or very little) income. Why they have no (or very little) income is no one's business, provided they tell the truth. In that case they will automatically receive weekly/fortnightly payments, then have their accounts balanced at tax time.

The benefits have already been described in the article, so I need not repeat.

One thing that was omitted in the article is the rationale, or what is it that makes UBI/NIT morally justified:

I suggest that UBI/NIT can be justified as a form of a compensation payment.
Modern society created such conditions where survival is no longer possible without money, effectively outlawing traditional and natural lifestyles which did not use money.

That is very sad and while most people are happy with that arrangement, there are those who do not, who are devastated by it, and it is only fair that modern societies compensate their victims by handing them the only remaining means still allowed for their survival - money!
Posted by Yuyutsu, Wednesday, 7 June 2023 3:59:13 PM
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Getting rid of negative gearing would sort the whole money circus !
Of course, a lot of hangers-on would need to swallow some humble tablets until they can muster the integrity for getting merit based employment !
Posted by Indyvidual, Wednesday, 7 June 2023 5:25:00 PM
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The elephant in the room when it comes to the direct payment of welfare is the very generous aged welfare in the form of pensions being paid to too many old folk with millions in assets, and money in their kids bank accounts. These non contributors, their numbers are growing rapidly as they live longer, and they are demanding more and more of the taxpayer dollar be spent on them in the form of direct payments and services. This situation is unsustainable in the long term, what is need is a 'Seniors National Service' where old folk can work 20 hours a week up to their 80th birthday, then have that reduced by 1 hours a week for every year above, until they reach 100, at which time they will then be given a nice letter from Charles, and a government funded birthday cake with 100 candles, a win win situation.
Posted by Paul1405, Thursday, 8 June 2023 5:48:49 AM
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Here I am agreeing with 14.05klm from Nimbin!

A means based welfare system would be an ideal innovation to reduce the burden of taxation on the wealthy that they continually whine about.

The savings could be invested into Government social housing, an added benefit towards the genuinely needy in society: IE welfare dollars directed towards a genuine need.

With the demise of the LNP, effectively the accumulation of the top end of well off, now might be an ideal moment in political history to achieve it.
Posted by diver dan, Thursday, 8 June 2023 6:25:47 AM
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DD, as my number one weed supplier, its makes good business sense to keep in the good books with your best customer!
Posted by Paul1405, Thursday, 8 June 2023 6:49:37 AM
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Any figures as to how many families were broken up by Centrelink ?
Posted by Indyvidual, Sunday, 11 June 2023 5:04:54 AM
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Where are our 'reliable source' posters hanging out these days ?
Posted by Indyvidual, Tuesday, 13 June 2023 5:54:03 AM
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Just heard on the Aborigine Broadcasting Commission Radio that some 60 Australian Millionaires did not pay ANY Tax this time round.
It looks as though even that massive bureaucratic bungle was insufficient to make these Govt (taxpayer funded) bureaudroids get motivated into a small Degree of integrity !
A good number of these Peter Principle parasites need to be ousted instantly !
Could the Public Service Union please offer an explanation how/why it tolerates if not condones incompetence/corruption of this scale ?
People through no fault of their own starve & sleep in cars in the Lucky Country whilst those who fail to perform their duties live in luxury sure puts a massive question mark over this Union !
Posted by Indyvidual, Tuesday, 13 June 2023 6:06:29 AM
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