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The Forum > Article Comments > Penny Wong’s world view: AUKUS all the way > Comments

Penny Wong’s world view: AUKUS all the way : Comments

By Binoy Kampmark, published 21/4/2023

The anti-China hawks, talons polished, got their fill. The US State Department would not be disturbed. The Pentagon could rest easy. The toadyish musings of the Canberra establishment would continue to circulate in reliable staleness.

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But,,,can the Earth King Pedo Pete, rely on his trusted agent of the South that she is not actually a Sergeant of the the Dai Li and personal protector of the Golden Emperor?

And..can Pedo Pete trust there will be no peasant uprising in the Southern Kingdom?
Posted by diver dan, Friday, 21 April 2023 8:19:29 AM
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"Anti China hawks". What a stupid thing to say. China - a murderous Communist country - is a threat to Australia, which the CCP regards as the the weakest link in the weakening West.

As for the rubbish about the US ", interfering and guiding (Australia's ) politics and its policies" - that proves that Kampark is off his rocker. He should be confined to a suitable medical institution where he could receive treatment for his Australiaphobic condition.
Posted by ttbn, Friday, 21 April 2023 8:37:04 AM
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What ttbn says. As for the nuclear proliferation treaty we can do nuclear and stay true to that treaty by developing MSR thorium. Because there is little if any real prospect of building a bomb from thorium or U233.

I believe Putin tried but killed several scientists in the effort. And difficult to remove nuclear fuel while liquid and around 700 C.

On the other hand, MSR technology can burn nuclear waste as it uses it as mostly unspent fuel and also weapons grade plutonium.

The brain-dead greens would sooner leave in the weapons. And some labor luminaries locked in the 19th century would power our subs with coal if they could.
Alan B.
Posted by Alan B., Friday, 21 April 2023 11:29:00 AM
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China doesn't need to start any wars, it's the US which provokes until the other side acts.
They did it with Japan in WWII and they did it with Russia in Ukraine.

Chinese is a industrial powerhouse and the US has become a outdated junkheap with all it's industry exported to foreign countries by greedy capitalists. China leads the world in critical technologies and has 4 times as many people.

China will surpass the west in every area, if they haven't already surpassed them in most areas.
This is inevitable and there's nothing the west can do about it except try to undermine and keep their rivals (and citizens) down to stay on top.
The US does not have allies, it has 'partners' vassal states that are there to be sacrificed (like it did with Nordstream and European energy) that it uses until they are no further use to them.
China
China’s ‘Particle Beam Cannon’ Is a Nuclear-Power Breakthrough
http://www.defenseone.com/ideas/2022/06/chinas-particle-beam-cannon-nuclear-power-breakthrough/368082/

"It promises to recycle spent nuclear fuel, making it cheaper and less dangerous—and moving Beijing toward energy independence."

China is moving forward Alan B, while the west (and your ideas) have stagnated, because to many people serve their own interests and the status quo under democracy and capitalism.

They make money off keeping nations poor, dividing them against each other, exporting war and exploitation of their nations assets, or putting them in debt to the IMF which forces them to sign over their nations assets.

The US wants to exploit and capitalise from suffering, where China wants to get stronger the old fashioned way, building, trading and improving peoples lives.

- Winning War makes banksters wealthier off death -
Citibank executive declares "we have to win this war" because there is such desire to "mobilize private capital" in Ukraine
http://twitter.com/mtracey/status/1647811834039136258

- It's all about the money, and the US salivates over getting Putin out of the way to get at Russia's wealth in commodities as well.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Friday, 21 April 2023 6:59:12 PM
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AC, You're talking about facts...this is no place for facts...you have to spin a palatable story 'bout how Jingos rule the world preserving the fictional facts the readers want like to hear.
Talk about how Thorium is the new savior and that the colour brown is going to be the new fashion colour, particularly when dealing with the US. Hides all the stains.
Talk about the hundreds of thousands of Australians that will sign up to fight to the death to preserve the values and advanced thinking of the US....weel the thinking bit might be several bridges too far considering Guantanamo.

And when I read things like this,
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/4/22/discovery-of-wwii-wreck-on-which-nearly-1000-australians-died
but let's move on and not dwell on the past
After all that's what history is....and what can one learn from history?
It wasn't the first and it won't be the last US cockup
Posted by Special Delivery, Saturday, 22 April 2023 4:44:48 PM
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Australia supports the liberal world order because Australia's national interests depend on a world order governed by liberal rules originating from Britain.

From Australia's point of view, we are immeasurably better off in a world that operates under a liberal regime. The world has been dominated by rules and codes determined by British liberal thought for centuries. Australia exists as the nation it is because the world operates to enhance and encourage free trade, not just in goods but in people and finance and thought. A world dominated by the CCP would be highly detrimental to Australia and would force us to become something very different to what we are today.

In a world where the dominant power was no longer democratic in its aspirations, those nations to our north whose adherence to democracy is equivocal would surely head down other paths, also threatening our way of life.

Australia has supported the liberal world order for its whole existence. Its why we helped against the Boer, were in WW1 and Korea and Vietnam. Why we support Ukraine. Not because we have a vital immediate interest in those wars but because we supported the liberal order that fought those wars. That is why the Taiwan Straits are important to us and why, flawed as it is (especially under the current kakistocracy), we support the US against its foes. In the long run it is in our self-interest.

That is why we are in AUKUS. Its why we prefer the US over its totalitarian rivals. Its why we seek friendship, support, mutual support from those who likewise support the liberal world order.

I get that those who have chosen the other side, those who dream of the victory of the totalitarian states over liberalism and care little about what that world would look like...that these folk are severely disappointed that a new Australian government continues to support the liberal world order. But a new Labor government, just like every government before it, cannot, if it has Australia's interest at heart, do other than oppose the rise of the totalitarian hegemons.
Posted by mhaze, Saturday, 22 April 2023 5:07:06 PM
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"China doesn't need to start any wars"

Taiwan will be relieved to hear that.

Although they might quickly come to realise that such statements make little to no sense to anyone who has even a passing understanding of history.
Posted by mhaze, Saturday, 22 April 2023 5:09:16 PM
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Mhaze,

It’s not becoming of you, behaving like a bankers mole.

Well here’s history…US began its losing streak with Korea, and hasn’t won a decisive victory since then (if actually any).…and in the end, sides with the old enemy…(suck-up to Iran eg), Treachery , and turns its Allies into the enemy…Israel at the moment , for one of many examples!

And a copy book picture of the Cuban Missile crisis in Taiwan, should be tolerated by China…
Or is that a case of one rule for the rich and another for the poor more accurately?

So where are your Christmas lights flashing in the dark, with your own interpretation of history
Posted by diver dan, Saturday, 22 April 2023 8:06:18 PM
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Well... I'm not sure what to say.

IF Taiwan's really really lucky, they might just become the next Ukraine.
Doesn't matter if tens of thousands of Taiwanese die or thousands of Aussies die too, as part of AUKUS defensive pact called to do our bit.

Just so long as the US can spend and make billions selling weapons, and Taiwan is destroyed and future governments become indebted by lend lease weapons and IMF loans and foreign bankers rushing in to feed off the scraps like vultures and other politicians and bankers all on the take for reconstruction, and maybe China will cop a punch in the face.
Maybe, maybe not... who cares as long as the money flows and the rest of the Taiwanese and Western citizens pay with their lives or pick up the tab with national debt right, then who cares?

It's all for 'national interests' and 'democracy' and liberal values'.

All wars are bankers wars you silly fool.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Saturday, 22 April 2023 11:30:22 PM
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Funnily enough, the Taiwanese actually want independence from the CCP. They vote for it every time. But I guess those here who constantly barrack for the totalitarians will just assert (no evidence required) that they are duped by the Great Satan.

"All wars are bankers wars". There's ahistoric rubbish and there's childish tantrums and then there's whatever that type of thinking is.

I notice none of these geniuses ever try to address the issue of how Australia would benefit or function in a world governed by the totalitarian thugs that they so admire.
Posted by mhaze, Sunday, 23 April 2023 12:06:14 AM
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"US began its losing streak with Korea, and hasn’t won a decisive victory since then"

Well I think Kuwait (1990) will be surprised to hear that. OTOH Saddam (2003) will be relieved by the news. Oh, and there was that little kerfuffle called The Cold War (you might have heard of it...it was in all the papers!!) which the US won rather handily.

You don't have to be total ignorant of history to write as Diver Dan writes....but it helps.

AC seems to have this go-to assert that nations should just surrender to the totalitarian thugs he so admires because if they don't, thousands or millions will die. You know, like Britain should have surrendered in 1940/1. And like Alexander should have surrendered to Napoleon in 1812. Or Athens surrender to Datis in 490BC. Oh, I wonder which side should have surrendered when Germany invaded Russia in 1941? Tough call given that both were totalitarian regimes and AC always sides with totalitarian thugs.

Of course, the issue is Australia's stance on all this, and, as stated, Australia's position ought to be what's best for Australia. If Taiwan elects to surrender to the CCP threats, then we'll accept that and make our further arrangements accordingly. But defence of the liberal world order will remain the priority, at least so long as there is a liberal world order. OTOH Taiwan might want to fight to avoid suffering a genocide at the hands of the CCP...oh wait, AC is totally okey-dokey with genocide so long as the totalitarian thugs he so admires are doing it.

Just one final observation about AUKUS. In his book "Reflections on a Ravaged Century" Robert Conquest, writing more than 20 years ago, talks of the creation of The Anglosphere - a grouping of those nations that adhere to the legacy of British liberalism ie Britain, US, Australia, NZ, Canada and (later) India. Brexit, AUKUS and The Quad, brings the Anglosphere much closer to reality.
Posted by mhaze, Sunday, 23 April 2023 8:23:47 AM
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All polly waffle,
Australia doesn't have a position because if it did it would have declared itself so although it has tried to on occasions only to be shut down with political manipulation and consequential election.
How to control an ignorant society, give them more sport to amuse themselves by.
The proposed anglo/celtic concept of governance by way of an Anglosphpere is no more than wishful thinking concocted on the back of ignorance.
Australia has always been, and continues to allow itself to be, no more that a human resource especially in times of war.
The 'Anglosphere' is an outdated concept designed to alienate those around in the near vicinity of Australia not to mention the first nation which has no interest or desire to contributing to an 'Anglosphere'
The way things are moving at present India will be the centre of the proposed Anglosphere, and it will have little or no interest in UK/US policies, much less Australia, NZ and Canada
In fact The UK of old is long past it's use by date with the US to follow in about 20 years and all because of disrespect of other cultures.
If you think those aggrieved cultures are just going to bend over and saying 'please do it again' I wish you a long life if only to see how your ilk fares.
Posted by Special Delivery, Sunday, 23 April 2023 10:20:52 AM
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“The proposed anglo/celtic concept of governance by way of an Anglosphpere is no more than wishful thinking concocted on the back of ignorance.”

Well as I mentioned, it was proposed or predicted by Robert Conquest, one of the most consequential historians of the 20th century. Yeah, so obviously born out of ignorance!!

Clearly ignorance is involved and I’m pretty sure I know whence it came.
Posted by mhaze, Sunday, 23 April 2023 6:41:01 PM
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The problem with America is not only it’s losing streak at wars of its own creation, but the Democrats crimes against its own citizens.

There is a desperate need for the return of Trump. At that point , God willing, the world can breath a sigh of relief!
Posted by diver dan, Monday, 24 April 2023 6:53:10 PM
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Anglosphpere... Lol
- Any brochure you pick up these days has a 'typical' male Australian as an African, and a 'typical' female Australian as a Chinese.
You couldn't put 'actual' white Australians on there, because it would be deemed 'racist' and 'insensitive' to all the 'foreign-born Australian' people, and not in line with a UN / multicultural ideology and narrative.
Don't you know the needs of refugees and immigrants come before the needs of white Australians?
- So when you say 'Anglosphere', I honestly don't know what the hell you're talking about.

All Wars Are Bankers Wars
http://youtu.be/BrKf9nYeXT0
Posted by Armchair Critic, Monday, 24 April 2023 10:11:28 PM
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"The problem with America is not only it’s losing streak at wars of its own creation"

"Well I think Kuwait (1990) will be surprised to hear that. OTOH Saddam (2003) will be relieved by the news. Oh, and there was that little kerfuffle called The Cold War (you might have heard of it...it was in all the papers!!) which the US won rather handily.

You don't have to be total ignorant of history to write as Diver Dan writes....but it helps."

AC,

"So when you say 'Anglosphere', I honestly don't know what the hell you're talking about"

Well its got nothing to do with the way people look. Struth!! !!

As I explained earlier, its about a grouping of nations that have inherited and adhere to the notions of British liberalism developed over the centuries and delivered to the world - rule of law, free trade in goods and ideas, freedom of thought and religion. the entire legacy of British thought from Burke to Smith and all inbetween. The things that make Australia what it is and without which Australia would be a very different and inferior place.

(Anticipating your a-historic response, to be sure these notions aren't adhered to fully or perfectly. But they do form an ideal and a guide to how a just and productive society works)

"All Wars Are Bankers Wars"

Well I watched your silly little video. A bunch of cherry-picked quotes that only make sense to people whose historic knowledge is severely lacking. The notion that Hitler was forced into war because British bankers wanted it is too laughable for words and could only be believed by those who have an extremely rudimentary knowledge of the causes of that and all other wars.

Let's see:

Sino-Soviet War .... caused by bankers?
Sino-Vietnam war .... caused by bankers?
Somehow the myriad wars before there were bankers were nonetheless caused by bankers!!

Youtube and the like can be extremely useful tools, but can also be used to totally mislead those who come to it with little knowledge and an over-abundance of credulity.
Posted by mhaze, Tuesday, 25 April 2023 10:18:34 AM
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By 'Anglosphere' did you mean this?
http://twitter.com/vrosen11/status/1650296029798096898
Posted by Armchair Critic, Tuesday, 25 April 2023 2:06:50 PM
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No....I fail to see how you could get that so wrong.

BTW was the Sino-Vietnam war a banker's war?
Posted by mhaze, Wednesday, 26 April 2023 8:38:45 AM
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