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The Forum > Article Comments > On the march to destroy Israel as we know it > Comments

On the march to destroy Israel as we know it : Comments

By Alon Ben-Meir, published 16/1/2023

It is nothing short of tragic that the newly-formed Netanyahu government is betraying every single principle of the country's founders' vision, to the detriment of the country.

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This article made me want to cry - but I have no more tears.

While Israel's founders are rolling in their graves, they do have a significant share in the responsibility for what Israel is becoming:

Historically, Israel's founders did not seek a Jewish state, but rather a free modern state in which modern Jews could live close to the land and in freedom from Jewish-diasporic attitudes, anti-Semitism and Rabbinical oppression.

Then came Hitler and the holocaust, following which the world took pity on the surviving Jews and supported them having a state of their own (not necessarily in Israel).

Israel's founders, who were then bitterly struggling against both the British and the Arabs and needed any bit of help, opportunistically said: "Yes please, we are this Jewish state, look no further, help us, help us".

Having told that lie, they could not go back and the seed for a truly Jewish state was sewn.

Later in 1967, while taking over the lands from which Israel was attacked on three sides and clearing it from enemy armies was a must, remaining in these lands for more than a few weeks, was not militarily required. it was not the Jews as such which decided to remain there, not any Bible-believers who considered being there as their Godly duty, but rather the socialist Israeli government of the time (and for completely inappropriate reasons).

The ideological Jews, who are now in government, only came later, not before 1975. Had the Israeli government withdrew from these cursed territories earlier, then many of these ideological Jews would not have migrated to Israel in the first place, thus wouldn't change its demography so drastically.

And finally, yes, there is plain demography at work. While the liberal descendants of Israel's original founders reasonably used contraceptives and had only 2-3 children, the ideological Jews observed the commandment to be-fruitful-and-multiply in full and overtook them.

And we see the results with our tearful eyes.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Monday, 16 January 2023 2:03:20 PM
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Well stated Yuyutsu. The dangerous power of religion.
Posted by ateday, Monday, 16 January 2023 3:35:01 PM
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Chaim Weizmann, a principal organizer of the Balfour Declaration, and Israel’s first President, warned in his memoirs of the “menace” of the rabbi who will “make a heavy bid for power by parading his religious convictions.” Weizmann continued, “It is useless to point out to such people that they transgress a fundamental principle which has been laid down by our sages: ‘Thou shalt not make of the Torah a crown to glory in, or a spade to dig with.’ ”
Posted by david f, Monday, 16 January 2023 5:06:35 PM
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Dear Ateday,

«Well stated Yuyutsu. The dangerous power of religion.»

Care to explain this strange statement? I have not mentioned religion, where does it come in?

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Dear David F.,

Well said!

It was not only Rabbis who made the Torah a spade to dig with:

When Ben Gurion appeared in front of the Peel Commission (which was to determine the fate of the land of Israel), Lord Peel asked him:

"when a man lived in a house for 100's of years and then someone else appears and claims 'this house is mine', doesn't he need to produce some document, some Kushan (Ottoman land deed) to prove his words? Where exactly is your Kushan?"

Ben Gurion lifted the Bible (which was there for swearing-in) and shouted "This is our Kushan", "herein is written that the land was promised to our forefathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob: do you believe the scribbles of some clerk in Istanbul more than this book which you respect as well?".

Israel's foreign minister, Abba Eban, later repeated this act in the United-Nations.

They failed to mention that the natives whose lands they claimed, were also the descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob!
(assuming that trio even existed, but that would digress)

They also failed to mention that the said "Kushan" also contained several conditional-clauses for land-ownership, conditions they did not fulfill (such as observing the Sabbath, respecting one's parents, abstaining from certain foods, wearing certain clothes, etc.).
Posted by Yuyutsu, Monday, 16 January 2023 6:50:40 PM
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Yuyutsu

Let’s get to basics.

Wasn’t the intention of a Jewish home State intended to be a refuge for a vulnerable Jewish scattered world diasporas.
As the view of the West after WW2 became sympathetic towards a place for the dispirit groups to gather in a home State resembling any other State world wide.

The argument against this event now pretty much settled, is a bit rich to claim the land belonged to others who filled the vacuum after the Jewish dispersement following the string of defeats through the ages.

Are you also onside to handing back the continent of Australia to Aboriginals.
If you are, I’d consider that particular stand as suicidal.

Your obsession against National States is really difficult to comprehend, outside of a wish for your own self destruction.

I really don’t think Jews generally believe in being in love with that idea.
Posted by diver dan, Monday, 16 January 2023 8:58:46 PM
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Dear Diver Dan,

Yes, I always like to go back to basics.

«Wasn’t the intention of a Jewish home State intended to be a refuge for a vulnerable Jewish scattered world diasporas.»

Yes, but the original goals of the Zionist movement that settled Israel during the end of the 19th century and the earlier part of the 20th, were different. That intention you mentioned came later, especially after the holocaust, and by different groups.

While Israel was already suffering from the clash between these two movements, there appeared a third movement whose intention was to settle the whole of Israel for neither of the above reasons but in order to bring the Messiah's coming forward.

«is a bit rich to claim the land belonged to others who filled the vacuum after the Jewish dispersement following the string of defeats through the ages.»

Except that the majority of these "others" was of Jewish descent, whose families never left the land.
(yes, at some stage they converted to Islam in order to avoid the Gizya tax on non-Muslims)

No land anyway belongs to any group, ethnic or otherwise - all lands belong to God.

"The land must not be sold permanently, because the land is mine and you reside in my land as foreigners and strangers." [Leviticus 25:23]

Also there:
"Follow my decrees and be careful to obey my laws, and you will live safely in the land" [Leviticus 25:18]

Had the returning Jews been following the commandments of the Torah, then indeed they could claim an advantage over the "others", but given one group converted to Islam while the other converted to secularism, none of them can claim an advantage over the other.

«Are you also onside to handing back the continent of Australia to Aboriginals.»

One cannot hand to others what is not theirs.

All lands and seas belong to God, and God alone.

«I really don’t think Jews generally believe in being in love with that idea.»

As the saying goes: Two Jews - Three Views!
Posted by Yuyutsu, Monday, 16 January 2023 10:22:31 PM
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