Following along with save “everything” from human intervention, human intervention will be required: That has become no doubt, an evangelical pursuit.

Is it time to cage humans in their daily persuiit of survival, as a punishment for crimes against animals; and who will decide on that moment in time ? The worthy of course. And who are the worthy to be given the status of judge and jury of our personal freedoms?

It seems to me that major corporations are the high court of our future.
I was surprised recently to be subjected to the third degree of mybwirthyness to be served by a human or a machine.

At the door of the local NAB stands a man whose job it is, is to question customers of their need for a bank of ATM’s or granted an invite to the plush inner sanctum, where bank tellers mouth platitudes such as have a nice day.

Sorry but it hasn’t started off too well.

Dan

Yeah, what a hilarious suprise. Mr "I know better than all those climate scientists" David Leyonhjelm also knows better than vets and biologists!

It's not anthropomorphism but observable, quantifiable distress. One can see the chicken pulling it's feathers out, see the physical effects on the bird, and see the filthy conditions and actually taste the difference in the eggs.

Anyway, in 10 to 15 years I doubt 95% of people will even BUY animal products. We're about to see the biggest change in food in 10,000 years! No beef or lamb or pork or chicken or poultry or fish or dairy. None! Why? Ferming is about to replace farming.

Think of it as electric food that bypasses photosynthesis. Electricity splits water and feeds hydrogen to bacteria - with a few fertilisers. Here's George Monbiot eating a pancake made from the stuff. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jan/08/lab-grown-food-destroy-farming-save-planet They claim it will scale up to grow protein cheaper than soybeans by 2025, and that it will cook all the proteins and fats and carbs we need, and even arrive in different flavours. They want to cook up an alternative kind of fish-finger with omega-3's, or something like a chicken nugget. It could replace livestock and wheat and corn farms. All that's required are much smaller gardens for fruit and veg and herbs and spices for flavour and texture woven into this factory stuff. It could be the biggest jump in human food since we invented farming 10,000 years ago! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_Foods

I read this elsewhere, and found David Leyonhjelm to be telling it the way it is - as he always does. I learnt a new word for the bleeding hearts; but 'idiots' is easier to remember.

The best laugh is the one about supermarkets, leading price-gougers, pretending it's all about being humane to chooks in order to be 'loved'.

Further to comment of Max Green, in future maybe no food will be ingested orally but some form of nutritious gel will be rubbed on the skin and absorbed transdermally. Mouth, teeth, etc. will atrophy, etc.

WEF - Stakeholder Capitalism - by Klaus Schwab

"The stakeholder concept goes a long way back: more than 50 years. I first wrote about it in 1971, when I was a young business academic. But its roots go even further. In the 1950s and 1960s, it was quite natural for a company and its CEO to consider not just shareholders, but everyone who as a 'stake' in the success of a firm.

That is the core of stakeholder capitalism: it is a form of capitalism in which companies do not only optimize short-term profits for shareholders, but seek long term value creation, by taking into account the needs of all their stakeholders, and society at large."

http://www.weforum.org/agenda/2021/01/klaus-schwab-on-what-is-stakeholder-capitalism-history-relevance/

Diver Dan

Talking of banks and ATMs. My usual food shopping yesterday, and I went to the usual ATM for cash. Not working. So, went to the only other one in the shopping centre where I would have to pay a fee to use it - gone, removed.

So, paid for the groceries with the Visa card, intending to get out cash in the afternoon from another ATM I pass on my daily walks. On its screen was a sign saying that 'cash was important, and Amguard was doing its very best to provide it'. It would cost me $3 for the privilege of using the machine.

So, went through the process, hit the final button, only to be advised that 'Your transaction could not be completed'.

All the arseholes from the WEF down will gradually prevent us from using cash no matter what we think; and every electronic transaction will have a fee; and every transaction will be tracked.

Alan B/Max Green/RHosty and suspiciously Armchair Critic.

Your a greedy animal . I’ve pulled you up on this one multiple times in the past. Using my superior knowledge and abilities and assimilation techniques of syntax comparisons, I’ve identified your posts in the past under multiple pseudonyms.

If you find the temptation towards dishonesty too hard to bear, then for the sake of the rest of us on this site, be brief, there’s a good fellow: That’d be a breath of fresh air!

Dan.

ttbn Thank you.

The secrets and Government protections of the financial Industry, particularly banks, is lower down than criminal. Who’s side are any of them on is obviously not us. Observe the abortion the property market is for ruthless plunder.

But there is worse than a cashless society , that is a society that randomly wakes in the morning to an empty bank account. Plundered by cyber bandits.

Banks are subject to over fifty percent of cyber attacks of all kinds. An increase of over three hundred percent in the past two years.

I attempted this morning to attach a two part authentication to my internet banking account but alas the bank don’t provide it: So now I sit and wait for the inevitable to happen.

Dan,

Dear Dan,
I speak for myself and am not associated with of those names - any patterns you see are a product of your own fevered imagination.

I'm given 350 words per post - so I'll use them if I need to.

However, for the sake of everyone's Superanuation I can only warn you to get your money out of livestock and coal. Both are going down in the next 10 to 15 years.

Coal
https://youtu.be/fsnkPLkf1ao

Livestock
https://youtu.be/g6gZHbfK8Vo

David, you're lack of normal human empathy allows us to understand What makes you such an uncaring "bar steward". With no discernable moral compass.

I'm glad they are phasing out cage farming for all animals. And stacking and racking humans instead, into smaller and smaller spaces.

In Tokyo, e.g., There are places where rented spaces not much larger than a coffin are rolled out of a communal wall as serviced sleeping spaces/accommodation for a less well off, unhoused demographic.

They roll them out, get in, don eye covers and earphones. Hit the return button and the bed retracts back into the wall, with the tenant inside until the timer pushes the whole contraption back out again.

The cruelty which is caged farming is well known, indisputable and something I wouldn't wish on a dog!

That you're apparently ok with it explains why you are such a, I believe, low life, deadbeat, despicable (sub)human. And someone I wouldn't piss on even if you were of fire.

A log of wood would demonstrate more natural human compassion.

Y'all have a nice day now y'hear.
Alan B.

That delusional Dan empathizes with, I believe (jack boot) David (DDDD) (Double delusional despicable dropkicks) demonstrates a, I believe, (neo-Nazi like) bird of the feather, who has few if any redeeming normal human characteristics.

I have only one online ID, that you think different, makes one believe, (Graham Young NB.) you judge other by your own flawed standards. (Multiple online IDs.)
Alan B.

When someone has successfully interviewed some chooks to see how they feel about their lodgings I will listen. In the meantime, cage chooks live longer; the majority of barn chooks with outdoor access mainly stay inside.

One person I will not listen to is Alan B, who recently said that he prefers dogs to to most human beings, yet has the gall to call David L inhumane. People who prefer animals over people, or attribute human characteristics to animals, are invariably social misfits and weirdos.

Oh Gawd... not this crap again Sherlock (your new name).
You can assume all you want, I don't care.

I'm not going to defend myself twice, but I'll make fun of your nutcracker paranoid lunacy instead.
Go and get your head checked, PLEASE.

As someone raised mostly on farms, dairy, potatoes and eggs. I completely agree with Max Green, decent normal human being's take on this one!
Alan B.

As for me, I would rather be free even if that meant a 10%-12% annual death rate and 10.5% reduction in my egg production.

Given the descriptions by my previous commentators about artificial electric food, food being replaced by nutritional gel over the skin along atrophy of mouse and teeth, and the absence of cash with enforcement of electronic transactions, I join Max Green in advising that staying alive is a bad investment, the value of which has already peaked in the second half of the 20th century and will be going way down in the next 10 to 15 years.

Basically, like his climate-Denial, David L is CHERRY-PICKING! As Gomer Pyle used to say, "Surprise surprise surprise!" Yes - some free range farms perform worse for the chickens than caged, because there is a LEARNING PERIOD! Denying this is as honest as anti-nukes that just chant "Chernobyl and Fukushima" or go on about expense by chanting "Hinkley C". Really helps make your case when you just turn a blind eye to 90% of the rest of the DATA!

So YES - the learning period when farmers adapt can be rough on chooks.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/animalia/wp/2017/06/15/many-people-think-cage-free-life-is-better-for-hens-its-not-that-simple/

But the rewards after adapting and learning are scientifically verified.

"The study

A report looking at egg production and welfare of hens in different housing systems, published in Poultry Science, conducted an experiment. Groups of 40 hens were randomised to conventional cage, enriched cage and free range. All conditions were the same for all the hens except the housing system. They followed the birds for 50 weeks, and after, compared each group on multiple factors.

Benefits

The report showed the benefits of the free-range system were more than just welfare issues. The eggs produced per day and egg mass were better in the free-range system. Hens had better feather scores, shorter claw length and stronger bones. Free-range hens had lower indicators of fear and stress in their blood. Additionally, there was less death and body wounds in free-range hens. These all show positive effects for free-range hens on their overall individual comfort and care."
https://blogs.unimelb.edu.au/sciencecommunication/2018/08/24/chicken-science-is-free-range-all-its-cracked-up-to-be/

But why let science get in the way of a conspiracy theory? As they say, "Haters gon hate". Why let reality in on David L's world - it might give him something less to rant about

I'd trust the RSPCA and a host of scientific experts before David L on matters of animal welfare. This is an extract from the RSPCA's analysis:

"The overwhelming consensus among animal welfare experts is that the welfare of hens in battery cages is severely compromised."

for more, see here:

https://kb.rspca.org.au/knowledge-base/what-is-the-rspcas-view-on-battery-cages/

Man needs food.
And most of this comes from animal and plant life.
Of necessity, as we gather food we must have some impact on that life.
Wisdom suggests that, while doing so, we minimise any impact we do have?
We need to be careful what we do, and how we do it?
Above all, we need not, and should not, be cruel to animals when we source food.
Anything which minimises unnecessary stress to them is to be applauded?
Deprivation of liberty, even for 'lowly' animals, is to be frowned upon?
Anything which leads us towards a less 'invasive' approach is beneficial?
The reality is that other animals have a much healthier and proportionate way of living off the land?
Maybe we should learn from them?

Hi Ipso,
as an EcoModernist I want to reduce our reliance on the land - not increase it.

Fermented food could reduce our use of land down to mining. Imagine grazing and pasturelands going back to nature? That's 30% of the non-ice surface of the land. Imagine crops being replaced by fermented carbs that mimic corn and rice and wheat? That's the final 12%. Fruit and veg and herbs and spices take up hardly any land at all. We'll still use those for flavour. Maybe.

But imagine we cook up most of what we eat in big vats.

Imagine returning all those farmlands to natural ecosystems.
Imagine 3 TRILLION trees growing back.
Imagine them soaking up all that carbon.
As solar gets cheaper and bankrupts coal in the next decade - and as the human race domesticates the microcosm of yeasts and learns to genetically engineer the yeast to produce the infinite varieties of proteins we'll need - some here who farm the old fashioned way will go bankrupt. Or at least have to find a new line of work.

"Hasbeen" farms? Oh well. I tried to warn him.

The fermented proteins we make will be infinite in variety - whatever we choose to make - more combinations of proteins available than atoms in the universe! And vast-grown steaks and burger patties will be 10 to 20 times cheaper than real steak - and maybe even taste better also.

The welfare of hens in cages is "severely compromised"? We are expected to believe that because "experts" said so? Where is the evidence?

All we get are lectures. No proof.

Just because we would like to live in a cage doesn't mean chooks are even able to think about such things. Their tiny heads are useful for eating and clucking, not thinking, feeling or philosophising.

David Leyonhjelm is a qualified vet, if anyone is interested.

Poor o’l Al, lands himself on three landing strips with the same mail bag. Jingle bells!

Having actually worked on poultry farms, I can give an intelligent opinion.
Caged birds are not generally mistreated from my observation.

Since DL is a vet he would know the processes involved one would think.

Maybe there should be more consideration to humans locked in cages such as they are in long bay.

There should be a mandatory incarceration at long bay jail, of teenagers when they leave school. That would get their minds focused on something sensible, like the inhumane treatment of prisoners in solitary confinement. A chook in a cage is eons ahead of the pack.

DAN

Max Green sounds suspiciously like Paul1405 ! The same Genes ?

Careful Indy,
You might be risking being accused of also being Dan at the same time.
[Rolls eyes]

Always thought David Whathisname was a bit of an egg. Heinrich Himmler was a chicken farmer who liked to put people in cages, maybe Dave wants to follow in his footsteps. Me thinks so.

Paul - did you see this?

Think of it as electric food that bypasses photosynthesis. Electricity splits water and feeds hydrogen to bacteria - with a few fertilisers. Here's George Monbiot eating a pancake made from the stuff. 

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jan/08/lab-grown-food-destroy-farming-save-planet 

They claim it will scale up to grow protein cheaper than soybeans by 2025, and that it will cook all the proteins and fats and carbs we need, and even arrive in different flavours.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_Foods

It will be cheaper than meat in just a few years. It will replace all animal products - beef, lamb, pork, chicken and fish (with omega-3's) - in the next 10 to 15 years. It could even replace our cereal crops like wheat and corn and rice. It’s 100 times more land efficient than beef, and 10 times more than our various crops. It’s going to be the biggest jump in human food security since we invented farming 10,000 years ago - and could save us from the worst aspects of climate change - the way it messes up agriculture! Indeed, with all that land being returned to nature we could probably let the 3 trillion trees we’ve cut down since Industrialisation regrow - even plant them out with droid-seed-pods and help nature along with this.

Tony Seba follows the cost curve as it becomes 100,000 times cheaper over the last 20 years. The potential proteins that can be cooked up are infinite in variety. One protein is 1000 times sweeter than sugar cane. We can make spider-silk for building materials this way. http://youtu.be/g6gZHbfK8Vo

The Chinese are working on another route - a chemical way to cook up sugary starches used for both food and cardboard etc. In keeping with the "Ferming" above, I call this one "Starching". http://youtu.be/e2SsheLN1t8 

They sound like some gifts from Science Fiction. Worth keeping an eye on!

A crap pancake beats a sh!t sandwich anyway! I do believe the famous Professor Nichonpoop is working on a quail that lays an egg the size of an ostrich. He's starting with an emu and working his way down. With a $20 million government grant the good professor believes his ground breaking research being conducted in Monte Carlo should be completed by 2057! The professor said even earlier if red has long winning streak at the roulette table!

One last thing - want to SEE what this food looks like? Here's a bao bun cooked mostly from the stuff.

http://youtu.be/DsgpUxec5dY

"What is it like to cook bao buns made with Solein? Watch how we steamed milky, fluffy bao buns made with Solein dairy alternative, and filled them with some crispy teriyaki-glazed Solein imitation meat alternative strips, Solein alternative mayonnaise dressing and crunchy, pickled and julienned veg wrapped in a shiso leaf. Our top chef Sebastian Borg describes it as a perfect balance of soft and crunchy, sweet and salty, sour and umami.

The future of food is one where you can still fill your buns with all the foods you know and love.

Solein, the protein made out of thin air, is an exceptionally functional ingredient. It can taste like anything you add it to, making it an ideal ingredient for the dishes you know and love."

Here's ice cream
http://youtu.be/0-Ir0wwtTps

Here are cake-pops
http://youtu.be/xOxlXMzCPIU

Looks good Max,

Does it come in chocolate?

Hi Paul,
this is just the start of this adventure.

"Exciting times lie ahead for Solar Foods, as the Finnish-based startup announced its protein “made from air” has received regulatory approval from the Singapore Food Agency (SFA).

The firm announced that its microbial protein-rich powder, which essentially blends microbes, gases, and nutrients, will go into commercial production and sales in 2024.

“I’d compare this to the discovery of the potato: we are introducing an entirely new ingredient to the world of food. It’s a watershed moment for how we think of what we eat,” said CEO Pasi Vainikka.

“This is also a huge day for us as a company. The food revolution we have been working towards for years has taken a major step forward and we are highly excited about the prospect of bringing Solein to the market in Singapore.”

Available in a fine, yellow powder, Solein contains around 65% protein, with an amino acid profile similar to soy; 20 to 35% carbohydrates; 5 to 10% fat; and is a source of vitamin A, B and iron.

Its neutral flavour profile, with hints of umami and no off-taste, trumps other plant-based proteins, such as pea, that can have strong secondary flavours, requiring masking agents, the company said.

“Solein is a versatile protein that has an enormous number of functions,” said Shilei Zhang, the firm’s chief commercial officer.

“You can use it as a structure-forming ingredient to produce many different textures and tastes that would have a protein component in them, in sauces, spreads, beverages, noodles or pasta, baked goods, or in foods to replace meat, dairy, or eggs.”
https://www.ingredientsnetwork.com/singapore-becomes-first-country-to-greenlight-news119324.html

Max here: so at this stage Solein sounds like discovering the "microbial potato" and they're still adapting it into mash, roast chips, fries, packet crisps and other applications like toppings for pies.

But Tony Seba talks about how these yeasts can be genetically modified to produce ANY protein chains we can imagine. In that case, this is more like food as an 'app'. Just depends how you program it!

Hi Max,

Seriously, we need to look at alternate methods of world food production. With population growth and climate change negatively impacting traditional methods of production, new alternatives must be found asap. The Chinese are looking at a number of methods at the moment. The way Australia's agricultural is heading due to CC maybe some of our 'Old Fart' deniers can come up with some alternatives, but I doubt it!

Dear Paul,

«maybe some of our 'Old Fart' deniers can come up with some alternatives, but I doubt it!»

Yes: stop this human population growth, the root cause of the deterioration of our quality of life, of regimentation by government laws and regulations, of being forced to turn away from nature and become slaves of technology, and well, if you believe in "climate change" then of that too.

To all the anti caged chook devotees. A quick lesson in reproductive biology. As already explained by David Leyonhjelm.

Chooks in cages lay more eggs.
It is a fact that when animals are under stress, their reproductive systems suffer. It happens to humans, high producing cows are harder to get pregnant, it also happens to chooks. The fact that caged chooks produce more eggs than all the others is a direct result of the fact that they are under less stress. They are generally in a controlled environment, free from all the other stresses thrust upon their fellows, nothing else to do but lay eggs.

Incidentally, they are also fed a similar diet to the rest of the chook world.

Wake up to yourselves.

David

Nobel Prize winner Dr. Konrad Lorenz, said:

"The worst torture to which a battery hen is exposed is the inability to retire somewhere for the laying act. For the person who knows something about animals it is truly heart-rending to watch how a chicken tries again and again to crawl beneath her fellow cagemates to search there in vain for cover."

Dr. Michael Appleby, one of the world's leading poultry welfare experts, writes:

"Battery cages present inherent animal welfare problems, most notably by their small size and barren conditions. Hens are unable to engage in many of their natural behaviors and endure high levels of stress and frustration. Cage-free egg production, while not perfect, does not entail such inherent animal welfare disadvantages and is a very good step in the right direction for the egg industry."

VK3AUU, like battery hens you haven't got a leg to stand on. As for Leyonhjelm the less said the better.

Quod scripsi, scripsi
David