I’m not sure I’m in agreeance with the negative opine of the author PS.

His is an argument from a false understanding of the role designed for Christianity by God.
Assuming there is an acknowledgement among unbelievers here, that Christians are actually believers in the existence of God in its current theological offering: otherwise they are not Christians: Evidence of the practical use of religion and it’s theology.

I disagree with Yuyuu , I’m a believer in the critical usefulness of anthropologists, Archaeologists and other allied sciences, to trace the progress of humankind over time.

Obviously the world in which we live now has little resemblance to earlier times, in this debate, to the relevance of religion and personal belief in it, or not, whatever.

So onwards. As a Christian, I criticise the author for his apparent lack of faith. Does he not understand the meaningful words of Christ when referring to the wide and the narrow road?
The numbers of converts to Christianity are predicted to be low.

What is and isn’t important to spiritual progress of the Christian, is not applicable to worldly accumulation, the opposite is true. Clearly this is a teaching of Christ.
Our obligation as Christians is to find the door to the Kingdom of Heaven through his teaching.

I think I understand that to be the position of Yuyutsu. A further obligation is to let the light shine out in our personal behaviour, not with any intention to glorify ourselves, but to reflect the righteousness of the God of our belief. But as Paul said, you will constantly fail.
Living a righteous and just life is made all the harder by our surroundings.

Even Christ doubted his God on the cross; My God, why hast though foresaken me?
If it was tough for him, how much harder for his followers?

And finally I refer to the gem; Let the dead bury the dead!
Christians will have limited ability to combat the evil, and can only use the tool of righteousness, symbolic of their God!

Dan

Dear Dan,

«Even Christ doubted his God on the cross; My God, why hast though foresaken me?»

Christ was never forsaken - that is just a mistranslation of the Aramaic.
What Jesus actually said was "My God, My God, it is for this moment that I was spared".
http://bibleconcepts.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Mistranslation-02-on-03-02-19.pdf

«I disagree with Yuyuu , I’m a believer in the critical usefulness of anthropologists, Archaeologists and other allied sciences, to trace the progress of humankind over time.»

I never claimed that these were useless, only that they have little to do with religion. They can study many human behaviours, including superstition, but not religion.

«I think I understand that to be the position of Yuyutsu. A further obligation is to let the light shine out in our personal behaviour, not with any intention to glorify ourselves, but to reflect the righteousness of the God of our belief.»

Correct. This is a good way to bring you closer to God.

«But as Paul said, you will constantly fail.»

Paul was right - you will indeed fail so long as you think that you as human are the good doer and the righteous one rather than humbly recognise that God is working and manifesting through your human costume.

.

Dear Yuyutsu,

.

I wrote :

«I find it incomprehensible that he [you, Yuyutsu] should laud narcissism to the point of attributing it to his [your] ideal of deity »

And you replied :

« Narcissism is the grotesque aggrandising of that which is not grand, of that which is limited, finite and perishable. So no, this is not my model »
.

Having had many discussions with you over the years, Yuyutsu, my comment reflects the overall impression I have of how you conceive of your God :

« an indescribable God in which each human being participates, communicating by prayer and ritual, not requesting favours, but worshiping and submitting oneself to him/her/etc. as his/her/etc’s faithful servant.

Sometimes you complicate things, Yuyutsu, by adding that each one of us is God, and sometimes you comment, as you did in your last post to diver dan :

“This is a good way to bring you closer to God” – whereas, in your last post to me, you had written : “Since we already ARE God, there is no need to "become" ... »

Perhaps my impression is wrong but that is how I understand your concept of God, Yuyutsu, after several years of discussion with you on the subject.

Based on your indications and explanations, it appears that there is no doubt in your mind that your God appreciates all the adoration and worship his faithful servants fervently express to him – even if they are, in fact, addressing it to themselves because, as you sometimes proclaim, they (we) are all God.

Welcoming, condoning, encouraging, and enjoying expressions of adoration and worship of oneself can best be described in the English language as narcissism – though someone (and perhaps, correlatively, a God) who believes himself/herself/etc. deserving of worship is considered a "megalomaniac".

The president of North Korea, Kim Jong Un, is a good example of this, as demonstrated in the video I posted previously. Here it is again :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLVciTOtwN0&ab_channel=CNN

.

Dear Banjo Paterson,

«Based on your indications and explanations, it appears that there is no doubt in your mind that your God appreciates all the adoration and worship his faithful servants fervently express to him»

I have no idea how you arrived at this incorrect conclusion.

BP.

I intrude on the point you raise re narcissism and calling one self God. It is a very significant point . Under the Pauline teachings of Christology, calling oneself God is blasphemy, but under differing forms of Christian interpretation of the message of Christ, not such a problem.

Before this point can be cleared up, the more vexing problem of who is really the Christ, and what is his true message.
The Paulian Catholics were very possessive of this question, and banned texts from circulation which delivered a counter view.

I believe I understand Yuyutsu position, and will exercise patients for his answer before proceeding down the trail.

Dan

Dear Dan,

«calling oneself God is blasphemy»

Yes, calling oneself God while still thinking of oneself as a human, is blasphemy: surely God is not a human!

When Jesus said "I and my father are one" [John 10:30], he did not refer to that human body, Jesus of Nazareth son of Mary, but to his true identity, which is God and he knew it.

«Before this point can be cleared up, the more vexing problem of who is really the Christ, and what is his true message.»

I can only present the Hindu view:
While none of us who lives today personally met Jesus Christ, on the balance of Christ's revealed teachings, we tend to believe that Jesus Christ was an incarnation of God.

In the Bhagavad Gita, another incarnation of God, Shri Krishna said:

"Whenever there is a decline in righteousness and an increase in unrighteousness, O Arjuna, at that time I manifest Myself on earth.
To protect the righteous, to annihilate the wicked, and to reestablish the principles of dharma¹ I appear on this earth, age after age." [BG 4:7-8]

We have every reason to believe that Jesus Christ was one of these instances where God manifested Himself on earth as a human.

---
¹ roughly the equivalent of "doing the right thing", the subject of this discussion