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From what I can understand from Yuyutsu’s posts over the years, he appears to practice some form of Hindu spiritualism that embodies an indescribable God in which each human being participates. When pressed to explain the concept more fully, he invariably replies that each and every one of us is God.

I interpret this to mean that the object of the exercise is to become one with his hypothetical, indescribable God.

Yuyutsu firmly opposes the use of prayer to request anything whatsoever from the hypothetical, indescribable God – including, presumably, favours such as relieving someone’s pain and suffering, healing an incurable disease, protecting a loved one from some danger or threat of death, finding a lost child, etc.

He seems to consider that prayer should be devoted almost exclusively to the praise and worship of the hypothetical, indescribable God.

It is something of a mystery to me why such a calm, gentle, respectable, kind, and respectful person as Yuyutsu could possibly conceive of such a narcissistic, uncompassionate, hypothetical, and otherwise indescribable God.

I find it incomprehensible that he should laud narcissism to the point of attributing it to his ideal of deity.

Could a scene such as that depicted in the following video possibly be his role model ? …

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLVciTOtwN0&ab_channel=CNN

I hope not.

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Dear Banjo and Yuyutsu,

Have either of you thought that God is a human invention and nothing more? That seems to me the simplest explanation for any supernatural entities.

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Dear david f.

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You ask :

« Have either of you [Yuyutsu and me] thought that God is a human invention and nothing more? »
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Yes, I think I made it clear “that God is a human invention” in my post to diver dan at the top of page 5 of this thread.

However, I don’t think I would add “and nothing more”. I think there is a lot more to be said about that.

In my experience, there are occasions when people refuse to accept reality and deny its existence. There are other occasions when people affirm the existence of something that does not correspond to reality at all.

While I am willing to believe that many, if not most, of those who continue to promote the concept of deity as reality are of good faith (no pun intended), I suspect that there are others who are not so honest and are simply lying.

Religious zealots, for example, tend to take their desires for reality and have to be reminded regularly that there is no empirical evidence of the existence of any God or gods. That it's pure speculation. It would nevertheless be wrong to accuse them of lying. They honestly believe that deity does exist.

As for those who know better and are simply lying, I tend to reserve my judgment until I am reasonably satisfied that their motives are honourable.

It's sad, but I have to admit it : there are some people who simply cannot cope with the truth and need to hear what they have been led to believe all their lives.

That reminds me that when I was young, a girl I met at a party at a friend's place one evening asked me to say that I loved her. When I replied that we hardly knew each other she said “that doesn’t matter, say you love me. Go on, say it. Say you love me. Even if it’s not true. Say you love me. I want to hear it”.

I didn’t, and she cried.

I never saw her again.

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Dear Banjo,

I was also told, "Tell me you love me even if you don't mean it." It is sad. I apologise. I should not have included you in my question.

Finding one's way to God is like finding one's way to the tooth fairy. I cannot take a person seriously who makes such a statement. It is not a purposeful lie, but it means that person lives in a fantasy world, a fantasy world shared by many people. People with such a fantasy want others to find substance in such a fantasy and then complain when you don't see the substance in their nonsense or find its value..

People may have what fantasies they will. However, it is a bit much when they want you to share their fantasy.

My life has been clouded by the fact that my mother was an alcoholic and a liar. I wrote a piece of fiction about a mother who was a liar. It was actually published, and I was paid for it. The money didn't make up for not having a mother I could trust - that I could believe.

One all encompassing evil about belief in a supernatural religion is that it's a blatant lie. Descartes in his 'cogito, ergo sum' wanted to establish a basis for reality even though he managed to use it to justify the fantasy of the society in which he lived.

Dear Banjo Paterson,

«I interpret this to mean that the object of the exercise is to become one with his hypothetical, indescribable God.»

Since we already ARE God, there is no need to "become". There is however the need to lift the veil of ignorance that makes us forget this simple Truth - and that is the role of religion.

«Yuyutsu firmly opposes the use of prayer to request anything»

Not quite: prayers of request are valid for beginners since they strengthen our connection with God, open our hearts and replace the arrogant thoughts of "I can do it alone", but these requests become more refined as we mature, less selfish, for the wellbeing of all, and culminating in "Thy will be done".

«I find it incomprehensible that he should laud narcissism to the point of attributing it to his ideal of deity.»

Narcissism is the grotesque aggrandising of that which is not grand, of that which is limited, finite and perishable. So no, this is not my model.

And "deity"? It was you who introduced deities into this discussion, not I!

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Dear David F.,

«Have either of you thought that God is a human invention and nothing more?»

No, because all human inventions are necessarily finite.

«That seems to me the simplest explanation for any supernatural entities.»

Well it seems that you are changing the topic:
God is not a being, let alone a supernatural being.

In fact, the term "supernatural being" is self contradictory: all beings are part of nature, regardless whether or not humans are able to see them or otherwise sense their presence.

Suppose for a moment that there are indeed such beings who are more capable and knowledgeable than humans: still they would be limited and part of nature, thus worshiping them would have little to do with religion and be much like a pet circumambulating their human master in hope of small favours.

When Yuyutsu is questioned about the imaginary entity called God he refuses to accept any description or designation. He maintains God is not an entity, a being or anything else we can describe by language.

Words of Wittgenstein come to mind:

“Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent.”

Ludwig Wittgenstein, Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus