I'm not sure how well this suggestion will be received by the PLO. Given any final agreement needs to involve them and not one simply imposed by the Saudis or others outside the affected Populations, Jews and Arabs!

But with goodwill, could be a starting point for a negotiated, two state solution?
Alan B.

I don't have a visual artistic talent, my drawings would probably look like those of an 8 year old, but seeing the article's picture of all-smiles-2022, I wish I had the talent to complement it with a picture of an all-horror-2023:

On the left side, Israel terrified as it is pushed drowning into the Mediterranean sea.
On the right side, where the former kingdom of Jordan once stood, now betrayed from the inside by these so-called "Palestinian" Syrians, former ophthalmologist Bashar Assad is all smiles as his allied Iranian and Russian troops kill Israeli men and children with their bayonets and rape their women and girls.

A "Hashemite Kingdom of Palestine" in 2022 means the return of Greater Syria in 2023, protectorate of Russia, including all that today is Israel, Jordan, Lebanon as well as parts of Iraq and Turkey, this is what the so-called "Palestinians" always wanted!

#Alan B

I believe you can gauge how well this Saudi plan has been received by the PLO by the fact that it has been completely silent at the news and not uttered one word in anger or protest.

Abbas is very quick to knock plans on the head - shooting down the Trump Plan before it was even released.

And guess what - Hamas has not come out screaming and shouting either.

You can add Hezbollah to those two terrorist groups.

Something different is happening here. It has taken a long time but there are reasons to be confident this might be the solution to end 100 years of suffering by both Arabs and Jews.

#Yuyutsu

You state:

"A "Hashemite Kingdom of Palestine" in 2022 means the return of Greater Syria in 2023, protectorate of Russia, including all that today is Israel, Jordan, Lebanon as well as parts of Iraq and Turkey, this is what the so-called "Palestinians" always wanted!"

Like to make a little wager? Lodge your bet with a stakeholder (I don't want you to reveal your identity) and I will match your betwith the same stakeholder.

Winner take all on 31 December 2023.

Where do you get all your weird ideas from

Dear David,

Some Yiddishkeit for you:

According to the Mishna, people who fly pigeons are disqualified from witnessing in court.
But what's wrong with flying pigeons?
This is explained in http://www.sefaria.org/sheets/401617?lang=bi - They are:

"people who arrange competitions between pigeons while placing wagers on which bird will fly faster. The reason for their disqualification is that those who play games of chance do not fully relinquish ownership of their gambling money, as they expect to win their bet. Consequently, one who accepts money in such circumstances has effectively taken something that the giver has not wholeheartedly handed over, and he is therefore like a robber, at least by rabbinic decree."

#Yuyutsu

We are not flying pigeons. You are flying a kite full of rips and tears.

When you choose to ignore the message and try to shoot down the messenger it is clear that you have thrown in the towel and have no answer to the message I sent you:
"Where do you get all your weird ideas from?"

Dear David,

I have fallen into your verbal trap once before, so I am now more vigilant.

Answering that type of question ("Where do you get all your weird ideas from?") is akin to answering the question "have you stopped beating your wife?", damned however answered. My ideas are not weird - yours are, both your idea of handing the West Bank (or parts thereof) to Jordan who doesn't want it, as well as your recent ridiculous idea to seduce me to gamble.

But I do take some good ideas from Judaic sources, such as the idea that gambling is wrong and akin to robbery. I just wonder: if you think that all these Rabbis are weird and wrong, then why would you be so keen on supporting and even wanting to expand a Jewish state, which would promote their teachings with which you obviously disagree?

#Yuyutsu

You state: " My ideas are not weird - yours are, both your idea of handing the West Bank (or parts thereof) to Jordan who doesn't want it"

What is your evidence to substantiate Jordan does not want it?

The Saudi Plan issued on 8 June to create "The Hashemite Kingdom of Palestine" has not been dismissed by Jordan in anything I have read.

If you can't point to such an express denial rejecting the Saudi plan - I suggest you just go and fly a real kite. The fresh air could help clear your befuddled brain.

I do know Mohammed Bin Salman visited King Abdullah in Amman on 22 June where they warmly embraced and Abdullah bestowed the highest Jordanian civil honour on Bin Salman.

That meeting hardly looks like Abdullah is dissatisfied with Bin Salman or the Saudi proposal which pointedly talks of the "Hashemite Kingdom of Palestine" not the "State of Palestine". What do you think the words "Hashemite Kingdom" mean?

You are making no contribution to discussing what I consider to be the most significant peace proposal made since 1967.

Just think - if it actually happens - your drivel will disappear overnight. Then you will have plenty of time to fly your kite and study Judaic sources and Jewish rabbinic opinions faithfully preserved for thousands of years - although some of your Jew-hating mates here do not agree.

So mate: What evidence do you have to prove that Jordan does not want parts of the West Bank?

This is working toward a 2 state solution?

Israel resumes ambushes of workers trying to cross known gaps in Separation Barrier; soldiers fatally shoot Nabil Ghanem (53)

04 August 2022

Nabil Ghanem (53) lived in Sara, a village west of the city of Nablus. On Sunday, 19 June 2022, at around 10:00 A.M., he tried to cross through one of the gaps in the Separation Barrier near the Qalqiliyah DCO (Eyal) Checkpoint in order to enter Israel, where he worked without a permit, and collect money his employer owed him. As soon as he crossed the barbed wire fence on the eastern side of the barrier, Israeli soldiers who were lying in wait fired several shots at him and at other Palestinian workers who were with him. Ghanem was injured in the torso and was evacuated by soldiers to Meir Hospital in Kfar Saba, Israel, where he died of his wounds a short while later. Israel justified the shooting on the grounds that Ghanem had vandalized the barrier and tried to cross into Israel, and held the body until 23 June 2022.

http://www.btselem.org/firearms/20220804_killing_of_nabil_ghanem

Dear David,

May I remind you that I still did not receive a reply to my question, which I rephrase: Why are you presumably so keen about a Jewish state while having contempt for the bedrock of Judaism - the Torah, without which Israel would serve no purpose?

You often referred to the Bible, but doesn't the Bible mention again and again that Israel's ownership of the land is conditional on them keeping the Torah's commandments, that should they fail and break their part of the deal, God too will remove them from that good land?

«What is your evidence to substantiate Jordan does not want it?»

They said so.

They were burned once in Black September, nearly lost their country to Syria: as they also speak Arabic they understand what the so-called "Palestinians" really want, rather than what they say in English - to become again part of Greater Syria. They never forgave the British for separating them from their northern Syrian brethren in WWI.

See also http://foreignpolicy.com/2021/11/10/palestine-jordan-will-not-reannex-the-west-bank/

«The Saudi Plan issued on 8 June to create "The Hashemite Kingdom of Palestine" has not been dismissed by Jordan»

Because Jordanians are polite and diplomatic. There can be no benefit in shaming the Saudis in public, telling them "You are idiots".

«Mohammed Bin Salman visited King Abdullah in Amman on 22 June where they warmly embraced and Abdullah bestowed the highest Jordanian civil honour on Bin Salman.»

Why not? They have many common friendly interests, many other important issues to discuss.

«You are making no contribution to discussing what I consider to be the most significant peace proposal made since 1967.»

Whatever YOU consider, Israel made many more important peace treaties recently. The so-called "Palestinians" are weak and insignificant, so it matters almost nothing whether or not they remain hostile. Israel has much bigger and more dangerous enemies, such as Iran.

Besides, that "peace proposal" would not end in peace, but in Israel's destruction by Iran and Russia, once Jordan is handed to Syria on a silver platter.