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The Forum > Article Comments > Jordan and Israel need to act to end Jew-hatred in Jerusalem > Comments

Jordan and Israel need to act to end Jew-hatred in Jerusalem : Comments

By David Singer, published 21/4/2022

Jordan's failure to promote interfaith relations between Muslims and Jews has once again witnessed rioting on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem.

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Dear David,

"By their fruits shall ye know them" refers to people, especially people who claim to be religious. The "stench" you refer to is the stench of some such people, not of any religion they claim to have.

Claiming to be religious is cheap, and it also used to be popular, it was he fashion until recently so everybody claimed so, the good with the bad.

But does it mean anything? Well, "By their fruits shall ye know them"... Yes, many fruits are rotten, but they are not the fruits of religion, more likely they are fruits of certain social and national traditions.

«There is such a thing as a Holocaust denier. They admire some of the things that Hitler did so they deny his crimes. I don't feel your apologies for religion are any different.»

Well this only speaks of your feelings, so I take it at face value that this is how you feel.

«You find value in some of religion»

No, I find value in religion, all of it.
What you were referring to earlier is not religion, but probably some sort of contemptible social customs and beliefs.

«I understand what religion is.»

No you don't: religion is whatever path - in thought, word or deed, which leads one closer to God. Thoughts, words and deeds that do not lead one closer to God, how more so thoughts, words and deeds that take one away from God, are not religion, no matter how many dignitaries and churches endorse them. If you want, please find them some other name.

Finally, if you don't believe that anything can bring one closer to God, then that's fine - it just means that you believe that religion does not exist. You are entitled to that view, just please do not blame all the troubles of the world on something that in your view does not exist.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Saturday, 23 April 2022 11:00:15 PM
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Yuyutsu said "Here is one outcome of science - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RS-28_Sarmat"

Answer- "sometimes colloquially known in the West as the "Satan II", is a Russian liquid-fueled, MIRV-equipped super-heavy intercontinental ballistic missile (ICBM) under development by the Makeyev Rocket Design Bureau since 2009.[5][9] It is intended to replace the R-36M ICBM (SS-18 'Satan') in Russia's arsenal."

Interesting point. There's good and bad in everything I suppose.
Posted by Canem Malum, Saturday, 23 April 2022 11:11:00 PM
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Dear Yuyutsu,

I never claimed that religion does not exist. It does exist, and it is rotten.
Posted by david f, Saturday, 23 April 2022 11:36:54 PM
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Dear Yuytsu,

I certainly believe that religion exists. I believe that it exists, and it is rotten. It is a source of hate, misery, division and oppression.
Posted by david f, Saturday, 23 April 2022 11:43:43 PM
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I wrote;

«I understand what religion is.»

Yuyutsu wrote;

No you don't: religion is whatever path - in thought, word or deed, which leads one closer to God.

Dear Yuyutsu,

Buddhism is a religion. Buddhism has no need for a God. God is an invention that goes with theistic religions. Buddhism is a non-theistic religion. Other religions may contain a belief in more than one God as Roman, Greek and Norse religions did. Your limited definition of religion does not include non-theistic and polytheistic religions.

Maybe you should learn a little about religion. I understand what religion is. It is a device that humans with pre-scientific minds use to explain the universe. Humans do not become virtuous or wise when they have a scientific mind. They simply know about the inadequacies of religion. I don't know of anything that will make humanity virtuous and kind. I do know that getting rid of religion will eliminate one justification for humans not being virtuous and kind.
Posted by david f, Sunday, 24 April 2022 12:44:42 AM
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Dear David F.,

You say that Buddhism is a religion:
It is a religion for some Buddhists because it draws them closer to God (in which they may not believe, it does not matter at all).
But not for others, such as the Buddhist monks who persecute the Rohingya people, kill them, burn their homes - no, for them Buddhism does not serve as a religion.

And it is the same for the Abrahamic "religions":

For some Jews, Judaism is a religion which serves them by helping them remember God at every moment.
For other Jews, Judaism is a national power trip which in fact takes them away from God.

Christianity serves some practicing Christians, who use it to become humble, forgiving and Christ-like.
But other Christians are damaged by Christianity, which makes them arrogant, fanatic and violent against those who do not agree with their Biblical views.

Islam makes some of its followers humble, generous, devoted and self-controlled. Islam also creates violent terrorists and those who oppress women - they may be Islamic, they may believe in the theory of Allah, but for them Islam is not a religion at all, but actually draws them away from Allah.

And yes, while Hinduism is a religion for many Hindus which leads them towards the one God, no matter which god(s) happen to be their favourite(s), for many others it is a national power trip or just a pack of superstitions about how to succeed in material life.

Purification of mind and heart are necessary for coming closer to God, thus are the most important component of religion. Violence and arrogance cloud the mind and block the heart, thus draw one away from God, no matter what mental idea(s) they may hold about God.

«I never claimed that religion does not exist.»

Not explicitly, because you refer to all kinds of behaviours that have little to do with religion as "religion". Excluding that garbage, you seem to think that nothing else remains, nothing that truly leads one closer to God.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Sunday, 24 April 2022 4:13:25 AM
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