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The Forum > Article Comments > Hungary’s PM Orbán is challenging Western democracies > Comments

Hungary’s PM Orbán is challenging Western democracies : Comments

By Andris Heks, published 19/4/2022

On the right, Orbán has been close to Trump and Netanyahu and on the left to Putin and Xi Jinping, all authoritarian nationalist leaders.

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A really interesting and informative article though unfortunately contains the usual biased language. Describing his migrant policies as "radical". What nonsense. Determining who comes into your country and how is a fundamental principle everywhere in the world including Australia, with the exception of suicidal states like the USA and European Union. Insisting that a father be a man and a mother a woman was simply common sense until five minutes ago. Likewise no non-western nations would suggest otherwise. Hungary is the model that all Western nations should be looking to if they hope to survive with their culture and way of life intact. Unfortunately its never good for one man to stay in power for too long. Its intoxicating effects tend to lead to bad decision making.
Posted by Rhys Jones, Wednesday, 20 April 2022 11:40:17 AM
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Anglosphere nativist libertarian conservatives, where do their loyalties lie?

Orban, described as 'mini Putin', has managed to lose an ally in conservative Poland for not calling out Putin & Russia, hence, the Visegrad 4 has effectively collapsed.

Then for all his public animosity towards the EU (while taking taxpayer funds and disbursing to inner circles without transparency) and hyping the anti-semitic 'Soros Conspiracy' ('the great replacement') a clear majority of Hungarians prefer to stay in the EU; remaining allies are Turkey, Serbia, China, Russia (quietly), Vietnam, Central Asian Republics etc.

Meanwhile Hungary has significant emigration of youth and working age into the EU, due to Covid and now Ukraine, most will stay away permanently; making dire demographics much worse (added issue of no formal immigration, but it does exist from China, Asia & Mid East, simply not advertised); Hungary is on track to become a majority Roma or Gypsy population.

Finally, US conservative figure and Poland based Anne Applebaum called out ('foreign agent' Tony Abbott's favourite) Koch Network think tank the Danubius Institute in Budapest; along with his liaising with the UK's IEA and IPA (his advisor was a Danubius 'fellow' till Applebaum's Tweet, she was probably referring to US conservative Rod Dreher?) as follows:

'If you work for the Orban-funded Danube Institute, or are/were enjoying a fellowship there, your views on Viktor Orban and the Hungarian elections should be taken with a grain of salt and a raised eyebrow. Just saying.'

Several years ago the SMH cited Abbott in Hungary:

'former prime minister's talk of migrants "swarming across the borders in Europe", invoking the dangerous old notion of immigrants as pests or vermin.

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/why-australia-s-conservatives-are-finding-friends-in-hungary-20190924-p52uim.htm
Posted by Andras Smith, Thursday, 21 April 2022 3:57:15 AM
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Andras Smith

All you achieve with your view is to highlight the disconnect of the elitist ruling class of politics.
Politics is an opaque wall of divided opinion, who can tell where is the truth?
It’s why Politics and philosophy are academically intertwined, you would agree surely.

So down on ground level, ( ground zero), invariably the divide is reasonably neatly divided into what’s called left and right.
You shouldn’t ignore that fact, because from that reality springs it’s cousin, winners and losers.

Then the obvious question is full to the brim with confused answers; who in this argument, has the right to win and who to lose as a consequence?

Picking off little bits of both sides for criticism is an endless and fruitless task, with a heading of propaganda.
Propaganda is brimming with legitimacy but devoid of trust.

I don’t believe you!

Dan
Posted by diver dan, Thursday, 21 April 2022 6:50:19 AM
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DD: Your analysis consists solely of 'I don’t believe you!'.....
Posted by Andras Smith, Thursday, 21 April 2022 7:16:40 PM
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Further re the first post of diver dan here about leaders being labelled as autocratic outside their own countries while they are popular within - as Orban of Hungary has recently been proven to be: Apparently Vladimir Putin currently has around 80% approval rating by citizens of the Russian Federation. Intervention to help people who are largely Russian in Eastern Ukraine against bad treatment by the Kiev government have helped increase it recently. The Yanks would love it if another Boris Yeltsin type could be installed as Russian leader so they could effectively rob the people and plunder resources. His popularity was apparently down to some low single figure before he left office. Also worth noting that in the US, approval of Biden, who seems to be becoming President Al Zheimer is now down to around 38%. Then for a long time the US has been trying to label President Bashar al Assad of Syria a brutal dictator etc. They hate him because he has been most disobedient to attempted dictates from Washington. Meanwhile has remained very popular with his own people.
Posted by mox, Thursday, 21 April 2022 11:26:09 PM
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One needs to be quite ignorant or willing to avert their gaze on populist autocrats like Orban, Putin, Erdogan et al. who claim democracy and popularity by 'stacking the deck' and playing up on regional, monocultural, ageing &/or low income with socialist policies.

Crosses over with US radical right libertarian think tanks too i.e. Koch Network in Anglosphere, Hungary too (linked with several IPA/LMP types) and Koch Industries remaining invested in Russia.

Worse, Kochs have sponsored a conspiracy theorist or simple denier in Mearsheimer to claim e.g. NATO provocation (but ignoring the wishes of all Central European nations?), minimal Ukraine civilian deaths etc.

From Journalist Judd Legum:

'Koch-funded analyst raises doubts about Russian attacks on Ukrainian civilians. A foreign policy analyst with extensive ties to the non-profit network operated by Charles Koch publicly cast doubt about whether Russian forces are attacking civilians in Ukraine. The analyst, Professor John Mearsheimer, also suggested that, if Russian forces have attacked civilians, such attacks would be justified. While offering excuses for Russia, Mearsheimer appeared to pin the blame for civilian deaths on the actions of the American government'

https://popular.info/p/koch-funded-analyst-raises-doubts?s=r

'Koch group says U.S. should deliver partial "victory" to Russia in Ukraine.... Stand Together, the influential non-profit group run by right-wing billionaire Charles Koch, argues that the United States should seek to deliver a partial "victory" to Russia in Ukraine.'

https://popular.info/p/exclusive-koch-group-says-us-should?s=r
Posted by Andras Smith, Thursday, 21 April 2022 11:38:01 PM
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